Crow
28 May 2008
News / Sarkozy on Wednesday arrived in Poland to strike a strategic partnership [57]
in short, i don`t believe to France, nor in France
in short, i don`t believe to France, nor in France
Crow
28 May 2008
News / Sarkozy on Wednesday arrived in Poland to strike a strategic partnership [57]
why don`t you tell me ?
why don`t you tell me ?
Crow
28 May 2008
News / Sarkozy on Wednesday arrived in Poland to strike a strategic partnership [57]
he is true son of new/old France
once, before Roman legion`s onslaught, there was Galija. Now, its something else, spiritualy shaken and mute. With every new day, more mute
he is true son of new/old France
once, before Roman legion`s onslaught, there was Galija. Now, its something else, spiritualy shaken and mute. With every new day, more mute
Crow
28 May 2008
News / Sarkozy on Wednesday arrived in Poland to strike a strategic partnership [57]
no, no, he is more sofisticated and perfid
he probably seeks to extract some genes from Poland, to encourage Polish immigration into France for batter mix (you know what i mean). Plus, he 100% wants to see how Poles fights (and die) for France all over the globe (cannon fodder situation)
no, no, he is more sofisticated and perfid
he probably seeks to extract some genes from Poland, to encourage Polish immigration into France for batter mix (you know what i mean). Plus, he 100% wants to see how Poles fights (and die) for France all over the globe (cannon fodder situation)
Crow
28 May 2008
News / Sarkozy on Wednesday arrived in Poland to strike a strategic partnership [57]
beware Poles! Sarkozy has ministres which are involved in extraction of organs from Slavs
Sarkozy, for sure, coming to see are Poles good for organ extraction, too
look, look just how is he ugly and how he have evil eyes. He seek another Slavic victim
to put cross on myself (i hope i won`t have night mares about new/old France)
beware Poles! Sarkozy has ministres which are involved in extraction of organs from Slavs
Sarkozy, for sure, coming to see are Poles good for organ extraction, too
look, look just how is he ugly and how he have evil eyes. He seek another Slavic victim
to put cross on myself (i hope i won`t have night mares about new/old France)
Crow
27 May 2008
USA, Canada / POLISH AMERICANS AND THE 2008 US ELECTION [79]
i have two very interesting articles in case with incoming USA ellections and candidates
American Poles and all Americans of Slavic origin, please read it and think twice before you vote on ellections! Thanks in the name of pregnant woman and babies of Serbia that were killed by NATO...
BEHIND THE HEADLINES
Into the Bosnian Quagmire
By Justin Raimondo
part one: antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12874
part two: antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12895
a fragments from text...
i have two very interesting articles in case with incoming USA ellections and candidates
American Poles and all Americans of Slavic origin, please read it and think twice before you vote on ellections! Thanks in the name of pregnant woman and babies of Serbia that were killed by NATO...
BEHIND THE HEADLINES
Into the Bosnian Quagmire
By Justin Raimondo
part one: antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12874
part two: antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12895
a fragments from text...
This is an excerpt from a pamphlet published in 1996, Into the Bosnian Quagmire: The Case Against U.S. Intervention in the Balkans. We republish it now, in successive installments, because the rise of Barack Obama as the putative Democratic presidential candidate augurs the rise of a new liberal internationalism - the very same sort of policy that led us to bomb Belgrade,...
This was deemed a "humanitarian intervention": we were told that the Serbs were "ethnically cleansing" the Kosovars from their own territory, and that tens of thousands had been slaughtered. As is the case with other more recent military actions, it all turned out to be a crock: the tens of thousands dead shrunk to a few thousand, including victims from both sides in what was, after all, a civil war.
Crow
25 May 2008
USA, Canada / POLISH AMERICANS AND THE 2008 US ELECTION [79]
let me warn my Polish sisters and brothers
USA isn`t democratic state
let me warn my Polish sisters and brothers
USA isn`t democratic state
Crow
14 May 2008
News / How to form political party with Pan Slavic orrientation in Poland? [34]
when i sow word `Komitet`, first what crossed my mind was that it is atavism of some `Communist party - Komitet` which seek to revive Stalin methods in politics, something Stalin nostalgic
So this kind of approach won`t pass, nor name based on `Komitet` for Pan Slavic political party or Movement, nor some Commi nostalgia. It can`t pass in Poland, in Serbia, in any Slavic country.
If such a movement represent most loud deffender of Serbians (speaking about Kosovo issue) in front of Polish public, no wonder that Poles don`t have real picture about nature of Serbian resistance to EU pressure.
and, for sure, Moscow`s domination isn`t desirable, nor any kind of domination. I speak about cooperation between Slavs, on the fields where different Slavic countries and nations has similar or same interests
it’s called Polski Komitet Słowiański. Who do you think organized the manifestations about Kosovo in Poland? I think it’s a branch of PWN Polska Wspólnota Narodowa if I’m not mistaken and the leader of this organization is Bolesław Tejkowski.
Well if people of Tejkowski caliber are involved in such a movement it’s bound to fail. His reputation is ruined and he has been painted as Neo Nazi. Even if he was not what the media portrays him as, he can’t shake off his past. He is a communist and always was, and his views are extreme left not extreme right like his recent run-ins with the law and media. Osiol is right if it was up to him such a movement would be governed from Moscow.
when i sow word `Komitet`, first what crossed my mind was that it is atavism of some `Communist party - Komitet` which seek to revive Stalin methods in politics, something Stalin nostalgic
So this kind of approach won`t pass, nor name based on `Komitet` for Pan Slavic political party or Movement, nor some Commi nostalgia. It can`t pass in Poland, in Serbia, in any Slavic country.
If such a movement represent most loud deffender of Serbians (speaking about Kosovo issue) in front of Polish public, no wonder that Poles don`t have real picture about nature of Serbian resistance to EU pressure.
and, for sure, Moscow`s domination isn`t desirable, nor any kind of domination. I speak about cooperation between Slavs, on the fields where different Slavic countries and nations has similar or same interests
Crow
13 May 2008
News / How to form political party with Pan Slavic orrientation in Poland? [34]
i said, i`m serious. That wasn`t serious comment, Pan Osiol.
