Poland and Ukraine

Pawian If we folow your way of thinking. We are very close in our opinions. Poland should build huge fence on eastern border with Ukraine.

If somebody wants to open company in Ukraine don't do it. If somebody would like to build house there - don't do it. One day Ukrainians can knock to your doors and claim that it is holly Ukrianian land on which everything should belong to true Ukrainians.

What are you driving at, no more pills for you today!


That my point those "elites" look only for their interest they don't give dam about polish, ukrainian or whomever except their own scum.


Is it? If Nathans views are some indication of nationalistic Ukrainians views as soon as they get their act together they will demand border on the San River because some forefather of Shevchenko used to shag sheep there. (not you Big Golden Sheep lol).


I give you tit for tat .


Yeah and you remember them all!?


Open your mind pawian, contact with me can be only beneficial for the lesser mind.


Ups ! truly? I bet Germans didn't forget about it!!!


You don't know?You should educated yourself before you start forming opinions based on your ignorance.


You must be polish part of the family Nathan was talking about the same empty answers - without value ! No more med for you pawian !))0


Oh yes **** happens, so if I will find out that


Polish you may be but I can say there two kind of Poles those with mentality and roots (I suppose)in servitude - serfs and free.

For some time I was attributing those differences to communist rule when they were tailoring education and mind of young pupils at the some time to suite Moscow plans and needs but lately I change my mind.

Anyone with only reading skills can find the way to think and act as a free man and proud patriot but prevent it can only lobotomy or genetics.

Descendent's of serfs are my half baked theory to explain phenomena of noninflected servitude - I bet many people will be happy!


Look pawian what it proves - it proves you utter ignorance and lack of understading the isuue, your stereotypes should be only yours but you are proud of them and your ignorance.

Well, argument to the point and concise (Nathan and pawian read and learn):
Those railways prove nothing as first engine was built in England in 1836 more or less and most of the track were build from 1846 to 1914 when Poland did not exist as a independent state. Therefore couldn't build any infrastructure in the modern meaning of the word.


Sure you know that or you think that if latter let me tell you, that you are not dam good at it, you poor sod!


Owners, you telling that only nobility owed the land?
strong weed man))))


The Austrio Hungarian Empire was a state and galicia was a part of the state and autonomy started in 1867, as for being part of the government - so what ?

Do you think that a fact that Obama is black will have a great impact on the situation of the American blacks? Not at all!


Well, dear Nathan I know all that except


part which is pure interpretation and not the true.
I was study this border question with care and consideration searching for the true, without prejudice to the heart of the issue - so believe me I know what I'm talking about!

Lwów was bulid by Rutheanian king Daniel, so what ?
His scions died out and the closed family member which happen to be king Kazimierz inherited his land, since then it is part of the Crown.

Where is the Ruthenian state, kingdom, county anything ?
Nope, null, zero or maybe Moscow the closest to Rusyn state as it goes but under the Tatar yoke ?
Face the true Nathan and stop make a fool of yourself, you are in the denial!

Hm, interesting? So what are your claims? that it was occupied and should be Polish because of the occupation?
1340
-(7 IV) Śmierć księcia halicko-włodzimierskiego Bolesława Jerzego II.
(16 IV) Kazimierz wyprawia się na Ruś Halicką.
Zdobycie i spustoszenie Lwowa.
Well, "spustoszenie" - it means inheritance?!


Where is Polish kingdom, king, Rzecz Pospolita, hm?
Ruthenian territories is part of Ukraine in its west.


I do face the truth and for you it may sound foolish because


.
The only thing I can tell you, Ironside is to accept the reality and facts. Lviv is Ukrainian city and will always be. Ukraine will never pretend on your territories and no one is going to shag your sheep (I hope there are enough sheep-shaggers in Poland - so no help is necessary :=))


You are saying that Pawian is a serf. He is a free person with open mind. I see you as imprisoned man in hatred and old chauvinistic ways seeking blood and pain for both nations.

What do you mean?
Gdansk was build by King Boleslaw, yet I agree with the fact that in 1918 it was German town regardless partition. Yet, for you a fact that some block build shanty town 800 years ago is more significant that it later history.

