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Poland turning into a religious state? Polish politic and Church.


Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #1
Jerzy SzmajdziƄski (Left and Democrats - LiD), deputy speaker of the Lower House said on Polish Radio 1 Friday morning that in his opinion, Poland was turning into a religious state.

LiD MP commented on Thursday's meeting between education minister Katarzyna Hall (PO) and metropolitan archbishop of Warsaw Kazimierz Nycz who agreed that religious education could become a compulsory A-level subject.

They also decided that a thousand Polish pupils would take a mock RE A-level exam next spring.

What do you think ?...
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
8 Dec 2007 /  #2
pretty sad
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
8 Dec 2007 /  #3
What do you think ?...

More bullshi*ts from Stalinist, who should be in prison instead of Parliament.
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #4
pretty sad

Yeah...

More bullshi*ts from Stalinist, who should be in prison instead of Parliament

Who are you talking about G ?...
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
8 Dec 2007 /  #5
Who are you talking about G ?...

Left and Democrats - LiD

OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #6
He just stated what have been said. That's all. I'm not sure he's wrong...Religion takes too much place in the Polish gov sometimes.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
8 Dec 2007 /  #7
Jerzy SzmajdziƄski (Left and Democrats - LiD),

- A commie. They hate Christianity, especially Catholicism. And so seems to do the hack - author of the news in English you're quoting.

Left and Democrats (LiD) it's the new name for the former Democratic Left Alliance (SLD). And during communism, i.e. Russian occupation, they called themselves the Polish Workers' Party (PZPR).

Under any name at all they shall always be just a bunch of Polonophobic degenerates and traitors.

What do you think ?...

- More importantly: what do you think?
:)

Religion takes too much place in the Polish gov sometimes

- Any examples of that? And even if it were the case that 'religion takes too much place in the Polish gov sometimes,' why would it be so wrong?

Judging from your posts, the French media seem to be quite adverse towards Christanity, and Polonophobic too. You should question this commie crap the French press is made of.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
8 Dec 2007 /  #8
And I finally agree with Puzzler for the first time.
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #9
what do you think?

I keep saying that religion is a personal matter and have nothing to do in politic issues and in education. Are we all obligated to be Christian ?...Freedom also means that we must have the choice to think on our own.

Judging from your posts, the French media seem to be quite Christanity-unfriendly, and Polonophobic too.

Hmm...it's a Polish website :) No French at all. Polish press. There's no attack again Christianity and noone is polonophobic, it's just that school must be for everyone, and not only for Christian people, i don't think you're going to disagree on that, unless you're schoolophobic, atheistophobic, or any other difference :)
slick77 - | 127  
8 Dec 2007 /  #10
Poland turning into religious state ?...

Although Catholic Church has a great influence in the Polish politics, I would be far from comparing Poland to a religious state and put it in the same line as Iran, for example.

Also, it is worth to point out that Mr. Szmajdzinski and his party Left Democratic Aliance has a very little credibility left and any statement coming out of this party and its people, to me personally has a very little value.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
8 Dec 2007 /  #11
Are we all obligated to be Christian ?

Of course not. No one says that. Commies just talk crap hoping that they will get 1% more of support from old commies, young anti-Christian fanatics and other freaks.
the_falkster 1 | 180  
8 Dec 2007 /  #12
making religious education compulsory until A-level can be very dangerous if they were only to teach christian religion. if they teach the whole diversity of religion they would still leave pupils the choice. and more importantly future generations would understand better what the differences between different beliefs are and try to avoid misunderstandings...

diversity is key.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
8 Dec 2007 /  #13
Are we all obligated to be Christian

- Are we all obligated not to be Christians? Are we all to accept as only true your idea of 'freedom'? Why? Why should your view be better than that of Christians? And do the Christians criticise you as you're criticising them? Live and let live, mate.

I'm still waiting for a proof from you that there's too much religion in the Polish government....
:)
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
8 Dec 2007 /  #14
A commie. They hate Christianity, especially Catholicism. And so seems to do the hack - author of the news in English you're quoting.

Left and Democrats (LiD) it's the new name for the former Democratic Left Alliance (SLD). And during communism, i.e. Russian occupation, they called themselves the Polish Workers' Party (PZPR).

There have been forces at work in Europe since the 18th Century that want to destroy Christianity...this should be no surprise...I see no harm at all in having classes in religion

taught in school...the course should include a comparison of different faiths/religions...I
would suggest, however, that, since many Poles are Roman Catholic, that the church should sponsor specific Christian education & Bible study...also, in my view, the Roman Catholic church needs to discern, as Jesus said, 'the signs of the times', and make an effort to reach out to young people in a more modern way...this does not mean preaching a 'different' Jesus Christ, but it does mean examining some Catholic doctrines that may have been in error in the first place, and have little use today.
slick77 - | 127  
8 Dec 2007 /  #15
I'm still waiting for a proof from you that there's too much religion in the Polish government....
:)

LiD MP commented on Thursday’s meeting between education minister Katarzyna Hall (PO) and metropolitan archbishop of Warsaw Kazimierz Nycz who agreed that religious education could become a compulsory A-level subject.

Isn't the fact of such meeting an evidence of influence that Catholic Church has in the government?
miranda  
8 Dec 2007 /  #16
I'm still waiting for a proof from you that there's too much religion in the Polish government....

common Puzz, you are just stirring here. If you really follow what is going on in Poland, then you would notice that church wants more power than it had during communism. It has nothing to do with religion.

