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Why we talk about Nazis not Germans


Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #1
I am always thinking about it. Why we hear about Naiz killing Jews Polish Russians enslaving French Polish Russians as forced laubour in factories - not Germans.

Htiler wrote Mein Kampf and later won elections

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

Mein Kampf (English: My Struggle/My Battle) is a book by Adolf Hitler. It combines elements of autobiography with an exposition of Hitler's National Socialist political ideology. Volume 1 of Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and volume 2 in 1926

Particularly prominent is the violent anti-Semitism of Hitler and his associates. For example, Hitler claimed that the international language Esperanto was part of a Jewish plot and makes arguments toward the old German nationalist ideas of "Drang nach Osten" and the necessity to gain Lebensraum ("living space") eastwards (especially in Russia).

His agenda was clear, and Germans voted on Hitler and his friends. Why we talk about Nazi regime ? When Hitler won in elections and Germans were very happy to have such proud leader with such agenda.

He pointed out that he is going to kick Jews and conquer east. So why we have to listen about Nazi regime.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #2
Hitler was infact a very popular man... more popular to Germans than the German flag itself probably... take a look:

Fan mails: writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/love-letters-hitler.html

More Letters: haaretz.com/hasen/spages/911386.html

He was a hero... to them (untill he lost the war ofcourse... and his promise didnt materialise)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Sep 2008 /  #3
This is ridiculous £ukasz, exactly what I have argued against. This is what breeds hatred and contempt.

I'm sorry, I don't and won't hold the Germans to account for the Holocaust. Do all Poles vote for LPR or other right-wing factions (radical too)? Of course not. But are they still Poles? Yes.

Hitler brainwashed a nation, a classic example of the power of propaganda. The full extent of his plans were not laid out for all to see at that time. If a monster was in the making, people should have reacted sooner by reading between the lines.

U didn't live in those times £ukasz, u don't know the full picture
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #4
Well...you can say "Germans" if you like....who cares???
It always boils down to the "Germans", not even "Austrians" wanting to have something to do with that now...and everyone and their mother being a resistance fighter against the bad occupiers, never enthusiastic collaborators! :)

I agree there was not much differentiation...Hitler was very popular, for many different reasons and not only in Germany!

Luki likes to see problems where aren't any It seems...
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #5
This is what breeds hatred and contempt.

Exactly. But if you take this thread in anyway to be positive... then you could disscuss an era of influence. How people go ahead and become influenced by extreme and false views... how they later understand and suffer their mistakes...and how it effects people around them.

History is basically about this. This fact can either be used to spread contempt and hatred....or be used to learn how people in the past shaped our present.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,499  
28 Sep 2008 /  #6
Htiler wrote Mein Kampf



  • Hitlers book
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Sep 2008 /  #7
It was a REGIME £ukasz. A killing machine. Because they were NAZIS. There were those who supported Nazi ideals, whether they be Scottish, Hungarian or whatever. Nazi sympathisers. Not just Germans.

Look at Germans after the war, under different direct influence. They reviled what the Nazis did. People don't change that quickly, they deplored it b4.

U can subclassify people within a country in many ways, here is no exception.

Exactly Boat, different times bring different attitudes and those insightful enough can see their mistakes.

Sorry for the 'shouting'
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
28 Sep 2008 /  #8
I remeber when I was a child watching a programme on TV. They ahd a studio audience. On a screen, they had an election manifesto, it promised full employment, better public transport etc., The studio audience were asked to say whether they would vote for a politician that made these promises, the majority voted yes. They revealed the name of the politician who had made these promises. It was Adolf Hitler, long before the war. The audience were shocked. When politicians make promises, people will listen to the ones that benefit them.

Not everyone is Germany supported Hitler, some that opposed him payed with their own lives. Others kept quiet to safeguard their own and their immediate families lives. Fortunatley for me, I have never been in that situation. I'd like to believe I would defend what I believed to be right, but without being in that situation, I am not in a position to say how big a personal price I would be prepared to pay.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Sep 2008 /  #9
Exactly. It's fine commenting with the bravery of being out of range. Radical regimes take radical measures and the fear factor was high. People voted for ideals as Daisy said Luki.

There were many who went along with Hitler's convincing speeches. Trust me, that phenomenon was not confined solely to Germany, by no means.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #10
it promised full employment, better public transport etc

I have never been in that situation

I appreciate your insight and your consideration towards a section of people in our own planet.

But I request you to study more (if you are so interested) before coming to a conclusion, on why and how people supported Hitler in Germany. As far as I know, it was not just because of those simple promises.

Investigate, how a man's dreams became a nations destiny. It doesnt only need to be a good dream... sometimes how we become indulged in our lower charecteristics can also be true.

I would also take this opportunity to mention all my heartfelt support to the good efforts that Germany takes towards the world. I have many good german friends.

However, we shouldnt try to play games with history. It is just truth that Germany and Germans have been influenced by this evil. The promises were just as Hitler was realising them. It was a very bitter time.