Some people like when Slavs are divided and they always remind us on our divisions. They doing so for their own foreign interests. Slavs has differences among themselves and that`s all right but, I don`t like when Slavs are divided because of antagonisms. I don`t want that Slavs extinct and, i would fight for my Slavic kind. Slavs are worth
i said, i`m serious. That wasn`t serious comment, Pan Osiol.
Some people like when Slavs are divided and they always remind us on our divisions. They doing so for their own foreign interests. Slavs has differences among themselves and that`s all right but, I don`t like when Slavs are divided because of antagonisms. I don`t want that Slavs extinct and, i would fight for my Slavic kind. Slavs are worth
Crow
13 May 2008
News / How to form political party with Pan Slavic orrientation in Poland? [34]
How to form political party with Pan Slavic orrientation in Poland? or cell of some other political party of such orrientation formed in other country?
So, how? I`m serious
Any suggestion
How to form political party with Pan Slavic orrientation in Poland? or cell of some other political party of such orrientation formed in other country?
So, how? I`m serious
Any suggestion
Crow
12 May 2008
News / China to buy 150 helicopters from Poland [47]
i pointed on old (over Warsaw pact) connections of Polish and Russian military industry. Soviets sold a lot of army products to China.
sure. NATO uses them for creation of Greater Albania down there on Serbian Kosovo.
How could Russia guarantee the quality of Polish made products?
i pointed on old (over Warsaw pact) connections of Polish and Russian military industry. Soviets sold a lot of army products to China.
These Polish helicopters have an excellent reputation.
sure. NATO uses them for creation of Greater Albania down there on Serbian Kosovo.
Crow
12 May 2008
Polonia / German nation - degradation or just deviation? Your opinions? [66]
European parts of today`s Turkey (and even parts of Anatolia), before Ottoman invasion were among other ethoses, populated with Slavs (especially Tracia). Even great deal of Greece (Greak Macedonia and also Tracia) before Ottomans was and still is populated with Slavs.
Then, during Turks, Balkan Slavs were objects of slavery (much more then Greaks). Many our children was taken. There was so called TAX IN BLOOD (Danak u krvi- on Serbian). It meant that every family was obliged to give one child for Turkish Empire (mostly for slave trade markets in Arabia/Anatolia and then some selected boys for janissaries, some girls for harems). All that contributed that Slavic blood spread across Anatolia and even Arabia. On the other side, bilogical potential of Balkan Slavs was greately weakened. We lost far too much people.
For example, by old Austran chronicles, biggest ethos from Austria to the coast of Adriatic and Black see, was Serbian ethos. Today, on Balkan- Serbs are after Romanians, maybe little more numerous then Bulgarians. [It`s about people who consider themselves as Serbians but, actualy there is about 20 mil people on Balkan who originates from Serbs and speak Serbian language but, don`t consider themselves as Serbs (or it is forbidden to them to be Serbs).]
Biggest loser of all European ethoses, because of Turkish invasion, are Serbians. We should remember that.
European parts of today`s Turkey (and even parts of Anatolia), before Ottoman invasion were among other ethoses, populated with Slavs (especially Tracia). Even great deal of Greece (Greak Macedonia and also Tracia) before Ottomans was and still is populated with Slavs.
Then, during Turks, Balkan Slavs were objects of slavery (much more then Greaks). Many our children was taken. There was so called TAX IN BLOOD (Danak u krvi- on Serbian). It meant that every family was obliged to give one child for Turkish Empire (mostly for slave trade markets in Arabia/Anatolia and then some selected boys for janissaries, some girls for harems). All that contributed that Slavic blood spread across Anatolia and even Arabia. On the other side, bilogical potential of Balkan Slavs was greately weakened. We lost far too much people.
For example, by old Austran chronicles, biggest ethos from Austria to the coast of Adriatic and Black see, was Serbian ethos. Today, on Balkan- Serbs are after Romanians, maybe little more numerous then Bulgarians. [It`s about people who consider themselves as Serbians but, actualy there is about 20 mil people on Balkan who originates from Serbs and speak Serbian language but, don`t consider themselves as Serbs (or it is forbidden to them to be Serbs).]
Biggest loser of all European ethoses, because of Turkish invasion, are Serbians. We should remember that.
Crow
12 May 2008
Polonia / German nation - degradation or just deviation? Your opinions? [66]
or maybe turkinization?
actualy, Germans or Turks, its same
German nation - degradation or just deviation?
or maybe turkinization?
actualy, Germans or Turks, its same
Crow
11 May 2008
Polonia / German nation - degradation or just deviation? Your opinions? [66]
what?
Liberation, of course
hm, remind yurself on that, when Slavs strenghten and restore their power (and- unite, eventualy).
But even then, i won`t suggest that Slavs desire something what isn`t part of Slavic world. It is well known that Slavs aren`t agressive. Most of our history we defended ourselves from hostile invaders, such are Turks, among many others.
also you didn't finish what?
what?
Liberation, of course
lands belong to nature not nations. whoever are stronger those ones live where they want to live.
hm, remind yurself on that, when Slavs strenghten and restore their power (and- unite, eventualy).
But even then, i won`t suggest that Slavs desire something what isn`t part of Slavic world. It is well known that Slavs aren`t agressive. Most of our history we defended ourselves from hostile invaders, such are Turks, among many others.
Crow
10 May 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
Not necessarily if we take `pro et contra` political reasons for discussion about ancient past of Poland. But, if we insist to operates with scientific and historic facts, that's how it is.
And, again, we are aware of politics. Why, in this particular case?
It's because, scientific facts and historic truth, almost same as falsified history, could be objects of manipulations in order to satisfy some political goal, interests of some political elite, etc, etc. [BDW, it also can be good fun]
So, we should avoid all eventual traps in our journey through Polish and Slavic past in general. We must be aware that Slavic history was too often written by those who conquered Slavs and, seams that we also must be aware of political consequences of truth. Here, transparency and public discussion could help (God bless internet!).
I vote for truth in case with Slavic (Polish) past so that our young generation's could learn and remember. Without knowledge about our own past, we can't avoid same mistakes. Not to mention, that serious examination of Slavic past can open real new frontiers in case with our knowledge of universal human past. Our past, our present, our future, all is our contribution to our kind and then to complete mankind. All counts
I wonder, if you ever heard for Sarmizegetuza?
Do we have time to remind ourselves of Sarmizegetuza for a moment, in this modern and so fast era?
Sarmizegetuza should be remembered from all Sarmatians, so i would speak about that place here, in this thread dedicated to ancient times.