Inheritance is a fact and in Lwów could be some squatters - who cares it a detail and you make much of it!


Never say never !


Sure he is open minded because he is supporting your claims - bravo ! give him a candy!

Nathan, you keep abusing me all the time, calling names and so on, and yet you talking about my hate?!
You present hard line of the most chauvinistic view 1930s like, and yet you call me chauvinistic ?!!

Listen Nathan, I will level with you, at the beginning I was being a wee bit provocative in presenting my views. I was giving you rope because I suspected where you came from, but reality over come my expectations.

I could not have bothered you are the most chauvinistic and nationalistic person I have ever held conversation with!!!
Let put a few thinks right !
I don't hate Ukrainians, and I'm not chauvinistic if anything I find Ukrainian music and language attractive.
One from my family died faithing for Kiev to help build Ukrainian state, another as a kid was defending Lwów from local Ukrainians who with the help of the court in Vienna were trying to build separate state with Hapsburg as a monarch and with capitol in Vienna not Kiev.

So, don't talk to me about one Ukrainian nation!


Between 1349 and 1648 there is nothing which could be claim by Rusyns ( Moscow?) as their state not even shadow !Let's alone Ukraine.

I will state my view about history and present on Poland and Ukraine later as I have a live and have to finish now!
I'll do it without provocation and as concise and to the point as I can!
Please Nathan, no more ranting and personal insults, will you try?
For all you know I could have better claims to be successor of the Rusyns then you!

Well , I didn't say about sheep-shagging by ancestors of one of the greatest Ukrainian poets. Of course, no more personal insults. Agreed.


I doubt it.


Ironside, would you please explain this? What did these local Ukrainians do to Poland if they wanted to build a separate state with even capital in Vienna as you claim. You see that these people where willing to live in Habsburg empire than even have dealing with Poles of the past who closed churches, burnt libraries, made lives miserable by paramilitary bands of strzelcy, supported by police. You have to agree that your country was behaving outrageously against all norms of democracy and national tolerance. And if these people wanted what they wanted on their territory what is the problem?


Moscow was built in 13th century thousands miles away. Does it have connection to Lviv and king Danylo? Give me a break. Here is your chauvinistic side where you do everything possible even give Russians some credit just to support your baseless ideas.

Nathan, easy. The guy isn`t Polish, he is only trying to start animosities between Poles and Ukrainians. He is trying but doesn`t know that we won`t allow him to provoke us. :):):):)

He also doesn`t know what he is speaking about, he only writes what his bosses tell him. :):):):)

E.g., he seems to suggest to give up Gdańsk. No normal Pole would trade Gdańsk for Lvov. :):):):)


Gdańsk is a truly Polish city now with German past, while Lvov is a fully Ukrainian city with Polish past. All three nations had stormy relations in this past, but now it is time to bury the hatchet and live in Europe like normal people, instead of revoking old nationalist demons.

That is why, Ironside, I consider you a harmful provocateur if you propose to demand lands or territories. And you aren`t even Polish. You haven`t answered my request to utter a few words which once were used as as a nationality test on the citizens of the Polish state, to catch out those who only pretended to be Polish.

So, what are the words? I am giving you one more chance.... :):):):)

Why are you doing such stupid things such as these provocations?


Who is abusing who here? You got your addresses wrong.... :):):):)

Here is a handful of your lovely arguments for the discussion. Why do they make about half of all your posts??? :):):):)


Do you really have to??? :):):):) What`s your interest in it?? :):):)


:):):):):)


Let`s call it a draw, then, and develop good relations.

For Ironside: read a few excerpts.
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612921/Ukraine/30063/Lithuanian-and-Polish-rule

In 1924 the Ukrainian language was eliminated from use in state institutions and government agencies. In the face of economic stagnation, scant industrial development, and vast rural overpopulation, the government promoted Polish agricultural settlement, further exacerbating ethnic tensions. As Ukrainian nationalist activities quickened toward the end of the 1920s and in the '30s, the regime resorted to more repressive measures. Some organizations were banned, and in 1930 a military and police pacification campaign led to numerous arrests, widespread brutality and intimidation, and destruction of property.