A significant member of my family (and many other families in Poland) paid the price ... on hands of young German soldiers... the tales are terrible and long. But yes, the future is here too... and we all must walk together...but not by forgetting the past... We must recognise the truth of the past and then learn from it.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #11
But I request you to study more (if you are so interested) before coming to a conclusion, on why and how people supported Hitler in Germany. As far as I know, it was not just because of those simple promises.

Well...in the last open vote it was barely 43 percentwho voted the Nazi party (he HAD a quite nice program, not "evil" at all and he played on the fears of a communist takeover alot)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election,_1933

What about the rest?
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
28 Sep 2008 /  #12
I appreciate your insight and your consideration towards a section of people in our own planet.

I find your attitude condescending. However, my point was, that it was easy for Hitler to raise support in the early days. Some people didn't realise what they were voting for. Others did and helped him to power. Some chose only to see what benefited them. Some did oppose him. It is dangerous to label an entire nation. Since Hitler, there has been others who committed genocide and atrocities, mankind can be cruel and vicious, regardless of their race.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #13
I find your attitude condescending.

I have a simple attitude. And I am not trying to fight or make someone seem unknown to facts.

Some people didn't realise what they were voting for

As far as I read, and heard from elders in my family... people who have been effected.... People actually wanted this to come. People in Germany (a good portion...say 70%) wanted the ideals of the Mein Kempf ... Hitler wrote and made this book his greatest propoganda tool.

Some did oppose him.

Yes, but its always like that isnt it. Some will always go opposite ways. But Hitler was definately not kind with them.

Since Hitler, there has been others who committed genocide and atrocities, mankind can be cruel and vicious, regardless of their race.

When did I deny that Hitler was not the only evil. Which word was there regarding race?

Its about an even which touched us in Europe. Touched us in mainland Europe more than it did touch England or other far apart parts.

It cannot be just forgotten...or given a white wash. But yes, I agree to the fact that this shouldnt be let influence our present so much. Instead, this can help us to be careful so that next time a Hitler dont get the chance to wake up 'False Pride' of people.
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
28 Sep 2008 /  #14
It cannot be just forgotten...or given a white wash. But yes, I agree to the fact that this shouldnt be let influence our present so much. Instead, this can help us to be careful so that next time a Hitler dont get the chance to wake up 'False Pride' of people.

Which is why it is dangerous to label a race, rather than a regime. When we talk of the atrocites of Pol Pot, we talk about these being commited by the Khmer Rouge, not Cambodians
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #15
atrocites of Pol Pot

It shouldnt be about a race. Its obviously about a generation and a nation.

I know it will surprise you (and I am known to be a very liberal and tolerant man) but its just a recognised event that most germans of that generation agreed to hitlers ideals, and adopted it as their own. They volunteered even! Old and Young! Happily...singing!... Just read the love letters that I posted (the second post of this thread).

The atrocities of Pol Pot and that of Hitler, their priciples and and actons are completely different.

However, I understand what you are speaking for. I think I agree with you.

But do also take into consideration on why such feelings are spread across.

We should rather move ahead to give these feeling a proper directions...as these feelings are here to stay! Once a pot is broken, no matter how much you glue it, the scars remain forever!

The right direction is solidarity towards those who lost their lives... and an apology my our German neighbours (decendants of those who did wrong).

To tell you the truth, many does behave so nice that its an apology in itself...others still call us names.. these things will stay. But for the sensible ones, leaving the hand of true history will bring calamities...nothing but calamities... resembling that WW2 brought after WW1
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #16
I know it will surprise you (and I am known to be a very liberal and tolerant man) but its just a recognised event that most germans of that generation agreed to hitlers ideals, and adopted it as their own. They volunteered even! Old and Young! Happily...singing!... Just read the love letters that I posted (the second post of this thread).

...because they thought they did the right thing, the good thing...imagine that!

and an apology my our German neighbours (decendants of those who did wrong).

How long do you want apologies?
What gives you an apology by people who had nothing to do with that???
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #17
because they thought they did the right thing, the good thing...imagine that!

It was the work is an evil genious. He knew where the evil inside was hiding...and he was successful of bringing it out. He knew about the elements of pride...or respect... or ego and ignorance...which still exist in all of us.

Just like this: The atom always existed... it was there in nature... but it needed a genious to discover its destructive powers... and make a bomb that changes the course of weaponry for Mankind. An atom... which becomes the greatest killing machine.

How long do you want apologies?
What gives you an apology by people who had nothing to do with that???

If you read what I wrote... you could understand better.

See... I dont need apology. I dont have the tendency of becoming angry. But there are youth who would expect a better behaviour from some German youths. Germans are hardly teaching their children about the History of WW2... which sometimes cause stirrs in the Polish and other societies.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #18
It was the work is an evil genious. He knew where the evil inside was hiding...and he was successful of bringing it out. He knew about the elements of pride...or respect... or ego and ignorance...which still exist in all of us.