It was place in today`s Romania. But, before Romania those lands were part of Sarmatia, more concrete, there was Dacia and Dacians, children of Slavia. Sarmizegetuza was capital of Dacia.
This is story about time, when population of Dacia was slain almost entirely to ground zero and replaced with new settlers with different ethnic and even different racial characteristics. That`s how branch of Sarmatians was exterminated, some of them managed to escape and some were romanized.
Let fallen Sarmatians rest in peace. Their resistance should be remembered and mentioned...
Roman soldiers building a bridge and a mountain road in Dacia, from Trajan's Column. Note the heads on pikes at the right.
Battle of Adamclisi
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adamclisi
First Battle of Tapae
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Tapae
Second Battle of Tapae
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tapae
Battle of Sarmisegetusa
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sarmisegetusa
NOTE: names of rivers
most glorious episode from Polish past by my choice
Thanks Poles for this victory!
THE BATTLE OF GRUNWALD
Jan Matejko. The Battle of Grunwald. 1878
HENRYK SIENKEWICZ, "Krzyzacy":
on Polish:
more about Zawisza Czarny, who taken part in Battle of Grunwald (read in text/link above)...
Zawisza Czarny
born in Poland, dedicated whole life to freedom of Slavdom, gave his honorable life in Serbia, for liberation of Racowie
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawisza_Czarny
Zawisza Czarny in a detail of Jan Matejko's Battle of Grunwald
memorial table and water pool dedicated to Zawisza Czarny in Serbia, banks of Danube River, old medieval fortress, where once Racowie were recruited to be sent to serve Poland
For all the Poles, a monument to Zawisza Czarny
text on the table says (translation from Serbian):
``In Golubac, his life was taken by the Turks in 1428, the famous Polish knight, the symbol of the courage and honor, Zawisza the Black. Glory to the hero!``
I thought this could be interesting for Poles here. Wanted to show you this later, in step by step elaboration but, considering that many of my posts here are deleted i giving this now as my last post in this thread...
Appendix 2, part 12: GENETIC HOMOGENEITY IN POLAND
Ploski R, Wozniak M, Pawlowski R, Monies DM, Branicki W, Kupiec T, Kloosterman A, Dobosz T, Bosch E, Nowak M, Lessig R, Jobling MA, Roewer L, Kayser M.
Human Molecular Genetics Lab, Department of Forensic Medicine, Warsaw Medical Academy, Poland
Hum Genet. 2002 Jun;110(6):592-600. Epub 2002 May 2
white-history.com/poland.htm]
the ancient history of Poland would basically go into ancient slavic history and mythology....
Not necessarily if we take `pro et contra` political reasons for discussion about ancient past of Poland. But, if we insist to operates with scientific and historic facts, that's how it is.
And, again, we are aware of politics. Why, in this particular case?
It's because, scientific facts and historic truth, almost same as falsified history, could be objects of manipulations in order to satisfy some political goal, interests of some political elite, etc, etc. [BDW, it also can be good fun]
So, we should avoid all eventual traps in our journey through Polish and Slavic past in general. We must be aware that Slavic history was too often written by those who conquered Slavs and, seams that we also must be aware of political consequences of truth. Here, transparency and public discussion could help (God bless internet!).
I vote for truth in case with Slavic (Polish) past so that our young generation's could learn and remember. Without knowledge about our own past, we can't avoid same mistakes. Not to mention, that serious examination of Slavic past can open real new frontiers in case with our knowledge of universal human past. Our past, our present, our future, all is our contribution to our kind and then to complete mankind. All counts
I wonder, if you ever heard for Sarmizegetuza?
Do we have time to remind ourselves of Sarmizegetuza for a moment, in this modern and so fast era?
Sarmizegetuza should be remembered from all Sarmatians, so i would speak about that place here, in this thread dedicated to ancient times.
It was place in today`s Romania. But, before Romania those lands were part of Sarmatia, more concrete, there was Dacia and Dacians, children of Slavia. Sarmizegetuza was capital of Dacia.
This is story about time, when population of Dacia was slain almost entirely to ground zero and replaced with new settlers with different ethnic and even different racial characteristics. That`s how branch of Sarmatians was exterminated, some of them managed to escape and some were romanized.
Let fallen Sarmatians rest in peace. Their resistance should be remembered and mentioned...
Roman soldiers building a bridge and a mountain road in Dacia, from Trajan's Column. Note the heads on pikes at the right.
Battle of Adamclisi
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adamclisi
Battle of Adamclisi was a major battle , in 92 AD when a coalition of Dacian and Rhoxolani sarmatian completely slaughtered the Legio XXI Rapax[1]
Dacian king benefited from this, and made out a plan along with the neighboring allied tribes of the Roxolans and Bastarnae, to attack south of the Danube, in the Roman province of Moesia, in an attempt to force the Romans to leave their positions in the mountains near Sarmizegetusa.
First Battle of Tapae
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Tapae
Two battles took place at Tapae under the Roman Emperor Domitian in order to protect the Roman province of Moesia, nearly two decades before the regional conquest during the Dacian wars in Trajan's reign, one in 87 AD and one in 88 AD.
Second Battle of Tapae
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tapae
The Roman army crossed the Danube at Viminacium, slowly making its way into Dacia. Just like in 87/88, the battle took place at Tapae. The Dacians resisted the Roman offensive, but as a storm broke out, the Dacians believing it is a sign from the Gods, decided to withdraw.
Battle of Sarmisegetusa
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sarmisegetusa
The Battle of Sarmisegetusa (also spelled Sarmizegethusa) was a siege of Sarmizegetusa, the capital of Dacia, fought in 106 between the army of the Roman Emperor Trajan, and the Dacians led by King Decebalus.
The Roman forces approached Sarmizegetuza in three main columns. The first column crossed the bridge built by Apollodorus of Damascus, and then followed the valleys of rivers Cerna and Timiş up to Tibiscum. They then turned on the valley of the river Bistra, through the Tara Hategului depression.
NOTE: names of rivers
Dacian treasure which, according to Jerome Carcopino (p.73), consisted of 165,000 kilograms of pure gold and 331,000 kilograms of silver in the bed of the Sergetia River (Cassius Dio 68.14).
