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Why we talk about Nazis not Germans


Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #31
Ruch NS is fairly sizeable in Poland too. Groups like Honor popularised it. Actually, many skinheads in Poland follow this movement.

Sorry, these people are not German.
lesser  
28 Sep 2008 /  #32
Lesser lests agree that German Nazis (national socialists) is better term.

German National Socialist is accurate. People reading this would be clearly informed that t not all Germans are to blame, just those nationalist socialists.

Today, 12:41 Report #31

Groups like Honor popularised it. Actually, many skinheads in Poland follow this movement.

Sorry, these people are not German.

They are marginal minority. Anyway, they are not responsible for WWII.
OP Lukasz  
28 Sep 2008 /  #33
German National Socialist is accurate. People reading this would be clearly informed that t not all Germans are to blame, just those nationalist socialists.

Ok National socialist in Poland have tinny support and Hitler was God in Germany. He wrote book about Jews Slavs etc. Bestseller and he leaded this nation.

Hitler was God in Germany, Germans loved him and it was very awared choice. It is part of history. I don't see the reason to writte about Nazi regime.
Lodz_The_Boat  
28 Sep 2008 /  #34
It is for this very reason that I cannot hold ill will towards the German people as a whole

And that would be righteous.

But this same reason shouldnt be used as a tool to erase that history. Because this move will only work to freshen a scar which have been dug so deep that it might never be filled... but only lighten with alot of good work after it.

The German people of today are not our enemies. There were righteous Germans in those times aswell. But I am afraid to say that the majority of Germans were known (at that time itself) to be very (and I mean VERY) horriable to the Jews+Polish and many other nations. This simple fact cannot be erased. It will be a shame to the lives and feelings of women like Anne Frank and men like my own grandfather and his elder brother... to many Poles... to many beautiful people who lost their precious lives...and even more than just lives...in the hands of a nation's monsterous generation.

yehudi

My solidarities to the Jews. I happen to have read a thread in which the disscussion was about Jewish homes in Poland. I want to say that I know a certain relative of mine who owns one. He will be ready to give it up were it ever claimed by its owner.

I dont know if all my Polish friends and neighbours would agree to my sentiments about Jews. But I step forward to say that yes, you are my brother. I dont know if you have some anger, sadness or complain over the behaviour of some of my simple kind... but I want to assure that if ever a Jew comes infront of my door on a wintry night... I will be there with a blanket and a bowl of soup. I will give shelter. And I will share...

We have so much to learn... I say this to Jews, to Germans to my fellow Poles. We have so much to learn yet. This world which we have divided with so many empty names... a land which God made one, we pulled lines and divided. We called someone less and someone more. We divided and divided further. We divided among colors... color of skin, color of hair, color of eyes etc etc etc and etc! We called one a Slav the other an Aryan another a Celt another a saxon... and then we created reasons to divide! On Religion on Race on Culture even in the name of unity we have divided!

After all the blood and sacrifice we reached an EU. A todler in the name of peace. I say we should pioneer ... we should go ahead and add nations from Asia and Nations from Africa... we should raise the standards of the world... and make peace and unity a must for nations and people.

Whether you be a German a Jew or whoever... I welcome you to Poland... when you come as a friend... or you want to be my neighbour.
Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #35
No, Hitler was responsible and he is dead. Get with the program!!

Then why did the ECSC get formed as early as 1953? Stalin died and sufficient momentum had been gained to constitute this body. Germans u-turned after WWII, to look for a common pact with the French in particular. They did so because Hitler was no longer there to coerce or bully.

How many Germans have u talked to Luki, that have actually expressed such a view that Hitler was God? It was all part of the propaganda machine. Do u even know anything about Hitler's background btw?
Lodz_The_Boat  
28 Sep 2008 /  #36
Seanus

Sean... I appreciate your heart. But my friend... see at the second post, the links there have some lines of hitlers fan mails.

Its just true sean... he was BIG. Big... like a saviour of the Germanic people... The ancient promise which they saw fufilled in him. It might sound so stupid now, but its just the way it was. If everything was not stupid... so many people wouldnt have died.

My Grandfather...I remember...one I saw him shiver and cry and curse. An old man... I loved him alot (I was very young when his soul departed). His brother was taken away...

I my father recalls an old Jewish man he does business with. His father died. His father used to weep and shiver every anniversary of his (rest of the) familes death. Shiver and curse.

Cruse whom? ... Germans. Because they did behave like that... the good people were few enough to meet a few only. Not everyone was lucky to meet those few. The population...became monsters ... suddenly...in a dramatic way. In a quote taken from my grand father 'It seemed their souls were exchanged to something unseen and unheard of.. their eyes were filled with rage...all the time it was filled with ignorance and the brow showed a glimpse of pride which had never been seen before...but could be easily recognised ... '.
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #37
Well...for many Germans he was the saviour! The situation after WWI was downright ****** for many, Hitler promised to make it right again...cut the drama!
Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #38
Pride doesn't mean that u eradicate an entire people. In Scotland, we have pride in our fighting triumphs but it doesn't mean that we wipe out millions.