You are so Lesser. Germans ivaded Poland and killed 6 milion people thousends of for example Kashubs.

Stop puting yourself down.

Destroyed most Polish cities:

They started war murdered milons of Poles with for exampe their Ukrainian allies ... and lost.

Why German allies got Lwów ? Murdered 500 000 and rest was expeled to Poland.

Today they celebrate SS Galitizen as their heros.

As I've said:

Let them celebrate their heros alone with SS posters on Lwów streets.

Let me ask you again. Why are you speaking on behalf of Poland and Poles and demanding anything from Ukraine if you aren`t Polish? Leave Poles and Ukrainians alone and let us develop good relations. If you want to join us, we will gladly accept you, because we have nothing against Russians. They are great people, indeed.

But to be accepted into company you must stop this childish trouble making, like below:


I can see a great inconsistency of yours. You advocate Poland as a bridge between the West and the East:


And in the above post you propose this

Can you see the incongruency of your views?

Last but not least.


You are spreading false info, Solo. The picture you posted doesn`t present the Polish victims of UPA. They are gypsy children killed and hanged on a tree by their mentally ill gypsy mother. The incident happened before the war and a dozen years ago it surfaced with a false attribution of UPA atrocities.

But Polish historians already resolved the matter. As a non-Polish guy, you can`t know such things.

Really last one


Solo, how about cracking that riddle? :):):)

I don't know your measures of Polishness but if it is Ukrainian a ss licking ... we are not in the same company :)

What is more I am not sure if you are talking on behalf of Poles who lost something there.


It seems that I am not in the same company as you. It seems that my company is bigger and bigger ...

rp.pl/bezkresy

Aren't this articles writen by Poles... YES THEY ARE. Read how those Polish parners on east deal with Polish miniority ... Polish heritage ect.


Link ?


Jesteś psychiczny.

Honestly saying I don't look on Ukrainians by prismate of history but I am simple disillusioned about them.

No, we aren`t. Your company is that of Russian ass lickers. :):):):)


It is natural that old people who were born in once Polish Ukraine have fond memories of their home. But they are individuals who belong to the past, while we are talking about modern Polish interest.


Why so distrustful? :):):)
It is strange you can`t google it for yourself. :):):)

I have many links but they are all in Polish. It might create a problem for you.


:):):) The riddle is too difficult to google the answer??? :):):)

How about this? What is the name of the legendary Polish guy who was given a piece of jewellery by a certain foreigner but refused to accept it, saying famous words??

:):):)

Few $ which could be transfered to Poland isn't the past. What is more, nobody will take them to NATO (aliance stability). EU - look on european coutries budgets and debt - forget about it. Even if mission promoted by Pawian had chances - they would be our natural enemy in EU... what is more they wouldn't think about business but just to prove us something.

What is more, for celebrations they make in Lwów:




:-))))))))))

Ok, I will be nice. Know that we, Poles, are kind-hearted people. :):)

Here is the link to an English version.
forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=121419

And here in Polish for you to practice the language.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianna_Doli%C5%84ska


Still too difficult?
What about this: what peculiar incident caused the termination of the Jagiellonian dynasty? A hint: it was the king who behaved stupidly and his lineage suffered in result.

Similar idea touched me as well. How could one that much discredit the great Ukrainian nation?! Anatoly (Nathan) must be no other but Russky then... It's nothing else but their habitual hanky-panky.


I did read same version too. This may be true...

Oh, my! Do you really need to be so greedy? Suck Germans, suck Ukrainians, suck everybody for money. It is disgusting.
But....
Why don`t you demand compensation from Russia which openly admits to be the successor/heir of the Soviet Union??? If you are so sensitive to Polish suffering in the East, why do you ignore that inflicted by Soviets? Solo, if you want to remain consistent and credible, you must publicly state that you demand compensation from Russians. :):):):)


Are we talking about Ukrainian access in 2010??? :):):)


Enemy? For the time being you are the greatest enemy of Poland. :):):):)


I can see you took up prophecy.
Hmm, have you got papers that you are a certified prophet? :):):):)

You made one spelling mistake, Salomon - "jestem".
Nothing else to add. It is obvious how you try to undermine Polish-Ukrainian relations. But I am glad there are people in our countries which will not follow your provocations. Ukraine is in many peaceful operations of NATO right now since 1990s. It is long way to go. But partnership with Poland is a big benefit for both, economically and politically. Thanks again for support, Poland.

