History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]


Can't be what I think it was?

Actually I didn't write what I think germanization was, but I pointed out sheer facts. If you think that they are untrue than you are more than welcome to provide counterarguments.


Well for starters, here:


And here:


You imply that after the Poles took control of Silesia they started an ethnic clean which is an evident lie. As I stated in my previous post, poles took control of parts of Silesia after WWI has ended and together with the land came hundreds thousands of German citizens under Polish jurisdiction, which were granted the status of an ethnic minority. Nobody stole their land, money, houses, etc.. Moreover, they were given rights of which poles living under German rule could only dream of. And what was their thank you for that? Organizations like Schelbtschutz, members of which were aside young men also big numbers of women and elderly people, which engaged in hostility towards the Polish population and military, performed sabotage operations, made lists of Poles who later were to be arrested or executed in Operation Tannenberg and organized concentration camps for those people. 90% of people from those lists were later on killed in a cruel way. Talking about facts speaking for themselves, innit?

History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]


Oh my, I feel as if I was called to the table. :) Very well than, lets start with the parts of your post that I put into question. :)


How horribly was the Prussian rule?

The Silesia became Prussian in 1763. At this point majority of it's inhabitants spoke polish. One year later Friedrich II von Hohenzollern wrote an edict which forbid using the polish language in the courts, offices and in schools. Then Poles were forbidden to acquire medium and higher education. Then the Prussian government started to settle Germans in these lands.

In 1791 the first partition of Poland between Prussia, Russia and Austria took place. Basically immediately the Prussians started to Germanize the part of Poland that came under their rule. The confiscated land from the polish clergy and kościuszko raising participants were given away to German settlers. There were carried out actions of buying out land from Poles and selling them only to German settlers. Just like in Silesia it was forbidden to use polish language in schools, offices and courts. Eventually poles were forbidden to build their own houses. All this actions were being accompanied with German settlement on those new acquired lands. In the period from 1885-1890 there were mass deportations of Poles from Prussia later called “Prussian expulsions”, etc…

Then came the WWI and in effect Polish state was re-establish, but this time, because of the former politics of German colonization, with a large group of German citizens. Despite the ill-treatment from the Prussian government which I already described earlier in this post, those German citizens were not forbidden to speak their language, not forbidden to buy land and build a house on it, etc They were granted the status of “ethnic minority” and had a pretty well life here for as long as the Second Republic of Poland lasted, so until the outbreak of WWII.

So, Bboy, where exactly do you see ethnic cleansed here?


Facts never lie. But people like you do.

Zero Germans in Silesia? Another lie! There are 1 792 Germans living in the Lower Silesia Voidvoidship, 30 531 Germans in Silesia Voidvoidship, 104 399 in Opole Voidvoidship, together there are 147 094 Germans living now in Poland.

History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]


What are they teaching you in schools BB? :))

History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]


I liked the part about "germans beiong stupid ans losw " written by you better. :P


There's notting better than smell of napalm and being exterminated in the morning... :))

History / Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland? [510]


Remember that it is you who said it, not us. ;P

Food / Polish Christmas table [26]


If she is from Wrocław than there is a very high possibility that her parents were also from the parts of todays Ukraine or Belarus. Maybe Lvov area? :)


But I heard that they also have tripe’s in their cuisine? Hmm.. Either way, when it comes to British cuisine, it still remains a mystery for me. While in the Uk I watched one of those British "100 best whatever" program concerning British cuisine and the top 3 where full English breakfast, curry and.... beans on toast!(why make beans on toast a separate dish - you already have those in full English breakfast?) I think that most Polish people know a little to nothing about British food. I really would try it! if only I knew what is worth trying!

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

isthatu,

I don't want to repeat myself so I will just quote little ol me and you will tell me what you think about it, ok?


I believe that at the beginning Russia was the main threat fro GB and France and Germany was allowed to get into strength to be the last line of defense fro the western world. Still it was expected that the Russians will start the war and not Germany.

I guess that we can say that USA, France and GB created a monster. ;)

-edit 2 -

Actually make that USA and GB. :)

You can comment on this as well:

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


Erm.. I don't quite follow. I was talking about Germany.

Ok, Ok, I didn't notice the wink. ;)

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


The answer is very easy. Britain had a long history of intervening on the continent only when the balance of power was in danger and in 1939 this definitely was the case. A situation when one of the leading powers on the continent, in this case Germany, but earlier for example napoleons France, gains a significant advantage over others and eventually dominates Europe wasn't in interest of GB, because in the future it would threaten its position in the world. Plus, who would want to have a powerful neighbor who openly brakes all of it’s international deals?