I think there was just a national sentiment that Heisenberg (or whatever Hitler's predecessor was called) needed to be deposed and replaced by a strong leader. People rally behind such hard talkers.

Ancient promise, yeah, propaganda again.

Finally, a few letters of fan mail doesn't prove that he was a God, nor anything like it. U could find the same letters in many countries
lesser  
28 Sep 2008 /  #39
Well...for many Germans he was the saviour!

Especially those in Eastern Prussia should be grateful.
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #40
In all communities which got de-nationalised and put into other often hostile countries because of some treaty, fear of communists, a strong wish for stabilizing the economy, getting order back on the streets etc. etc. ec....

I can understand those who voted for him!
Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #41
BB said it right. He had a nice program, one which only tenuously hinted at evil through lebensraum. Only insiders really knew how insidious his plans were.

Also, 43%, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't even half of the THEN German population. Hardly a basis for saying that we should be talking about Germans and not Nazis.

Don't get me wrong, Hitler was EVIL and the Holocaust was HORRIBLY wrong but that doesn't mean that things should be distorted and blown out of proportion.

My grandma was attacked too but I still look for some objectivity.
Lodz_The_Boat  
28 Sep 2008 /  #42
First of all... its not a thread to incite hatred (atleast not from my side).

What I was trying to put forward is what I have already put forward.

Hitler was overwhelmingly popular. He was loved and cherished (not a few letters... enormous amoung of letters... bulks and bulks and enormous). His promise clearly included measures which were dire (one of his main tool was his book... a book which clearly spoke about his mind, and he published is many copies for the people to read and rally).

Nothing is distorted and blown out of proportion. But just as for some people its difficult to believe that it could be THIS BAD! And I can understand that... dont blame you... its often unacceptable to the mind that people could be this bad.
lesser  
28 Sep 2008 /  #43
I can understand those who voted for him!

This is very simple. People vote for socialists because they have little idea about politics and this camp always promise them everything what is possible. When socialism collapsing again and again they say that this is fault of certain 'bad people' and ideology is OK. In effect this insanity goes on and on.
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #44
What we object to is your dramatic genius evil/soul thingie...

He and some around him were smart politicians who could tap into the needs, fears and wishes of the people (43% of them).
He used it to get to power and later to control all the might of this big, developed country (a madman on the top of some backwater hole could scream till he get's blue in the face without much effect).

So far so bad....no need to mystify it!
OP Lukasz  
28 Sep 2008 /  #45
Chrits!

Do you see this people who spread propaganda about ethnic cleanising in europe and now talk that Nazis were not German.

What is interesting in other topics on this forum they spread his religion ;)



I have my opinion about this place :))))
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #46
now talk that Nazis were not German.

Says who?
You are beating a dead cow here...(again!)
Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #47
Fair enough, but £ukasz still cannot prove his case. 43% is not overwhelming. It's hardly the landslide victory of the last couple of centuries.

How can so many inadvertently be mass murderers and serial killers, or aiders and abetters of it, and then turn full circle and enter into the ECSC? Wouldn't u agree that it takes a bit more for a serial killer to reform, if at all? Monsters don't become cooperative do-gooders overnight, that's my point.
Lodz_The_Boat  
28 Sep 2008 /  #48
So far so bad....no need to mystify it!

This is exactly what is wrong with some Germans still. Unfortunately.

I dont need to argue on this now. I have written enough and have enough solidarity for good humans.

Your 43% is a statistic which dont show much. There are many factors... young people who dont vote. Voters who dont bother to vote. Low turnouts... is not something new. Its always been there in Europe. Doesnt mean these people dont support the man.

But then... what is the use. You will not understand or recognise the effects .. the wounds. The pride is just too important.

Good luck. Have a nice day.
shopgirl  
28 Sep 2008 /  #49
I am always thinking about it. Why we hear about Naiz killing Jews Polish Russians enslaving French Polish Russians as forced laubour in factories - not Germans.

Because the Nazis were a distinct political group with a particular ideology. Not all Germans and Austrians subscribed to this political party or its beliefs.

To generalize and say "all Germans" is to ignore the distinctions and thereby tar all with one brush.

Of course, you can do that if you want.........but you will be exaggerating, as usual.
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #50
Your 43% is a statistic which dont show much. There are many factors... young people who dont vote. Voters who dont bother to vote. Low turnouts... is not something new. Its always been there in Europe.

