World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World

Your editing out of the "inconvenient facts" of my post does alter the facts; they remain thus:


Britain asked the recognised government of Poland to send representatives of its armed forces to attend the victory parade in London, 1946. The Warsaw government chose not to do so.

IMO the British government behaved dishonourably not in 1946 but in its dealings with the Polish government-in-exile and the Polish Forces of the West after Tehran when Churchill was constantly assuring Anders that Poland's freedom and sacrifice would not be "forgotten' in the post-war world. This was the Western allies moment of shame.

However, the fact that the British government did not enact the forcible post-war repatriation of all Poles back to communist Poland (as some sections of F.O. wanted to do) and allowed some 200,000+ Polish servicemen, women along with some of their familes to resettle in Britain after the war was small consolation but it was some. We could argue forever and a day if this was enough—but IMO it was nowhere near enough.

Read this:
"Polish soldiers were not invited to participate in the victory parades in London and Moscow in 1945 . This meant that Poland was more like an object of mutual relations than like a partner of the Great Powers." It is taken from

ww2.pl/A,thought,for,the,anniversary,141.html

That page is "© 2005 Ministry of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland, Al. J. Ch. Szucha 23, 00-580 Warsaw, tel. (+4822) 523 9000"


No, I've already told you how Poland was treated better than any other Allied nation. You show how it wasn't.


Firstly, no matter how many times you repeat your pathetic lie: there was no snub. Poland was invited to the parade, both free Poles and the recognised Polish government. They both chose not to attend.

Secondly, a question which I have asked countless times but which no Pole has ever answered and which no Pole will ever answer: precisely what action which was within Britain's power would you like Britain to take in September 1939 which Britain did not take?


It's a real pity that you can't learn to tell fact from opinion.

Of all the incredibly ignorant comments in these forums, this one ranks right up there.
Roosevelt and Churchill selling out Poland to the Soviets shows how "treated better" Poland was; let alone all the other slights.

The fact that the British so many years later attempted to make-up for their mistake(s) is proof enough that something was wrong.

All any objective reader has to do is look at posts #423, #425, #429, and #439 among other related posts to get a 'sense' of what occurred.

Bristish apologists like Harry can continue to stew in their own insecure bitterness. It's a good place for them to be in.

Please name one single other nation which had both its free forces and its official forces invited to the victory parade. Just one please.


And Polish fantasists like you can continue to repeat your tired old lies. Keep whining about not getting the quadruple helping that you insisted on having and keep lying about only being offered crumbs.

I'm very secure thanks: I know precisely what the facts are. You on the other hand are so insecure that you are forced to lie, lie and keep lying. Pathetic.

I suppose Malorussia would be a proper name for today's Ukraine.


Not to promise help when lacking the forces.

a) If Britain had done nothing in 1939, Poles would still be whining and moaning about it now.
b) Doing nothing would have had no effect at all anyway.
c) Britain didn't promise any help in September 1939.

Yes,because Britain promised help in August 1939 before the invasion.

That version is true!

So you are saying that Ukrainian language wasn't there in 1809? Ok, let me show you something, my beloved Socrates. Famous literary work by Ivan Kotlyarevkyj "Enejida" is considered the first purely Ukrainian work and was published in 1798. Here is some additional info:

"Ivan Kotlyarevsky's epic-style 1798 poem Eneyida (Ukrainian: Енеїда), is considered to be the first literary work published wholly in Ukrainian. Although Ukrainian was an everyday language to millions of people in the area now known as Ukraine, it was officially unrecognized and discouraged from literary use in the area controlled by Imperial Russia. Eneyida is a parody of Virgil's Aeneid, where Kotlyarevsky transformed the Trojan heroes of Virgil's Aeneid into Zaporozhian Cossacks". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Kotlyarevsky

Btw, learn Ukrainian and read "Enejida" - this is an amazing piece of literary art and very funny. You'll enjoy it. Otherwise, you can read it in Polish translation - I saw it in a store, but it didn't sound as well - original is always better.

