Russia: Poland responsible for WW II

Listen kid, are 21 ?
If you are older than that I suggest instead of reading history books , hunting or fishing.
You simply are not good.

Gdansk? Whats your point?Be precise and concise, because up to now you are not making much sense.

nope, both wrong


I did too and mine are more convincing to me and few others here too


yep, redneck from NYC, lmao. You're an pathetic moron.


I was very specific and presented historical facts which you don't like, your problem. You see, none of you (neither you or sokrates) is man enough to agree at least to that one, that your (what you believe, no doubt) truth might be not true. You don't even try to go that far because what you're convinced about is whatever is Polish IS automatically the truth and this is also a reason why you Poles are being ignored so often.

What kind of archeology can show that the city was built by Poles. They found "Gazeta Wyborcza" there or something?


Poles are majority of Danzig, maybe, 300 years at best. The rest of the time it was Germans who made up the bulk of the population.

Well, a lot of worlds to tell me no....
You said something but I don't care to look over all your posts.
And for last time, you weren't discussing Gdansk with me!
I was only chiding you for your attitude and sweeping generalizations about Poles and Polish history.
Want debate give me material not your opinions about bad Poles are.......!
If you don't then don't!


Sonny, what do you know about archeology?)))))


Really ? Ukrainians never were majority in Lwów!!!!

not even to that time the spoken language in Danzig was Polish

True. Even occupied it spoke German predominantly.


I know, Wonderlandian inhabited most of the time.

Ironside, objective history states that 997 AD was the year of formation of what is now called Gdańsk, true?

I wonder why they didn't renovate the old beautiful "polish style" of Danzig instead the old hanseatic german style Bürgerhäuser to get tourists in to the town?

allgdansktours.com/tours/gdansk-royal-way.php


(What is "polish style" actually?)

Danzig had a population of 98 percent Germans till 1945, was the birth town of many famous Germans and has a renown german architecture!
(And even before some Poles put a sign in the soil some Goth pissed on it BEFORE)

To ignore the german past of Danzig and make it to "it has always been polish" is just not true (outside of Poland that is).

But then...my remark stands..."There are two different kinds of histories, the polish version and everybody elses!"

:)

Bolesław I Chrobry came with soldiers with the support of Adalbert. Hardcore Christians maintain that this Czech bishop, who was subsequently canonised, baptised the city and formed it in 997 AD. What most sources fail to mention is that their efforts to overcome the Prussians failed. I believe he tried again in 1015 and failed until the Teutonic Knights took over in the Prussian Crusade in the 1200's.

yep, obviously it must be so.

I mean c'mon they got the city now, why the hell is it so hard to admit that before 1945 it wasn't Polish?
Also to say that Danzig was built by the Poles. All it takes is to look at the list of the famous names in Danzigs history. The only one I found that sounds Polish is Daniel Chodowiecki but even he claimed to be both German and Polish. The rest of the architects came from Belgium, Holland and Germany.


exactly but I bet our friends "ironside" and "sokrates" will find their ways to deny this fact.

It's the same story as Copernicus. He identified with his German side as much as his Polish side but that isn't acknowledged in Polish sources.

Germans had enough they didn't need Danzig. It was selfish greed on their behalf to demand it!
Poland needed it to help their struggling economy.

And what makes you say that??? Did he told you that? :)


Well..."they" hardly "demanded" it.
It was the population of Danzig which found themselves suddenly outside of Germany, cut off without any connection, because of some clueless border drawing far away by spiteful foreigners and who wanted nothing else but back home.

How selfish of them!

They mainly voted later for the one man who promised them that!
What about the right of self-determination?

Come on, BB, I said Polish sources. Even suggest that Copernicus is anything less than 100% Polish and they get offended. I've seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears.

Danzig was Prussian for a long time, PP. Look at your historical sources. 997 AD is accepted as the year of its formation. Was it Polish then? Or did Bolesław's army lose and try again in 1015? You tell me. It's not a question of need at all.

I don't care actually!
Everybody knows that Poles and Germans in this regions mixed, that borders changed alot, whole towns changed hands back and forth for centuries!