Well...somehow contradicts this notion of yours:

In a quote taken from my grand father 'It seemed their souls were exchanged to something unseen and unheard of.. their eyes were filled with rage...all the time it was filled with ignorance and the brow showed a glimpse of pride which had never been seen before...but could be easily recognised

Fanatics who couldn't be bothered to vote for their "Messias"???

As I said, it was bad is it were no need to mystify it!
Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #51
The greater u pump up the potential percentage, the more fragile the case becomes. Let's say 70% were Nazi voters, even 80%. Dissenters were likely few.

So, 80% knew that the Holocaust was gonna happen and agreed with it? That's one nigh-on impossible change of sentiment after the war. Couldn't it just be that they were sold a manifesto full of goodies and went along with it?
OP Lukasz  
28 Sep 2008 /  #52
Before saing good night.

Some Polish were agains help for Germans in battle of Viena (not to mention peasants who had no idea) We talk about Polish troops.

Some Turks were agains invasion on Europe still we talk about Turks.

Some Brits supported Hiter still good people won and we talk about British in WWII.

The fact is that WE HAVEN'T had HITLER IN POLAND.
BRITISH HAD CHURCHIL
Americans Roosevelt.
And Germans had their Hitler!

Germans were very entusiastic about him, yes some were against but after reading his books they could had done much more to stop him. Not Nazis - Germans
Lodz_The_Boat  
28 Sep 2008 /  #54
Fanatics who couldn't be bothered to vote for their "Messias"???

He was not yet a Messia... he was supposed to be.

Couldn't it just be that they were sold a manifesto full of goodies and went along with it?

Many of them probably went with the flow... but most of them knew through his bookand speeches about the greatness of the race... about the cursed jews...

Ofcourse there were few who went for the goodies. But what exactly 'goodies' meant to them? This my friend is not an accusation but a study. A look inside... and insight.

Evil is of many degrees. Not all are to that level which move ahead and DO. There are some who agree but like to stay away from the action... and some who will shout but not move their limbs for it... and then there are those who leap forward.

And when did I say that the ENTIRE PEOPLE OF GERMANY. I have mentioned many times my German solidarity. But I say that 'MOST GERMANS' and I will say it because that is just the way it was.

Sounds bad... because it is bad. Nothing good in it!
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #55
Oh get stuffed with your "german solidarity", we so don't need that!

What a drama queen...
Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #56
I agree with Luki here, if only a little. Germans could have done more to stop him. However, Saddam proved that it's hard to overthrow a dictator. It needed American intervention to take him out. Many coups were attempted but all failed. So, I agree in principle Luki but practical realities lead us to different conclusions. Assassination attempts were either for the very brave or clinically insane!!

What did u have in mind £ukasz? What should Germans have done?

I've said it b4 £odz, many Slavs matched the criteria of an Aryan. Blond hair and blue eyes, sturdy build etc etc. Also, I find it hard to believe that a nation of mass murderers could be built so easily. It takes a certain type or EXCESSIVE propaganda.

However, you argue rationally and I do agree with a lot of what u say. I just like to argue the other side of the coin, it was kinda my training to do so.
eric_the_nave  
28 Sep 2008 /  #57
Bratwurst are you sure about the 43% figure. Without bothering to google I'm fairly sure it was around 35% for one election and lower at the 1933 election which the Nazis "won"
Lodz_The_Boat  
28 Sep 2008 /  #58
we so don't need that

Why? Are you not interested to be friend with Poles?

By German Solidarity I meant 'Regard to German lives and respect to their people and their soverignity'.
Bratwurst Boy  
28 Sep 2008 /  #59
Bratwurst are you sure about the 43% figure. Without bothering to google I'm fairly sure it was around 35% for one election and lower at the 1933 election which the Nazis "won"

You mean the elections of 1932 where the Nazis just got 33 percent:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election,_November_1932

But then came this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election,_1933

The election took place shortly after the Reichstag fire, in which the German parliament was set alight, allegedly by a Dutch Communist, Marinus van der Lubbe. This event had the joint effect of lowering the popularity of the Communist Party (KPD), and enabling Hitler to persuade President Paul von Hindenburg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree.
This emergency law removed many civil libertiesand allowed the arrest of the leaders of the KPD shortly before the election, suppressing the Communist vote and consolidating the position of the Nazis. Hence, the fire is widely believed to have had a major effect on the outcome of the election.

Seanus  
28 Sep 2008 /  #60
That was staged according to most. There is evidence to suggest that Hitler's evil hand was behind it.

Oh, btw BB, what is ur opinion of Hitler? To me, it's the Thatcher syndrome if I could call it that. Many people, when asked, will say that she was a wretch and heavy-handed tyrant but she still won SOOOO many votes. Please be frank!!

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