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Poland-Russia: never-ending story?


celinski 31 | 1,258  
19 Feb 2008 /  #1,261
Main thing is military education, which Red Army was devoided in cotrast to Polish Army which consisted of expirienced wariors, not peasant as in RA

Russian Army were peasants? Where is this from, seems to me Poland had the same trainnning as Russian. I have a picture of a 12 year old great uncle as POW, wonder what his trainning was?

12 year old great uncle as POW,

That should be great uncle.

Well this went well. LOL

"If there were a prize for the world's sulkiest state, it would surely go to Russia. "

The Kremlin has a simple explanation: America, it believes, has never given up its ambition to contain Russia. And the eastward expansion of the Nato alliance is designed to achieve that.

But Washington dismisses those claims as mere bluster, aimed at reasserting Russian control of an Eastern European empire it lost with the fall of the Soviet Union.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7252678.stm
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
20 Feb 2008 /  #1,262
We tolked about 1919 year, do you remember? Just in 1919 RA was totally peasant and it's full official name was Red Army of Peasants and Workers (Raboche-Krest'yanskaya Krasnaya Armiya). It should be pointed that in 1919 the tsarist's Army was abolished and its remnants were included in White Guard, which was against RA. In contrast, Polish Army almost totally comprised officers who were educated in Russian military high schools during tsarist's times when Poland was a part of Russia.
JuliePotocka 5 | 188  
20 Feb 2008 /  #1,263
America and Russia need to stop tussling in the sandbox, and play nice. Both have lost power, and no one really cares much for the antics of the previous super powers - unless they both BEHAVE.

High School is still High School - not being trained in an Army.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
20 Feb 2008 /  #1,264
America and Russia need to stop tussling in the sandbox, and play nice. Both have lost power, and no one really cares much for the antics of the previous super powers - unless they both BEHAVE.

It's no a question of Russian-American relations, though it is too complicated, but it's a local problem between Poland and Russia for the first place amongst Slavic nations and for the crown of the most civilized culture. I think we couldnt throw asander this topic. Take a look on the name of this discussion!
JuliePotocka 5 | 188  
20 Feb 2008 /  #1,265
No duh! I was addressing what someone had said - topics meander, like regular conversations - in case you didn't notice. We're on page 52, so it's rather stretched out by now.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,266
Last night on BBC I heard that Pres. Putin is going to join the west with santions on Iran, could Putin really be concerned for Poland? I couldn't believe this, here he give the Iran the means to make this threat and now he's made this statement. I had to wonder if Putin himself ran into difficulity working with Iran or is this a way for him to change the way Russia fits into the puzzle, any thoughts?
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,267
Sorry Mam but dont see any connection between Iran and Poland. Nobody is concerned about Poland. Just there is such small country, just a country, little country.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,268
Was Iran not the country why Poland really needed the anti missile shield to be aimed toward? The connections are and have been there IMO.
southern 75 | 7,096  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,269
Sorry Mam but dont see any connection between Iran and Poland. Nobody is concerned about Poland. Just there is such small country, just a country, little country.

Do you imply that Poland is less important than Iran?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,270
Nobody is concerned about Poland. Just there is such small country, just a country, little country.

Seems to me for a little country she is growing "Pretty Big and Strong". Please do not speak for others, the way I see it a super power is concerned about Poland. Need I say more.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,271
Was Iran not the country why Poland really needed the anti missile shield to be aimed toward? The connections are and have been there IMO.

Unfortunately I dont remember any words of Iranian governors which were addressed against poland itself.

Do you imply that Poland is less important than Iran?

Sure yes! Iran has an independant policy, in contrast Poland sleeps under US protection, though we can name it as protectorat.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,272
Poland sleeps under US protection

And Iran is not getting anti missile from Russia?
matthias 3 | 429  
28 Feb 2008 /  #1,273
Constantine, please stop being an idiot....... ... don't get angry at Poland for being so close to US. If Russia knew how to behave, Poland wouldn't need such a close relationship. Blame Russia not Poland.

Carol, Iran is not a threat to Poland.. they actually just signed an oil deal for 1 billion. However Russia is a threat that needs to be contained.... and might I add Poland and US are doing one he*l of a job so far....
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
29 Feb 2008 /  #1,274
Carol, Iran is not a threat to Poland.. they actually just signed an oil deal for 1 billion. However Russia is a threat that needs to be contained.... and might I add Poland and US are doing one he*l of a job so far....

Sooooo??? In full according with your words, this PRO is dedicated not for Iran but against Russia, so our fear is true!!! First, stop to lie that this system is only to protect europe from iran!!!

Constantine, please stop being an idiot....... ... don't get angry at Poland for being so close to US.

We are not angry, but it seems to us that Poland once again as previousely in its history made a gamble in wrong direction.

ConstantineK wrote:
Poland sleeps under US protection

And Iran is not getting anti missile from Russia?

Sure not!
matthias 3 | 429  
29 Feb 2008 /  #1,275
For US, Its probably against Iran and a small extent Russia.... For Poland its about Russia and who knows any other country that can turn into an enemy of Poland...... So what , are you telling me a country can't build defensive weapons.... My friend can you say defensive.... meaning only if we get attacked.... why would Russia be so angry with a weapon that will be used to protect Poland and not attack Russia? Does Russia want to keep the option open of attacking.....

I don't care if the shield is used to protect us from the Pope.... the shield is defensive and if your not planning on attacking, you have nothing to worry about.....