Losses sustained in this war by the Dacians were tremendous, but the Roman army also took significant casualties in the conquest of Dacia. The first Dacian rebellion against Roman rule would coincide with the death of Trajan, in 117, showing impact the Emperor had on the Dacians after the war. Even in modern Romanian folklore (Romanians being the descendants of Romanized Dacians),...
most glorious episode from Polish past by my choice
Thanks Poles for this victory!
THE BATTLE OF GRUNWALD
Jan Matejko. The Battle of Grunwald. 1878
The battle was furious. The incessant clash of swords was like the rolling of thunder across a field. Horses whinnied and went down, throwing their masters under the hooves of other horses, and a wild confused and terrible hand-to-hand battle raged inconclusively for nearly half an hour.
HENRYK SIENKEWICZ, "Krzyzacy":
Many things have happened over the centuries - battles and meetings - but no one can remember such a terrible crushing defeat. It fell under the eyes of the Great King Jagiello, not only the Teutonic Order but the whole of Germany, whose greatest knights were in the front line of the Teutonic Order, which was more and more entering to the Slavic land...
on Polish:
Wiele bywalo w owych czasach na swiecie bitew i spotkan, ale nikt z zywych ludzi nie pamieta tak straszliwego pogromu. Padl pod stopami wielkego Krola nie tylko Zakon krzyzacki; ale i cale Niemcy, ktore najswietniejszym rycerstwem wspomagaly ona "przednia straz" teutonska, wzerajaca sie coraz glebiej w cialo slowianskie...
more about Zawisza Czarny, who taken part in Battle of Grunwald (read in text/link above)...
Zawisza Czarny
born in Poland, dedicated whole life to freedom of Slavdom, gave his honorable life in Serbia, for liberation of Racowie
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawisza_Czarny
Zawisza Czarny in a detail of Jan Matejko's Battle of Grunwald
Zawisza Czarny z Garbowa (Zawisza the Black of Garbów, also known as The Black Knight; c. 1379 in Stary Garbów, Poland - 1428 in Golubac, Serbia), Sulima Coat of Arms, was a famous Polish mediæval knight and diplomat.
...in 1428 during the Battle of Golubac on the Danube (Serbia) he was captured by the Turks and probably murdered.
Zawisza became for many Poles one of the most popular folks heroes thank to his exceptional bravery and proverbial reliability and loyalty. Famous is the Polish saying: "Polegaj jak na Zawiszy" (Rely on him like on Zawisza). This motto also became part of the Polish Scouts oath.
memorial table and water pool dedicated to Zawisza Czarny in Serbia, banks of Danube River, old medieval fortress, where once Racowie were recruited to be sent to serve Poland
For all the Poles, a monument to Zawisza Czarny
text on the table says (translation from Serbian):
``In Golubac, his life was taken by the Turks in 1428, the famous Polish knight, the symbol of the courage and honor, Zawisza the Black. Glory to the hero!``
I thought this could be interesting for Poles here. Wanted to show you this later, in step by step elaboration but, considering that many of my posts here are deleted i giving this now as my last post in this thread...
Appendix 2, part 12: GENETIC HOMOGENEITY IN POLAND
Ploski R, Wozniak M, Pawlowski R, Monies DM, Branicki W, Kupiec T, Kloosterman A, Dobosz T, Bosch E, Nowak M, Lessig R, Jobling MA, Roewer L, Kayser M.
Human Molecular Genetics Lab, Department of Forensic Medicine, Warsaw Medical Academy, Poland
Hum Genet. 2002 Jun;110(6):592-600. Epub 2002 May 2
white-history.com/poland.htm]
The relative homogeneity and lack of outside or non-European influence in Poland has been confirmed by genetic research
Crow
10 May 2008
Polonia / German nation - degradation or just deviation? Your opinions? [66]
you had come to consume the Garden, violently
what you expected? you know, you still hold what isn`t yours and inspite that it is you who are agressive. We didn`t finish, obviously
treated turks in their troops nicely as well. all countries in the region did their best to make minorities escape.
you had come to consume the Garden, violently
what you expected? you know, you still hold what isn`t yours and inspite that it is you who are agressive. We didn`t finish, obviously
Crow
3 May 2008
News / EU a beacon of light for the World to follow [85]
question was- Why?
Crow:
Question of evening- Do you know, why is this future of EU?
No, what is the future of the EU?
Question of evening- Do you know, why is this future of EU?
No, what is the future of the EU?
question was- Why?
Crow
3 May 2008
Crow
3 May 2008
News / EU a beacon of light for the World to follow [85]
This is future of EU...
Upper photo: French national team 1959
Lower photo: French national team 2008
Question of evening- Do you know, why is this future of EU?
I would explain but, in the meanwhile, think and try to give answer (anyone)
This is future of EU...
Upper photo: French national team 1959
Lower photo: French national team 2008
Question of evening- Do you know, why is this future of EU?
I would explain but, in the meanwhile, think and try to give answer (anyone)
Crow
3 May 2008
History / Significance of May 3rd in Poland [21]
whatever you say man, whatever. I just expressed my oppinion. You have your thoughts
there was thread didicated to ancient Polish history, which motivated me to talk about things but, now i won`t insist.
Crow, I have to disagree with your "Slavic references".
whatever you say man, whatever. I just expressed my oppinion. You have your thoughts
there was thread didicated to ancient Polish history, which motivated me to talk about things but, now i won`t insist.
Crow
2 May 2008
History / Significance of May 3rd in Poland [21]
Fact is that so called `Golden Freedom` gave unrestricted privileges for nobilities (szlachta) and Sejm (Polish Parlament) but limited competences of king.
Few interesting facts about `schlachta system`:
- The king must convene the Sejm (Polish parliament) at least every two years for six weeks,
- The king had no right to create new taxes, tariffs or such without approval of the Sejm,
- The king had no right to call a pospolite ruszenie (mobilisation of armed forces) without approval of the Sejm,
- The king had no right to declare war or peace without approval of the Sejm
I would say, nice example of attempt for restriction of possible king`s absolutism. To say in very very short, power was redirected in dirrection of nobility which needed to be link between king and people.
Considering historical momentum, we must admit that attempt was for admiration. Maybe naive attempt but for sure in accordance with long Polish (Slavic in general) tendency to live in free/democratic society.
As for Jews, that you mentioned. Yes, they were considered as class of traders and they had their privileges.