But its not though is it S'. Last time I was in Warsaw I saw a few nazi flag stickers on walls and a couple of swastikas daubed as graffiti. Did I immediatly think all of Poland supported the neo nazis or did I just think,"well,there are idiots everywhere..".?


Again,why,get over it,all of europe lost out thanks to uncle adolfs extended gap year jaunts...why is it always money for some people? And no,I dont single out any ethnic or religious groups when I say this either.

It doesn't change the fact that according to Davies they murdered 500 000 Polish people and criminals are their heros... Lwów has been ethnicly cleanised.


Ukes robbed Polish people.


In my opinion Nathan should talk with Bratwurst about that :-))))

As to history I've just presented paranoid perspective when Ukes are the good and Russians the bad. It seems that in 20th century it wasn't only the Russians.

When Russia will live in good relationship (parnership) with Europe - Poland will have very comfortable life. (Ukes in such situation will have safty as well).

I did say to you!


Do you know?


We haven't been discussing times from 1918 to 1939 yet!

I'm talking about Defense of the Lwów after I WW ended.

youtube.com/watch?v=Fo-EjNzZs2k

Those people defended their territory.


I'm saying that from 1349 to 1648 there wasn't Rusynian state or nothing you could claim as such let alone Ukraine - thats all!
You notice that Moscow had a question mark - as I had not said what you implying.


plsssssssssssssssss?! weed again?

Have to admit I saw this on RT a few days ago and did find it rather surprising.Its one thing to say allow old boys to draw a state pension but quite another to award a countries highest honors to former officers in nazi uniform.....quite badly missjudged,especially considering the Galizien Div hardly ever fought the RKKA and spent most of the war hunting partizans and ended up being sheltered in the UK after the war....weird,but then again,radioactive poisoning by the FSB probably has odd side effects on ones personality.

Now it`s my turn.


Link?
And I don`t mean the only one from Wiki....

I am afraid you won`t find it. The number 500.000 applies to all Polish victims in the East, most of them died at Soviet hands.

But you can always try....

Hey, what about my Polish Identity Test questions? Are you unable to answer any of them? Even with google???
Strange, strange..... :):)

Oh yes ... pretend that it was the soviets.

I have program from TV ... what is more it is TV from Kraków.



:)


I have great fun with you :)

And the other side as well. So what do you want to say here? Let they rest in peace whoever died in the that senseless war, Polish and Ukrainians.


I know, but there is no more Polish king either, so? Also why didn't you put Ukraine and question mark? Hard?


In the Soviet zone 1.5 million Poles (including women and children) were transported to labour camps in Siberia and other areas. Many thousands of captured Polish officers were shot at several secret forest sites; the first to be discovered being Katyn, near Smolensk.

kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/history/WW2.html

Well thanks for link :


The fact that Poland wasn't compensatet is strange, very strange. If Poland allied with Soviets in 1939 ... wouldn't be harmed so much. All in all finaly sobody ealse had taken compensations which should belong to Poland. Wilno and Lwów have been taken away ... population murdered or expeled ... ... Poland should fight for what should belong to her.... Think twice when it comes to aliances.... sometimes smaller evil is better...

Trolling again?

I am not trolling. I'm telling simple truth.

Poland is like little child which by mistake has been send on winter holidays on ... Syberia. Now after come back small poor Poland is in nice club, Poland has cola for free, chips, TV ... other childern from the club who stayed in home durring Polands trip on Syberia some times make jokes from Poland... that Poland is poor, that clothes are not new (but alwyas clean) that she has funny complexes but all in all club isn't bad.

In next 10 years Poland should concentrate on herself, buy nice skirt, bike, playstation ... and now Poland should ask some chidren about the toys which were stolen ... and why?

It is not Russian agent advice ...

It is how I see the right way of life for my country.