Now about Ukrainian and Ruthenian languages and their intimate relationship:

"Scholars do not agree whether Ruthenian was a separate language or a Western dialect(s) of Old East Slavic, but it is agreed that Ruthenian has a close genetic relationship with it. Old East Slavic was the colloquial language used in Kievan Rus' (10th - 13th centuries).[1] It can be seen as a predecessor of modern Belarusian and Ukrainian".

"This linguistic divergence is confirmed by the need for translators during the mid 17th century negotiations for the Treaty of Pereyaslav, between Bohdan Khmelnytsky, ruler of the Zaporozhian Host, and the Russian state".

Ukrainian traces its roots through the mid-fourteenth century Ruthenian language, a chancellery language of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, back to the early written evidences of tenth-century Kievan Rus'.


Kyjiv, haha, have you ever been to the capital of Ukraine? I doubt it. It is one of the most beautiful cities in Europe. I am from L'viv and I love my city, but Kyjiv is beyond that.

I know that Gniezno was the oldest Polish city and capital.
"Early Slavonic settlements on the Lech Hill and the Maiden Hill are dated to 8th century. At the beginning of the 10th century this was the site of several places sacred to the Slavic religion. The ducal stronghold was founded just before AD 940 on the Lech Hill, and surrounded with some fortified suburbs and open settlements".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gniezno

"Kiev was founded in the 5th centuryby East Slavs. The legend of Kyi, Schek and Khoryv speaks of a founder-family consisting of a Slavic tribe leader Kyi, the eldest, his brothers Schek and Khoriv, and also their sister Lybid, who founded the city. Kyiv/Kiev is translated as "belonging to Kyi".

Visit it Kijiv some day and you will understand what I am talking about - it is 1,500 years old with history which spans many epochs and events, battles and cultures, clashes of religions... It is unbelievable. I recommend it to anyone. It is also located on the 4th largest river in Europe - Dnieper - very green with many parks and lots of churches and museums...

We are NOT talking about Soviet Poles and parade in Moscow. At least I'm not. So I'm editing accordingly.


Calling some government 'pathetic' is still an opinion, not a fact. If I'd say that Harry is usually knee-deep in hypocrisy, half-truths, feigned outrage, and sanctimonious claptrap - that would be also an opinion. Or would that be a fact?


Good one. Like Harry's '45/'46 parade. Payback is a b1tch :)


and will.

The "inconvenient facts" you edited out of my quote relates to Poles and the parade in London NOT Moscow:

... After the British Government decided to switch its recognition from the Polish Government-in-exile in London to the Polish Provisional Government in Warsaw, it no longer felt obliged to invite the armed forces of the exiled Government to the victory parade that was to be held in London in 1946. Instead it asked Warsaw to send its men to attend...

Just in case you miss it:
Instead it asked Warsaw to send its men to attend...

... The delegation from Warsaw never arrived. Warsaw's military attaché in London, Colonel Kuropieska, was never told why his superiors had decided not to attend....

It appears to me that these "inconvenient facts" seem just too hard for you to swallow ?

You are lying about the London parade, editing the truth to suit your bitter lies.


She also edits out the parts of the thesis you link to which talk about western command Poles being invited.

"As "The Times" reported at the time:
"The Polish Government accepted, but the contingent has not yet arrived. Unfortunately, it seems that none of the Polish servicemen who fought in the West under British command will take part. Polish airmen who took part in the Battle of Britain were invited, but they do not wish to march unless Polish soldiers and sailors of the Western Command can march with them." "

"Only 15 airmen were invited and they declined to take part. Formally the British were right. It was, after all, after they had recognised the Warsaw Government and had withdrawn recognition from the émigrés - but it hurt...."


Of course they are: they destroy her image of Poland as a poor victim of the nasty British.

IMO Poles were victims of not just the British and other Allies but also of the London Polish-government-in-exile and the fact it lacked any cohesion and unified vision for the Polish nation and thus became powerless to affect the outcome of the position it found itself in.