I only object to people who want to scratch out the german centuries in these lands totally.
Next they say the first book printing in Krakau was also done by a Pole and not a German! :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_printing_in_Poland

oh please girl we're not talking about the needs, we're talking about historical facts. Why would Germans give Danzig to Poland? Just because Poland needed it more? lol. Please tell me you didn't say it. You're otherwise so cute :-)


very much so, no doubt, lol

True, but it has a Polish connection too and Poland was in greater need. Otherwise it wouldn't have gone to Poland in the first place.

You are BB, not PP. You have a helmet but I think you now need glasses ;) ;)

So, BB, let's be clear. When can you lay claim to any given territory? At the date of formation or can subsequent events change things? Do you accept 997 AD as the date of formation of Gdańsk? If so, would you apply the same standard to the ME problem between Israel and Palestine?

PP, need? Africans need food and better sanitation but do they get it? The West has milked and leeched off of Africa for a long time. Starving it of key natural resources. Don't the Palestinians need a place to stay? Don't refugees need safety from NATO bombs? America orchestrated a battering policy to make Yugoslavia needy. Is this the kind of example you want to set?

And what about the Germans populating the town?
What about their needs?

do you mean after the WWII? Look PlasticPole, the town was practically German. The population (according to wiki. I know different numbers too) was 95.3% German and 3.28% Kashubians and Masurians, which to the high extent also claimed to be Germans.

Of course I accept the date if it's mainstream knowledge.
But I just wonder what the Poles did all this time in "their town"?
The list of polish famous people from Danzig is quite...erm...short...
What about the architecture?
Even if the Poles founded Danzig their imprint on this town is really small!

What's the worse that could of happened? Sure they would have been under a Polish flag but could it have been that bad if everyone cooperated?

You don't know much about the history of these lands, don't you?
Astounding that you have still such a firm judgement
about all.
Poles and Germans weren't the best neighbours in those times. In short they hated each other. Polish policy against all minorities wasn't much better than the later Adolfs ones.

The Polish government wanted to force the Germans to take on polish citizenship or to leave...a forerunner of the later ethnic cleansing.
If you were a German and wanted nothing else but BACK HOME, would you just say..."Hey...who cares...now I'm polish...doesn't matter..."?

No, you wouldn't!
The same as Poles still wanted their own country and wanted to stay Poles during their partitions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig#Population

"Free city" my a*ss:

Good point by BB. Is America now Spanish or Portuguese? NOPE! So, BB, you accept 997 AD as the formation date. Did Mieszko I's son (Bolesław I Chrobry) defeat the Prussians in either 997 AD or 1015 AD?

PP, why does it matter so much to you? Look at James Baker who said that the US could "never" be the world's policeman. 10 years later, he was made to swallow his words.

???

Why not take on Polish citizenship? Why is it such a big deal anyway? With a little diplomacy it would have been a non issue.

If the city belongs to Poland there has to be some kind of compromise. They have to take the citizenship because they are in Poland. I don't see it as being unreasonable when you put it in context with the policies of other nations.

Seanus, there you go again. We aren't the world's policeman. We didn't police the Danzig situation. It just happened :P
Can't blame us!

Are you kidding???


They didn't BELONG to Poland! That's the crux of the matter...
They got one evening to bed as Germans in Germany and woke up as a minority in a new hostile country! Just like that! Without their doing or fault!

And you just shrug and say..."get used to it"???
Are you really that thick???
Why weren't your Poles satisfied with being under prussian or austrian rule one could ask the same!

It's not a matter of who speaks what language anyway. If ownage was decided on language alone, half the US would belong to Mexico :P

geez, just go and see yourself all you people who don't believe, whole bunch of German (if not then latin but not Polish tho) writings all over oldtown buildings and that after beautiful Polish restoration after being totally destroyed during the WWII.


nothing wrong with Polish flag but not for a town populated almost only by the Germans.


let's be honest about, almost never


not even close but a nice try lol

PlasticPole, are you as pretty as you sound? I just wonder :-)

It doesn't matter if Germans occupy the town. Would you give LA to Mexico because of all the Mexicans who speak Spanish? Who lives there isn't really an issue if you compare it to other countries and their policies in such matters. With your logic US would give Houston to Mexico.


That sounds like a trick question.