As for France - she separated church from the government long time ago, which is good because beliefs should stay out of politics.
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #17
Live and let live, mate

Yeah, so why make religious education a compulsory A-Level subject ? True, let live.

Quoting: Polson
Are we all obligated to be Christian

- Are we all obligated not to be Christians?

I can answer both questions (stupid questions, aren't they ?) : NO.

Why should your view be better than that of Christians?

I'm not saying that my view is the best, or whatever, but just asking why should everyone (SO that includes atheists, or people with other religions, beliefs...) receive a Christian education ? Isn't Poland a secular country ?

And do the Christians criticise you as you're criticising them?

I'm not criticizing Christians, just some ideas of some of them. That's all.

:)

the course should include a comparison of different faiths/religions

I agree :)

As for France - she separated church from the government long time ago, which is good because beliefs should stay out of politics.

Exactly. In France, the Church separated from the gov in 1905, but in Poland, the Church and the gov are separated too...At least officially...
El Gato 4 | 351  
8 Dec 2007 /  #18
Poland turning into a religious state?

When has it not been a religious state? When has religion not effected the choices most Polish people make?

Saying it's turning into one is stupid. It's been religious from the start, it just has new issues to face.
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #19
When has it not been a religious state?

Officially, the Church and the gov are separated in Poland, it's a secular country.

When has religion not effected the choices most Polish people make?

I'm talking about politic and education, i don't care about what people think, everyone is free to believe in what he/she wants.
El Gato 4 | 351  
8 Dec 2007 /  #20
I'm talking about politic and education

Yeah, in the past wars have been fought over religion. Poland called for help against its pagan neighbors in the past = Teutonic crusaders invade lithuania and eventually Poland sides with Lithuania to fight off the controversial crusaders.

i don't care about what people think

Shame one you.....

:]
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
8 Dec 2007 /  #21
so why make religious education a compulsory A-Level subject ?

- And why not? There are other compulsory subjects too. What's the difference? Why should knowledge of Christianity mean not to let live? And Poland is still a Christian - Catholic country; Christianity is closely connected with our national culture and values. If the majority wants the knowledge of Christianity to be a compulsory subject, what's wrong with that? Does democracy mean the rule of majority or minority, Polson? How should knowledge of Christianity hurt atheists or non-Christians? Does e.g. physics hurt those students who don't believe in physics? Or does it make any one of those who study physics a physicist?
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #22
Yeah, in the past wars have been fought over religion. Poland called for help against its pagan neighbors in the past = Teutonic crusaders invade lithuania and eventually Poland sides with Lithuania to fight off the controversial crusaders

LoL what religion/belief is supposed to be the "good one" ?...

Quoting: Polson
i don't care about what people think

Shame one you.....

Hehe, i mean, people's minds are not my business :)
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
8 Dec 2007 /  #23
I'm not criticizing Christians, just some ideas of some of them

- Who are those Christians and what are those ideas of theirs you're criticising?
El Gato 4 | 351  
8 Dec 2007 /  #24
- And why not? There are other compulsory subjects too. What's the difference? Why should knowledge of Christianity mean not to let live? And Poland is still a Christian - Catholic country; Christianity is closely connected with our national culture and values. If the majority wants the knowledge of Christianity to be a compulsory subject, what's wrong with that? Does democracy mean the rule of majority or minority, Polson? How should knowledge of Christianity hurt atheists or non-Christians? Does e.g. physics hurt those students who don't believe in physics? Or does it make any one of those who study physics a physicist?

I agree 100% with this statement. If someone doesn't like the way something works, they should move on. Just because Catholicism is taught about and discussed in a Polish classroom does not mean they are trying to convert non-Catholics.

So, in short:

Why fix it if it isn't broken? It's worked this long, leave it be.
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #25
And Poland is still a Christian - Catholic country

Hmm...Poland is a secular country, there is no state religion...everyone is free to believe in the god he/she wants ;)

If the majority wants the knowledge of Christianity to be a compulsory subject, what's wrong with that?

Was it said that the majority wants it ?...

How should knowledge of Christianity hurt atheists or non-Christians?

We should teach differences of beliefs, respect of the difference, everybody's point of view, tolerance, and not only one point of view, one religion.
El Gato 4 | 351  
8 Dec 2007 /  #26
LoL what religion/belief is supposed to be the "good one" ?...

Neither. No one religion is the right one. You have options in life, you make choices, and you live with it. Why do people always bring it down to that; Which one is right and which one is wrong? Neither and all. In the end we all want the same thing: to be in a better place.

1 goal - many paths to achieve it
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #27
Who are those Christians and what are those ideas of theirs you're criticising?

In case you didn't notice, we're talking about those ideas :)
El Gato 4 | 351  
8 Dec 2007 /  #28
We should teach differences of beliefs, respect of the difference, everybody's point of view, tolerance, and not only one point of view, one religion.

If 100 people at work want a company picnic, and the 101st bastard doesn't, how do you please both groups?
OP Polson 5 | 1,771  
8 Dec 2007 /  #29
I'm not saying that teaching religion should be forbidden, but that those religion classes should not aim at only one way of thinking.
El Gato 4 | 351  
8 Dec 2007 /  #30
Then make Catholic history/Bible teachings an elective : optional class

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