BDW, did you know that some linguists connects `Greek word` AGORA with Slavic word GORA (circle in forest where ancients/druids debated)
King was only pawn in game for authorities of magnates.
But, I insist that `schlachta` wasn`t `degenerated`. More appropriate explanation would be that system was already `deformed` because of constant pressure on Poland (Slavic world in general).
To understand `schlachta` you must seek to connect it with system which existed in Panonia (land of masters- Pan`s land, also Pan- master of the woods in mithology), in Great Moravia which precedes Poland.
If i were to sum up all data that i sow on topic it would lead me to conclusion that old Slavic Warlords (predominantly from Polish cultural area- Pan`s!) retreated on territory of Poland after destruction of Great Moravia. They, tried to restore `old glory` , `might of once vast civilization` and designated themselves as Sarmatians (once universal name for all Slavs). So, Polish tradition preserved memory on `Sarmatian schlachta`.
We must understand that `schlachta` was obviously, as I mentioned, based on traditional Polish (Slavic) political doctrine (on different morale values, natural, tribal, essence of true freedom and democracy). That doctrine once was very sucessfull, let`s say in time of glorious/prosperious days of Slavic civilization, in time when our ancestors used to spread knowladge of agriculture and consolidated on vast territory from Europe to the Eurasia and Asia. Such a system has its roots in society of so called ARIETS or to say ARYANS. Maybe even before them, in the begginings, in the morning of our Sarmatian (those who are borthers, collectors) - Slavic (those who are able to speak and understand each others)- Raseni (those who are of White/Red/Rose race, who are `cousins` by same race) kind.
Long period of time (for even thousends of years) such a system (or similar- which maybe in time of schlachta already was deformed in futile attempts of reform in agony) existed and was functional. Then, things changed in global enviroment, any attempt for reform of old and traditional political system on enormous territory (`schlachta` system as reflection of it) was very limited and needed a lot of time. But obviously, our ancestors didn`t have time, they were defeated and divided from advancing agressive newcomers, enslaved.
Then, history was written by winners and today we seek to collect puzzles of historical traces. Path of our civilization was violantly stooped/cut in one historical moment and we- `children of garden` seek to found answers, scent, to continue.
More anarchy than any constructive parliamentary monarchy, giving political rights to some 10% of the entire population only (nobles and to some extend Jews) .
Fact is that so called `Golden Freedom` gave unrestricted privileges for nobilities (szlachta) and Sejm (Polish Parlament) but limited competences of king.
Few interesting facts about `schlachta system`:
- The king must convene the Sejm (Polish parliament) at least every two years for six weeks,
- The king had no right to create new taxes, tariffs or such without approval of the Sejm,
- The king had no right to call a pospolite ruszenie (mobilisation of armed forces) without approval of the Sejm,
- The king had no right to declare war or peace without approval of the Sejm
I would say, nice example of attempt for restriction of possible king`s absolutism. To say in very very short, power was redirected in dirrection of nobility which needed to be link between king and people.
Considering historical momentum, we must admit that attempt was for admiration. Maybe naive attempt but for sure in accordance with long Polish (Slavic in general) tendency to live in free/democratic society.
As for Jews, that you mentioned. Yes, they were considered as class of traders and they had their privileges.
BDW, did you know that some linguists connects `Greek word` AGORA with Slavic word GORA (circle in forest where ancients/druids debated)
"Degenerated" is the best expression for what it was in the 18th century.
I cannot find any arguments which would justify supposed "backwardness". However it was degenerated indeed, liberum veto practically blocked possibility of necessary reforms. While foreign agents could easily bribe just one MP to block some initiatives which could make the commonwealth stronger.
King was only pawn in game for authorities of magnates.
But, I insist that `schlachta` wasn`t `degenerated`. More appropriate explanation would be that system was already `deformed` because of constant pressure on Poland (Slavic world in general).
To understand `schlachta` you must seek to connect it with system which existed in Panonia (land of masters- Pan`s land, also Pan- master of the woods in mithology), in Great Moravia which precedes Poland.
If i were to sum up all data that i sow on topic it would lead me to conclusion that old Slavic Warlords (predominantly from Polish cultural area- Pan`s!) retreated on territory of Poland after destruction of Great Moravia. They, tried to restore `old glory` , `might of once vast civilization` and designated themselves as Sarmatians (once universal name for all Slavs). So, Polish tradition preserved memory on `Sarmatian schlachta`.
And there is no way around it - it used to work perfectly in Jagellonian times due to the high moral standards and patriotism of ruling elite.
I always asked was how wold it have worked if not for outside interference from C17 onwards.
We must understand that `schlachta` was obviously, as I mentioned, based on traditional Polish (Slavic) political doctrine (on different morale values, natural, tribal, essence of true freedom and democracy). That doctrine once was very sucessfull, let`s say in time of glorious/prosperious days of Slavic civilization, in time when our ancestors used to spread knowladge of agriculture and consolidated on vast territory from Europe to the Eurasia and Asia. Such a system has its roots in society of so called ARIETS or to say ARYANS. Maybe even before them, in the begginings, in the morning of our Sarmatian (those who are borthers, collectors) - Slavic (those who are able to speak and understand each others)- Raseni (those who are of White/Red/Rose race, who are `cousins` by same race) kind.
Long period of time (for even thousends of years) such a system (or similar- which maybe in time of schlachta already was deformed in futile attempts of reform in agony) existed and was functional. Then, things changed in global enviroment, any attempt for reform of old and traditional political system on enormous territory (`schlachta` system as reflection of it) was very limited and needed a lot of time. But obviously, our ancestors didn`t have time, they were defeated and divided from advancing agressive newcomers, enslaved.
Then, history was written by winners and today we seek to collect puzzles of historical traces. Path of our civilization was violantly stooped/cut in one historical moment and we- `children of garden` seek to found answers, scent, to continue.
Crow
2 May 2008
History / Significance of May 3rd in Poland [21]
I noticed that many Poles insist to underline that old "nobles democracy" was backwarded/degenerated.
Why?
Did you ever sow/heard that some Greak say that old antic Greak or even so called Greak (many so called antic Greak issues could be in fact antic Slavic issues) `democracy` was degenerated. Not, of course. It`s because Greaks respect themselves (respect their interests) and because spreading Greak/Hellenic heritage is on the line of ruling establishmant of Europe, while Slavic heritage and contribution to global civilization should stay under the carpet. In short- Slavs are on `menu`, no matter Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant. Just, approach is different. Key words are `divide and conquer` then, `assimilate and overrun`.