In aftermath of WWI Germany lost a lot of territories to both, Poland and France. That’s why both countries were on the “Germany’s obvious enemies” list. :)

TBC

To be continued... :)

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


We have but that way we will be trapped in a vicious circle. I'm for the "zero option". Nobody charges anybody! Still I doubt that the Germans will go for it.


Why do i have a feeling that I said something wrong? :)

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


But it's all true! Well except the figures. :)

Every nation that participated in WWII loss something so in a sense Poland’s fate wasn’t a unique one, but still I think that I have every right to talk about it without being accused of trying to be the centre of the world.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

isthatu, I remeber your post about historians and that they shuld be objective, etc... I'm afraid that you lost your objectivness somewhere in this topic. Why are you being so defensive? Well than again, "the Polish side" could have used less emotionally charged stance...

If anybody is interested in a real debate about history without this whole "our pilots saved your country" or "this is your victim mentality" give me a call. :)

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

So in other words while talking about history we should talk only about tragedies of Jews, Gypsies, etc but not polish people and everything will be OK?

UK, Ireland / 13,000 Polish births this year, in the UK [180]


I never thought that I will live the day when calling someone a poster will be perceived as disrespectful. I always thought that the word sculpture carries a very negative baggage with itself but poster? Now really... ;)

News / Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church. [96]


Christianity is basically a set of moral values. How come atheists are allowed to take decisions according to their set of values and Christians are not allowed to do the same? It sound like a clearly discrimination if you ask me.


Actually I will reverse the question. Why should the minority be happy and majority forgotten? It just doesn't make any sense for me. If the majority of citizens are atheists why should they be forced to think like Christians and vice versa?


How exactly was it a religious conflict? Did you kill yourself because you were believing in a different God? Or maybe you killed yourself because one religion allows women to be priests? Have you actually heard any disputes between two sides that have anything to do with religion? (sorry if it sounded rude - I’m just curious)

News / Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church. [96]


And when there is a conflict of interest between the majority and minority, what do they do? In regular democratic country the rule of majority would be applied. That's what democracy is all about.

UK, Ireland / 13,000 Polish births this year, in the UK [180]


Having "friends" like you one really doesn't have to have enemies. :))

UK, Ireland / 13,000 Polish births this year, in the UK [180]


Are you kidding me? Don't you read the news? Your country seems to be ruled by total idiots, UK's immigration policy is a mess, your health care system is on a verge of breakdown, the wages are going down rapidly, hundreds of thousands of brits are out of work because of the new immigrants, everything that can move seems to sponge off your system, there is going to be a bloodbath because the brits are getting more and more frustrated by their current situation, British children probably can't spell the name Great Britain anymore and your Island is going to sink any minute now... Is that enough? :))

UK, Ireland / 13,000 Polish births this year, in the UK [180]


I'm sorry that you feel bitter and frustrated... well no, that’s not quite true. I don't know you so I really couldn't care less if your in a bad or in a good mood, but your statements seem to upset ( a diplomatic version of the word **** off ;) ) some of the members of this forum who seem not to share your sentiments towards their mother country. I understand that you feel the need to get this hate out of your system, but could you at least have the dignity to do it somewhere where you wont affect other people?

UK, Ireland / 13,000 Polish births this year, in the UK [180]


Wroclaw boy, what is the point of repeating yourself?

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

What a terrible situation for the Serbs. Imagine Warsaw not being in Polan..... Ok, a bad comparison... imagine Kraków not being in Poland anymore. Sad. ;)

UK, Ireland / 13,000 Polish births this year, in the UK [180]


Generally all the lands that use to be under the German occupation prior to WWI are now better off than those that were part of the Russian empire. While the Germans where "investing" in their conquered lands, which were suppose to be their new lebensraum, the Russians where just sponging and draining their occupied lands. Compare western and eastern part of Poland and you will see what I mean. Plus, while the struggle for the poles in the Russian occupied lands was a military one, the struggle to survive for the Poles on German occupied territories for the most part was more of a economical one. In order not to be bought off the land by the German settlers Poles were organizing themselves, establishing their own banks, businesses, infrastructure, etc.. Their fruits of labor are basically still visible.