There is no genius in tapping in on the wishes and fears of people....every politician does that!

But there are youth who would expect a better behaviour from some German youths.

Why???
Some inherited guilt???

Do you expect parents to admonish their kids: "Eat up little Fritz, remember what your great grandpa did!"
Or the teachers in school: "And you better do your math housework correctly...remember Auschwitz!"
Or the politicians to the people: "You better support Israel regardless of what it does right now and what you think about it because of the Holocaust!"

Do you mean that?

Germans are hardly teaching their children about the History of WW2.

Yup...that's why all these memorials in the midst of the capital...all these museums etc...sure...just for fun! Nobody knows actually why there are here..
yehudi 1 | 432  
28 Sep 2008 /  #19
I am always thinking about it. Why we hear about Naiz killing Jews Polish Russians enslaving French Polish Russians as forced laubour in factories - not Germans.

I agree with this point. In Poland some memorials talk about "Hitlerism". This narrows down the guilt as if one bad man did all those crimes. Calling them "Nazis" also narrows down the guilt, so every other german can say "I was against the Nazis". But the truth was that Germans and Austrians were on the whole very enthusiastic about Hitler. He wasn't voted in by a majority, but within a short time he was accepted by nearly everyone as the savior of germany. So in my eyes, the german people (including the austrians), as a nation, are to blame.

Daisy says that maybe any of us would have made the same mistake and we can't judge. But that wouldn't make it any less evil. The Germans made that choice and they bear the responsibility.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #20
The Germans made that choice and they bear the responsibility.

With Israel counting on that...
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #21
I agree with this point. In Poland some memorials talk about "Hitlerism".

I agree to some point.

From the other hand we start to talk about some enigmatic Nazis or Nazi regime. I prefere "German invasion on Poland" "German occupation of Poland"

Yes Germans were happy to have such leader as Hitler they were celebrating after victory over France they were celebrating after victory over Poland. German neighbours in Polish towns started to treat their neighbours like something worst.

Yes at the end of war some Germans had started to hessitate and were thinking what we are going to do with them after the war. everybody knows that many Germans were much nicer at the end of war. Still I think you are right that on monuments we should writte German occupation we should talk about Germans trying to conquer europe and kill many different nations.

I don't see reason to change hiostory books on more politicaly correct to make history nicer for Germans. I have done what they have done why we need to soften history.

There are alwyas single persons who are agianst ther government but mjaority of Germans sdored Hitler and supported him.

German soldiers were sending home everything what they robbed in Europe.
yehudi 1 | 432  
28 Sep 2008 /  #22
For what?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #23
I don't see reason to change hiostory books on more politicaly correct to make history nicer for Germans. I have done what they have done why we need to soften history.

Most Germans really don't care if it's called Nazi or German...change it if it means so much to you!

*yawn*...as Greg would say. :)
lesser 4 | 1,311  
28 Sep 2008 /  #24
Why we talk about Nazis not Germans

Sure, Germany started this war and this should be mentioned clearly in various publications.

However, this "Nazi" name is even more perfidious. This is clearly effect of the Socialist Internationale propaganda. People don't really know what it means and later you can often see ignorant comments that they were 'rightists'. While this is obvious that National Socialism have nothing do to with right-wing policies. So, dear socialists, please don't hide this 'little' fact from the history of socialist movement.
yehudi 1 | 432  
28 Sep 2008 /  #25
The perfidious part is that leftists imply that naziism is the opposite of socialism. And then they use that to taint any iodeology that isn't socialist.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
28 Sep 2008 /  #26
Well...it was called National SOCIALISM!

And the Nazi party had some nice socialist sounding things planned...just read their program:

The full text of the 25 point program

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program
rock - | 460  
28 Sep 2008 /  #27
Hitler brainwashed a nation

I don't think Germans were ignorant or stupid 60 years ago. They were one of the developed countries also at that time.
Babinich 1 | 455  
28 Sep 2008 /  #28
I am always thinking about it. Why we hear about Naiz killing Jews Polish Russians enslaving French Polish Russians as forced laubour in factories - not Germans.

Lukasz,

With all due respect I cannot indict the entire German nation for the acts of barbarians. There were many brave Germans that actively fought against Hitler and paid the ultimate price.

It is for this very reason that I cannot hold ill will towards the German people as a whole.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Sep 2008 /  #29
Developed or not, people can still be brainwashed by crafty manipulation.
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #30
Lukasz,With all due respect I cannot indict the entire German nation for the acts of barbarians.

We talk about French colonies without anny problem we talk about American war in Vietnam. I am sure some people were against. It was German achievement. It is noticable that in press we see articles about Nazi regime. What kind of regime was that if Hitler wrote book about Jews and conquering east and majority of Germans was on his side to the moment of his first defeats.

Lesser lets agree on Nazi Germany (national socialists) is better term.

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