The "nobles democracy" was in 18 th century already a very degenerated political form of a statehood .
I noticed that many Poles insist to underline that old "nobles democracy" was backwarded/degenerated.
Why?
Did you ever sow/heard that some Greak say that old antic Greak or even so called Greak (many so called antic Greak issues could be in fact antic Slavic issues) `democracy` was degenerated. Not, of course. It`s because Greaks respect themselves (respect their interests) and because spreading Greak/Hellenic heritage is on the line of ruling establishmant of Europe, while Slavic heritage and contribution to global civilization should stay under the carpet. In short- Slavs are on `menu`, no matter Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant. Just, approach is different. Key words are `divide and conquer` then, `assimilate and overrun`.
Crow
2 May 2008
History / Significance of May 3rd in Poland [21]
It is interesting to me to note that Russian Empire wasn`t able to adopt anything from Polish- Sarmatian schlachta. Or if it was able, please someone enlighte me.
If Russian Empire was able to fully adopt key elements from long Polish expiriance in democracy, that would inevitable lead Russia and complete empire in dirrection of some Slavic Alliance or Union without (so obvious!) dominance of some local (particulary Russian) elite. Sarmatian concept in Slavic history always considered to be aware of multicultural-multiethnic (multitribal) dimension of Slavic world.
The medieval czarist system could hardly accept a modern democratic constitution in its "sphere of influence".
It is interesting to me to note that Russian Empire wasn`t able to adopt anything from Polish- Sarmatian schlachta. Or if it was able, please someone enlighte me.
If Russian Empire was able to fully adopt key elements from long Polish expiriance in democracy, that would inevitable lead Russia and complete empire in dirrection of some Slavic Alliance or Union without (so obvious!) dominance of some local (particulary Russian) elite. Sarmatian concept in Slavic history always considered to be aware of multicultural-multiethnic (multitribal) dimension of Slavic world.
Crow
2 May 2008
History / An Example of Falsifying Historical Facts and Degrading Poland [46]
Don`t worry my brotherly Poles. Brits would learn you what is multiculturalism and tolerance. Then, they would share your resources with you and tell you how to use it on behalf of who knows who. In the same time, having simpaty for Pan-Slavic feelings is considered to be barbaric and in the opposition to ruling political line.
put cross on yourself and read...
Prince Charles and Camilla open Jewish centre in Poland
Prince Charles Coming to Cracow
Warsaw Voice, 16 April 2008
warsawvoice.pl/view/17584
Don`t worry my brotherly Poles. Brits would learn you what is multiculturalism and tolerance. Then, they would share your resources with you and tell you how to use it on behalf of who knows who. In the same time, having simpaty for Pan-Slavic feelings is considered to be barbaric and in the opposition to ruling political line.
put cross on yourself and read...
Prince Charles and Camilla open Jewish centre in Poland
Prince Charles Coming to Cracow
Warsaw Voice, 16 April 2008
warsawvoice.pl/view/17584
Britain's Prince Charles and his wife Camilla Parker Bowles, the Duchess of Cornwall, will visit Cracow on April 29 to open the Cracow Jewish Community Center.
Crow
18 Apr 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
here we see that use of Dragon battle standards had even practical meaning.
I have one digression on this, having in mind great ancient knowledge presented from our Slavic ancestors.
Remind yourself on Serbian Racowie and Polish Winged cavalry, for a moment [see this]...
Commonwealth Hussar, wings visible. Painting by Aleksander Orłowski
angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
What you people say on this example of martial skill and ancient knowledge in general? That is just one of many proofs that Slavic culture/existance has long continuity in time and space. Can you imagine those conditions and times when such a knowladge was extracted (to use wings/feathers as intimidation or to use Dragon battle standard to be aware of wind durrection!!!). Increadible how ancient simbolism had even practical side.
Same as Dragon tradition, Racowie (Husar/Gusar) martial concept was spread accross the Europe (not only Europe)...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar
If one start to examine traces of Slavic contribution to global heritage of whites and whole mankind, he must admit that Slavs are amazing. Slavic history was too often written by hostile foreigners. Today, we live in time when Slavic history faces its revolution. I wish to all of us that we enjoy and inform ouselves because, only informed persons are capable to endure chalanges of life. Let our past serve to future of our children.
here we see that use of Dragon battle standards had even practical meaning.
I have one digression on this, having in mind great ancient knowledge presented from our Slavic ancestors.
Remind yourself on Serbian Racowie and Polish Winged cavalry, for a moment [see this]...
Commonwealth Hussar, wings visible. Painting by Aleksander Orłowski
angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html
POLISH HUSSARS
The hussars were generally the elite of the Polish armey and their men had excellent fighting and equestrian skills. They were generally feared by the Russians, Swedes, Turks, and Tartars. Since the seventeen century was a time of war, the Poles had to fight to save their land, their natural resources, and trade routes. Sweden, Muscovy, Turkey, the Tartars, and the Cossacks all were hell-bent on destroying Poland.
The hussars were generally the elite of the Polish armey and their men had excellent fighting and equestrian skills. They were generally feared by the Russians, Swedes, Turks, and Tartars. Since the seventeen century was a time of war, the Poles had to fight to save their land, their natural resources, and trade routes. Sweden, Muscovy, Turkey, the Tartars, and the Cossacks all were hell-bent on destroying Poland.
What you people say on this example of martial skill and ancient knowledge in general? That is just one of many proofs that Slavic culture/existance has long continuity in time and space. Can you imagine those conditions and times when such a knowladge was extracted (to use wings/feathers as intimidation or to use Dragon battle standard to be aware of wind durrection!!!). Increadible how ancient simbolism had even practical side.
Same as Dragon tradition, Racowie (Husar/Gusar) martial concept was spread accross the Europe (not only Europe)...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar
Light hussars
A type of irregular light horsemen, already well established by the 15th century. The word hussar derives from the Hungarian huszár. Originally, it derives from the Serbian word `gusar` (Cyrillic: гусар) meaning bandit, pirate. Initially they fought in small bands indeed, but were reorganised into a strong, highly-trained and motivated formation during the reign of King Matthias I Corvinus of Hungary. Under his command the units took part in the war against the Ottoman Empire in 1485 and proved successful against the Turkish Spahis as well as Bohemians and Poles. After the king's death in 1490 many hussars fled to other Central and Western European countries and became the core of similar light cavalry formations created there.