Stop pawian you are humiliating yourself.
And I can answer all your stupid riddles but it prove nothing!
What animosities? We are having discussion on PF not making political decisions!
You seems do not mind Nathan's attitude yet you slandering me for standing up to defense of Poland interest.
Find yourself another thread as you are out of your liege here.
I will answer your riddles under one condition you admit being moron and stop making post's on this thread as there are of no value and prove only you serfs mentality.

Are you to the challenge pawian?


Oh I'm abusing you ,sure but not Nathan
You wonder why ?
Read your posts !


Not at all ! He is receiving money from stronghold of Ukrainian nationalist's and scions of the SSGalicien and UPA members in the Canada.
Nathan is living in that country - what a coincidence?!!


So , your claim as to many years of occupation by Poland is empty one and baseless!
Even if one assume that Rusyn = Ukrainian!
As for question mark I'm not you !

Why are you giving me some boring programme if I asked you about the link to the information about 500.000 victims???

Please, stop spreading false information because you are losing all credibility. The number 500.000 of Poles killed by nationalist Ukrainians is not true, Polish historians have already proved it. Even Norman Davies in his book "Ethnic Diversity in Twentieth Century Poland." says:

Polish Ukrainian antagonism led during and after the war to genocidal massacres on both sides, with thousands Ukrainian civilian being killed in central Poland and tens of thousands of Poles killed in Volhynia and Podolia.

Tens of thousands isn`t 500.000, is it????

So, stop lying about history, Solo. The numbers are much lower and range from 30 to 70 thousand.


I knew you wouldn`t be able to pass the Polish identity test. :):):):)

Again, may I ask you, what is your interest in conflicting Poles and Ukrainians? Leave us alone. Russia is a great country in big trouble, they need you there. :):):):)


No, it shouldn`t. Don`t be daft.


:):):):) Hey, was it an evening tale to put us to sleep more quickly???? :):):) If yes, you almost succeeded.:):):):)


Do you think we will believe you after your earlier lies??? :):)


Really?? I haven`t noticed it. :):):):)


Of course you can`t. Or can but only after heavy googling and consultation with your Russian friends who are better oriented in Polish history. :):):):)

That is why I have to turn down your pathetic offer below:


Of course I won`t give up this thread because pathetic pests who are ready to harm Polish interest must be opposed everywhere they appear. Poniał, towariszcz?? :):):)


You are not defending anything, blockhead, you are damaging it and only you know why you are doing it.


No. I will stay here and fight all anti-Polish parasites. :):):)


Do you really need to be an aswhole??? :):):):)

Well, maybe because you are an idiot!
Who is so narrow minded that cannot comprehend that someone can have different opinion on the subject!


So, make up your mind mind - can I or not?
If I can and you saying that it prove nothing - you are wrong it proves that your contribution to this thread is of no value!

Riddles that prove nothing, random statements of no value at all, insults, and pathetic accusations?
Can you understand that I have different opinion that you, so should I call you ukainian agent ? Poor ole demented sod, ah and too much weed!

£okietek
Krzywousty
Zygmunt Stary
Mówi ci to coś przygłupie?


And coward as well!?

Hmm, I can see your history-oriented friends helped you a lot but still they couldn`t cope with Krzywousty riddle. :):):) I didn`t ask about the king, I asked about the guy who gave up a piece of jewellery.


Look, baranie, :):):) I don`t care what opinion you have. But I care when you usurp yourself the right to speak in the name of the Polish nation and demand anything from Ukraine, if you even aren`t Polish yourself. That`s what ails me and that is why I think you are aswhole. Add to it your idiotic views on Poland and Ukraine and the relations between them, as well as your blindness what Poland`s political interests are.

Poniał, towariszcz? :):):)

I rent a house from a Polish lady, have many Polish friends and make most of my food purchases in Polish store. There is also a Ukrainian club where we go watch boxing together and have some nice beer on hot summer week-ends. Somehow we do it and there is not even a bit of animosity between us.

And you even dare to demand Pawian to leave the site because his opinion is normal relations of both nations and not fighting without end for nothing, when only third side profits and both of us are bleeding to death. Ironside, come to senses. People want to live, to travel, do business. How many more wars do you need?