There are few voices that question the London based Polish-government-in-exile and how IMO it actually contributed to Poland's post-war fate. The only person that seemed to see the light before his untimely death was Sikorski (and his adviser Rettinger) who postulated settlement with the USSR and a post-war Poland with revised borders East (Curzon) and West (Oder-Neisse) along similar lines as they are today—good reason for some Polish factions to want rid of Sikorksi... if anyone did, that is ;-)

For those that are interested:

Poland's Place in Europe: General Sikorski and the Origin of the Oder-Neisse Line, 1939-1943
Sarah Meiklejohn Terry
Publisher: Princeton University Press
Pub. Date: February 1983
ISBN-13: 9780691076430

Oh, come on! Everybody knows that it was the British government who killed Sikorski!

.... forgot :-))

How could you forget after the Polish government so recently dug Sikorski's body up and gave it an autopsy which proves that the British killed him?!

It was there but it was only forming, there was no significant academic works in it, the Eneid you quote is the first such work and the revolutionary one, Poles for example wrote books in Polish for more than half a millenium by then.


Yes, lets compare Kiev and Warsaw:

Kiev skyline.
pictureninja.com/pages/ukraine/kiev-skyline.JPG
farm1.static.flickr.com/73/180923383_653f6740b5.jpg?v=0

Warsaw skyline.

eapoland.com/assets/images/warsaw-skyline.jpg
plfoto.com/zdjecia/679137.jpg

So yeah Kiev is a poor dump whether you like it or not.


We developed Lwów, our Polish architecture is the only saving grace of the city, the cities you controlled longer changed into dumps.


And look where its today? An underdeveloped fugly city bearing scars of communism.


I did, for a capital its nothing special. It only shows how much better off you were ruled by Poland :)))

Poland IS a victim. British nasty? Nah. Just selfish bastards who didn't honor commitment they took upon themselves willingly.


Harry, please come up with some fresh line; that 'you are lying' phrase got really tired and lost impact.


It appears that you are trying desperately to broaden the topic. So ones more, because I'm patient woman: I'm not discussing Soviet Poles; whether they were invited to London parade or not. Whether they attended or not. I don't care. I'm discussing London Poles and their invitation to London parade. Got that?


So inviting 15 Poles out of millions is fair to you? Oh, stupid me; of course we should be happy and thankful to get the invitation at all! So what that only for 15, hours before the parade and only when government relented to bad press. You have weird and twisted sense of fairness, Harry. We are proud bunch, we don’t take crumbs.

My goodness my eyes have been suddently opened, without this thread i would never have known that a world war could have a negative effect on a country if not the world. My deepest thanks to the OP for pointing this out, i mean without it i would have had no idea at all.

There i was thinking war was good

Let's narrow it down to this simple sentence again and if you still can't get it then more fool you.


As to there being millions of Poles in Britain in 1946 this is plainly more nonsense. Millions indeed--there are not even millions of Poles in Britain today... although Ealing sometimes feels like Lodz to me!!

When will Poles stop to whine about what happen in the past, and loook to work in future?

The Poles always stop to whine, what are you talking about? ;) ;)

When will they stop whining? Now that's a different question

it is possible that all those who do come to PF;)))))). Regular Polish citizens has better things to do - live and enjoy their lives. I know for a fact.

OH, NO. When Socrates becomes a president of Ukraine, when all the Jews will leave Poland, when all the world will eat kielbasa and becomes Roman Catholic, when everybody will have orange skin, eat pierogies and every University around the world will have a Polish Language department - which is NEVER.

Sorry, I could not resist:)

Did I forget something???

I will stop whining when everything stops being sh1t, when live stops
being such a bit*ch and whe the entire feckin world stops plotting
against Poland. Yes, I will stop whining then.

:)

Yes, when truth and justice prevail.

good luck:)

They should not had killed him, should they?


At last we have a past ! not like some .......say Albanians !


Did you practiced you humor on sheep's?
Just wounder .....))))0

Which part of 'we don't give a d--- what British Government felt' don't you understand? They had a moral obligation to honor those Polish soldiers who fought with them and for them. As I said previously: honor before politics. Period.


So now we are going to discuss numbers? Fascinating ... yawn ... cos, you know, numbers are key issue ... yawn

A moral obligation which was fulfilled when western command Poles were invited. Of course you will continue to lie about that inconvenient fact for as long as you live.

What was the meaning of this victory parade?Even the French were invited.Would a Pole like to be regarded a ''winner'' together with the French?