Oh but I’m slowly drifting away from my original point, which is:

Czechs “inherited” a better infrastructure than the Poles after both countries got their independence back. Another problem for Poland was to establish back an economical connection between it’s three parts that for over 123 years were separate, something that the Czechs didn’t need to worry about. This process was then brutally stopped after only 20 years by the WWII, the outcome of which was definitely more tragic for Poland than for the Czech republic. And then came the commie times, blah blah blah…

Having said that I do think that we have a lot to learn from the Czechs and that we can’t explain everything by the war etc.. Czech republic is a great place and I agree that the people are amazing (they have a funny accent though ;) ). If living in Poland is so bad for you why not leave than? For Czech republic for example. It will save you from a stomach ulcer and you won’t spoil my good mood. It’s an all win situation. :)

News / Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church. [96]


I would say rather that they take decisions for ALL.... except christians. :)

Life / Is drinking water in Poland good? [96]


The whole statement was a little tongue-in-cheek. I'm sure that there are more characteristics that we have in common, but the moaning seems to be the most vivid one. :)

News / Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church. [96]


Well, having been living in a small town in Poland basically all my life, I think the church influences the voter in a much smaller scale than we think, but I respect your opinion.


If you can, than I think that you don’t believe in them in the first place. Can an atheist separate his believes from his believes? :) I don't think so.


I'm sure that there are a lot of Catholics that are Catholics only in name. But than again, catholic doesn't mean saint. :)

As for the pressure, I never witnessed it myself( well when I was a young punk rocker my grandma always used to moan that I don't go to the church and that I will surely burn in hell, but I guess that it’s juts the way the grandmas are;) ) . More over, my best friends from childhood times were atheists (two brothers) and one guy was a Jehovah Witness and they never witnessed any problems because they were not Catholics.

Life / Is drinking water in Poland good? [96]

First of all, I'm very glad that you found a job wildrover. As for the bid of your post I quoted, I think that this is probably the only thing that Poles and Brits have in common - being critical about their fatherland. Well actually in both cases only english are allowed to moan about the Uk and only Poles are allowed to moan about poland but that's justs a topic for a totally different discussion. :)

-edit-

As for the original topic, you won't die or get ill because of drinking tap water in Poland, but still It would be better to drink a bottled water.

PS:


Dude, you know how pee tastes? That's mighty disturbing. :))

News / Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church. [96]

:)

I wasn't picking on words Miranda. I think I should explain what I had in mind.

Basically the separation of church and state means that no clergy men are allowed to participate in countries politics. This definitely is the case in Poland. There are no clergy men in polish parliament and the official stance of polish Catholic Church is that they don't interfere in countries politics. Unfortunately every now and then we do hear about some priest telling people on whom they should vote but those are just some incidents - exceptions that just reaffirm the rule.

In France however it's not only priests that should not partake in politics but it seems that religious people on the whole also should not do it. Personally, taking into consideration it's history and current rate of "believers" I'm not surprised at all but I do see it as a kind of discrimination. Christians are allowed to participate in politics as long as they don't think like Christians. Can you believe it?

Lets just say that starting from today atheists in Poland would only be allowed to partake in politics as long as they don't think like atheists? What do you think would be the reaction of other Europeans, especially the westerners? I think that there would be a big uproar. Why it isn't the other way around? Why is it acceptable to forbid Christians to think liker Christians but it's not acceptable to forbid atheists to think like atheists?

My conclusion:

The separation of church and state is very good, but I don’t think that it means that in a country where over 90% of people are catholic it’s politicians should be force to think like atheists. If the people choose religious people to run their country than the people have spoken. Isn’t it what democracy is all about?

PS: Going back to the original topic – I think that it is good like it is now and there’s no need for a change. People are allowed to believe and not to believe in whatever they want. Religious classes are not obligatory. I don’t see the point in changing it.

News / Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church. [96]


But don't you think that atheists actually do have beliefs?

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


600 000 plus 300 000 equals 900 000 and this is the number of Polish soldiers participating in the final stage of this conflict. Still some people die on the war and other people come to replace them. During the whole war there were over 2 000 000 polish soldiers participating in this conflict. Of course let's not forget that at least 89,000 Poles fought for the Nazis. ;))

I hope that everything is clear now.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


Just in the september campaign alone there were 950 000 polish soldiers taking part.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland_%281939%29

In the final stage of WW2 there were 600 000 Polish soldiers fighting in both alliance and soviet army plus there were also 300 000 Polish home army soldiers. Even if we take your 400 000 figure as a valid one (I really don't have the time to question your figures) there were 700 000 polish soldiers fighting at the final stage of WWII.

Through out the WWII there were over 2 000 000 Poles under arms fighting.