A type of irregular light horsemen, already well established by the 15th century. The word hussar derives from the Hungarian huszár. Originally, it derives from the Serbian word `gusar` (Cyrillic: гусар) meaning bandit, pirate. Initially they fought in small bands indeed, but were reorganised into a strong, highly-trained and motivated formation during the reign of King Matthias I Corvinus of Hungary. Under his command the units took part in the war against the Ottoman Empire in 1485 and proved successful against the Turkish Spahis as well as Bohemians and Poles. After the king's death in 1490 many hussars fled to other Central and Western European countries and became the core of similar light cavalry formations created there.
If one start to examine traces of Slavic contribution to global heritage of whites and whole mankind, he must admit that Slavs are amazing. Slavic history was too often written by hostile foreigners. Today, we live in time when Slavic history faces its revolution. I wish to all of us that we enjoy and inform ouselves because, only informed persons are capable to endure chalanges of life. Let our past serve to future of our children.
Crow
17 Apr 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
Source for previous pictures...
The Draco, the Late Roman military standard
here you can read more in case with Sarmatian influence on Romans (and not only them)
just few quotations:
Note how old historians always (usualy in articles that i sow) confuse Scythians with Sarmatians or simple- in many chronicles, consider them as kin ethoses. In general, Scythians were branch of Sarmatians (Slavs) but seams almost exclusively nomadic, while those Slavic tribes which were dirrectly designated as Sarmatians were bearers of knowlage of agriculture (not only that). Today`s Slavic nations (and many of those who originates from Slavs but aren`t Slavs anymore) are mixture of those nomadic and tribes orriented on agriculture. Also, Sarmatians introduced knowlage of heavy cavalery to Romans (what would later ultimately evolved in Serbian Racowie and Polish winged cavalery, husars, etc.) and Scythians knowlage of horse archery (possibly, later evolved into Cossacks).
We already mentioned here (see page 3), Sarmatian (Slavic) origin of King Arthur Pendragon...
King Arthur in combat, brandishing a draco. From L'Histoire de Merlin by Robert de Boron (14th C.).
Source for previous pictures...
The Draco, the Late Roman military standard
here you can read more in case with Sarmatian influence on Romans (and not only them)
just few quotations:
It may have been used primarily to determine the wind-direction for the horse archers. Arrian described it as a long sleeve, 'made by sewing pieces of dyed material together'. This sleeve/tube hung limp when the rider was at rest, but on the move it flew like a serpent and whistled in the wind. The hollow head, in the form of a toothed dragon, was formed from metal and the wind passing through it would extend the cloth tube tail attached to the neck of the head.
The Draco was adopted first into the Roman cavalry during the 2nd century AD, possibly with the introduction of Sarmatian cavalry into the Roman army.
Note how old historians always (usualy in articles that i sow) confuse Scythians with Sarmatians or simple- in many chronicles, consider them as kin ethoses. In general, Scythians were branch of Sarmatians (Slavs) but seams almost exclusively nomadic, while those Slavic tribes which were dirrectly designated as Sarmatians were bearers of knowlage of agriculture (not only that). Today`s Slavic nations (and many of those who originates from Slavs but aren`t Slavs anymore) are mixture of those nomadic and tribes orriented on agriculture. Also, Sarmatians introduced knowlage of heavy cavalery to Romans (what would later ultimately evolved in Serbian Racowie and Polish winged cavalery, husars, etc.) and Scythians knowlage of horse archery (possibly, later evolved into Cossacks).
Arrian, who was writing c. 137 AD, described it as a Scythian (he most probably meant Sarmatian) invention which was adopted by Roman cavalry...
We already mentioned here (see page 3), Sarmatian (Slavic) origin of King Arthur Pendragon...
King Arthur in combat, brandishing a draco. From L'Histoire de Merlin by Robert de Boron (14th C.).
Crow
13 Apr 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
read what i said. I told you
nice example why we need discussion
to become "People of the Field", people need first to live as nomadic ethnic/tribal formation depending on the food which can be found (collected) in nature. Fact that Poles are "People of the Field", lead to conclusion that Poles behind themselves has long and continual evolution of their way of life. Ultimate conclusion must be that Poles (Slavs in general) are on their own for much longer period then many can imagine or could be ready to admit...
Scientific fact is that Polish national name reffering on people who depended on agriculture. In general, names/designations of Slavic nations/people has deeper meaning and sense then, designation [of how to say]- names of younger ethoses. Same is with personal Slavic names, designations for places, rivers and mountains.
more you can imagine, more you can imagine
Reconstruction drawing by Gerry Embleton, showing a Sarmatian in Roman service, based on the Chester stele as well as the 'dog' draco from Trajans Column.
more on Dragon in Sarmatian simbolism...
in it`s essence it should be understand as constant metaphisical battle between good and evil. Dragon (good) Vs. Serpent (evil)
read what i said. I told you
He and his people built many houses and it became the center of his territory. They called themselves Polonians, which means "People of the Field".
nice example why we need discussion
to become "People of the Field", people need first to live as nomadic ethnic/tribal formation depending on the food which can be found (collected) in nature. Fact that Poles are "People of the Field", lead to conclusion that Poles behind themselves has long and continual evolution of their way of life. Ultimate conclusion must be that Poles (Slavs in general) are on their own for much longer period then many can imagine or could be ready to admit...
I have noticed that all kings whether in Poland,Czech or Ukraine have the ending -slav in their first names.Boleslaw,Swiatoslaw,etc.It cannot be a coincidence.
Scientific fact is that Polish national name reffering on people who depended on agriculture. In general, names/designations of Slavic nations/people has deeper meaning and sense then, designation [of how to say]- names of younger ethoses. Same is with personal Slavic names, designations for places, rivers and mountains.
Slavic history is fascinating.
more you can imagine, more you can imagine
Reconstruction drawing by Gerry Embleton, showing a Sarmatian in Roman service, based on the Chester stele as well as the 'dog' draco from Trajans Column.
more on Dragon in Sarmatian simbolism...
Dragon against serpent
in it`s essence it should be understand as constant metaphisical battle between good and evil. Dragon (good) Vs. Serpent (evil)
Crow
13 Apr 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
amazing
thank you Franek.
nice story before good night :)
How about this.
amazing
thank you Franek.
nice story before good night :)
Crow
13 Apr 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
there is two options for you then
1. you should spiritualy return to Mother Slavia
or
2. learn to respect choice of those who stayed Slavs
whatever your path can be, i can found strenght to tolerate you
:)
there is two options for you then
1. you should spiritualy return to Mother Slavia
or
2. learn to respect choice of those who stayed Slavs
whatever your path can be, i can found strenght to tolerate you
:)
Crow
13 Apr 2008
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]
ORDER OF THE DRAGON
There is one story for you - Polish and Slavic ladies and gentlemen (and other members and guests of Polishforums.com), based on old and true chronicles. Ancient Slavic culture was very advanced and greatly affected traditions and achievements of complete Western world. One of those achievements, based on old Slavic heritage is Order of the Dragon- mighty protector of Christianity, Slavs and Europeans. This Earth didn't seen Sacred Order which was glorious as this one. There wasn't Sacred Order with members famous and controversial as members of this Order. All were willing to die for honor and given word. Many of them die. Our Lord Jesus Christ and St. Vitus were witnesses. Order effectively existed about 300 years, and was revived later. Extracted from ancient Sarmatian (Proto Slavic/Slavic) heritage, in middle age re-born as Serbian, Order evolved into Slavic Order after call for brotherly support, which was sent from Serbian nobility because of Ottoman threat. Soon after, Order becomes European. Order was always open for Orthodox, Catholics and Protestants. It seams that divisions inside of Christian world didn't affect this Order.
It is said that famous Polish King Jan Sobieski was one of the most devoted members of this Order. Great King did whatever he could to support Serbians and all Balkan Slavs who faced with Turkish invasion. May eternal soul of His Majesty Jan Sobieski, rest in peace.
FROM THE CHAOS
THERE IS ORDER.
FROM THE ORDER
THERE IS THE DRAGON.
WITH THE DRAGON
THERE IS VICTORY.
HAIL DRAGON! HAIL VICTORY!
Serbian Nobleman, true Sarmatian- Milos Obilic - the original founder of the Dragon Order
Source:
IMPERIAL SOVEREIGN TIBERIAN DOBRYNIAN HOUSE OF ROME BYZANTIUM AND RUSSIA
imperialclub.net/orderofthedragon.htm
one more fragment from text:
When Christianity clashed with Islam - Kosovo Battle, Jun 28, 1389, St. Vitus day (Sv. Vid/Vidovdan- on Serbian)
From the bottom of the hell, via Anatolia, Evil Serpent of Ottoman hordes come to swallow Serbian Empire and whole Europe then. As, respond - Dragon from the oldest Slavic traditions was needed once again. Summoned by Serbian Nobleman Voivode of Knights Miloš Obilić - dragon came. Price was life.
to be continued...
ORDER OF THE DRAGON
There is one story for you - Polish and Slavic ladies and gentlemen (and other members and guests of Polishforums.com), based on old and true chronicles. Ancient Slavic culture was very advanced and greatly affected traditions and achievements of complete Western world. One of those achievements, based on old Slavic heritage is Order of the Dragon- mighty protector of Christianity, Slavs and Europeans. This Earth didn't seen Sacred Order which was glorious as this one. There wasn't Sacred Order with members famous and controversial as members of this Order. All were willing to die for honor and given word. Many of them die. Our Lord Jesus Christ and St. Vitus were witnesses. Order effectively existed about 300 years, and was revived later. Extracted from ancient Sarmatian (Proto Slavic/Slavic) heritage, in middle age re-born as Serbian, Order evolved into Slavic Order after call for brotherly support, which was sent from Serbian nobility because of Ottoman threat. Soon after, Order becomes European. Order was always open for Orthodox, Catholics and Protestants. It seams that divisions inside of Christian world didn't affect this Order.
It is said that famous Polish King Jan Sobieski was one of the most devoted members of this Order. Great King did whatever he could to support Serbians and all Balkan Slavs who faced with Turkish invasion. May eternal soul of His Majesty Jan Sobieski, rest in peace.
FROM THE CHAOS
THERE IS ORDER.
FROM THE ORDER
THERE IS THE DRAGON.
WITH THE DRAGON
THERE IS VICTORY.
HAIL DRAGON! HAIL VICTORY!
Serbian Nobleman, true Sarmatian- Milos Obilic - the original founder of the Dragon Order
The famous Polish King, Jan Sobieski, the architect behind the great Turkish defeat at the gates of Vienna, also served as Grand Master between 1657 and 1696. As Hungary and Transylvania crumbled beneath the weight of the Turkish onslaught, many members of the Dragon Order fell in battle and the orientation of the surviving knights drifted further eastward. With the death of Jan Sobieski, leadership passed to Prince Dmitri Cantemir, the Despot of Moldavia, who was valiantly engaged in a conflict to stave off the Turks. Dmitiri rallied the last of the loyal Dragon knights but was ultimately defeated by the Turks and ousted from his principality. The circle of the Order had dwindled significantly and, once Cantemir died without issue, the title of Grand Master passed to Dmitri's suzerain, Peter the Great of Russia.
Source:
IMPERIAL SOVEREIGN TIBERIAN DOBRYNIAN HOUSE OF ROME BYZANTIUM AND RUSSIA
imperialclub.net/orderofthedragon.htm
one more fragment from text:
The original Order, called the Sacred Order of the Dragon of Saint George, was created by Milos Obilic, the first Serbian to be dubbed a knight in the feudal tradition. Obilic created his order with twelve other knights and the society had a single purpose at its center: The assassination of the Ottoman Sultan, Murad I. Milos Obilic achieved the aim of his organization during the disastrous battle of Kosovo Polje (June 15th, 1389), when he was able to force himself into Murad's tent and stab the Sultan to death.
When Christianity clashed with Islam - Kosovo Battle, Jun 28, 1389, St. Vitus day (Sv. Vid/Vidovdan- on Serbian)
From the bottom of the hell, via Anatolia, Evil Serpent of Ottoman hordes come to swallow Serbian Empire and whole Europe then. As, respond - Dragon from the oldest Slavic traditions was needed once again. Summoned by Serbian Nobleman Voivode of Knights Miloš Obilić - dragon came. Price was life.
to be continued...