Also I don't recall Poland or US crying about Russias anti air defence systems....
janekb - | 57  
29 Feb 2008 /  #1,276
Americans thanks to the political ignorance (lack of education) are still in war with Russia (I am not sue if Bushy boy knows that it not USSR now). While hey are basking in a feeling of dominance and of being the only superduper they not only want acknowledgement of this status from the previous (no longer existing adversary) but feel need to humiliate Russia. Like many empires it is the most aggressive and hostile during its waning days. World should be thankful that Iraq adventure is their last, to start the next they will have to gat a permission from Beijing.

What’s more important is how Poles can play this game. History teaches that treaties are not worth much. The specific geographical position will not allow to be separated from Russia (Russia is not going away). With Ukraine, Belarus we have similar traditions of hostility. EU offers degree of sustained protection. Building a strong military makes little sense, except as an American Foreign Legion, unless US wants to pay for it and there will be a voluntary force (to get rid of idiots who otherwise may be dangerous). Building a wall on the eastern border makes little economic sense. Similar language and culture may serve well in commerce. It seems that present US administration wants to surround Russia. The unreciprocated love for America by Poles may be the source of willingness to do US bidding regardless of self interest. The rational way to establish a strong position for Poland is to spend funds on education and infrastructure.
matthias 3 | 429  
29 Feb 2008 /  #1,277
JaneKB doesn't realize(lack of education)that Russia is using Gasprom as political tool, is rolling back democracy, is responsible for cyber attack on Estonia, is threatening Poland with nukes for building DEFENSIVE weapons, has killed dissents on foreign soil, etc.....

Please educate yourself on what Russia is up to before you respond to this post...

Also educate yourself on China, its going to take them at least 50 years to catch up to the US.

PS the shield is in polands interest.... a package worth 20 billion, much more then Russia can offer... not to mention we are still trading with Russia regardless of our intention to base the shield...

JanekB wrote:

Building a strong military makes little sense........

wtf are you blabbering about...... why is Russia trying to build one then? do you know how naive you sound?....

according to your logic, lets just get rid of the entire Polish military then....lol while where at it the whole police force.... why need that.... or the fire department... no use for that either... we can save a lot of money....
celinski 31 | 1,258  
1 Mar 2008 /  #1,278
Please use the link and read the full artical.

Please educate yourself on what Russia is up to before you respond to this post...

Polish defiance built on British intel
By Gordon Thomas

Britain's Secret Intelligence Service has played a role in providing Poland with information allowing the Warsaw government, which came to power last November, to let America base its "Son of Star Wars" missile defense system in the country.

The Polish deal has infuriated Russian President Vladimir Putin and damaged his carefully laid plans for his successor, Dmitry Medvedev, to develop Russian influence in Central and Eastern Europe.

Poland's decision to allow the defense system to be sited on its soil is a bold defiance of Moscow and could yet have far reaching consequences in the struggle between Russia and the West that has increasing echoes of the Cold War.

canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2084
JuliePotocka 5 | 188  
1 Mar 2008 /  #1,279
I am very pleased that Poland is using intel at her fingertips to protect her Dupa!
matthias 3 | 429  
1 Mar 2008 /  #1,280
Lol..... dupa....

Poland's is willing to pay the political price to protect her dupa (hehe) and in the process the dupa of many countries in Europe....

Thank God for the intelligence of America and Poland in this matter....

I know Im a little immature laughing at dupa... its just such a funny word...
JuliePotocka 5 | 188  
2 Mar 2008 /  #1,281
I know, but it's also the most appropriate word for the situation, after our mother Poland was bent over rather hard over the past century...ergo, Dupa!

Poland is making sure that she and her children aren't going to suffer like in the past, ever again!
matthias 3 | 429  
2 Mar 2008 /  #1,282
JuliePotocka wrote:

after our mother Poland was bent over rather hard over the past century...ergo, Dupa!

You captured that in just the right way........

To be honest Im surprised by the fact that some people are complaining about this... Especially people/governements in the EU.... why should Poland's dupa have to be exposed, just because Russia can't accept the fact that Poland is a sovereign country....

at least Poland is doing what needs to be done...
JuliePotocka 5 | 188  
2 Mar 2008 /  #1,283
Yes, big mother Poland is trying to take care of business in a preemptive sort of way. I am thankful that there will be a place for Poland's families and friends to visit for centuries to come!
matthias 3 | 429  
2 Mar 2008 /  #1,284
Poland's not out of the woods yet... We might be safer militarily.. however Poland is not immune to the whims of the Kremlim.. We also need to diversify our energy supplies... and then we can celebrate..
JuliePotocka 5 | 188  
6 Mar 2008 /  #1,285
Biofuels, Solar power, and perhaps like France: some Nuclear Power plants, to power the cities. France is one of the cleanest Nations, because of their use of Nuclear power, I was rather surprised by this.

I've known many people to spend the $1000 on their Diesel powered cars, and add a 'fish fry tank', lol. Now you smell french fries, or fish when they drive by (the discarded frying oil from restaurants. You can do a filtration system, to turn it into Biofuel).
matthias 3 | 429  
6 Mar 2008 /  #1,286
All good solutions that it will take some time to implement. In the next 10 to 20 years, I think we will be fairly secure. In the mean time we need to be cautious.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
8 Mar 2008 /  #1,287
I have great interview with Pipes about Russia - Poland - USA. Unfortunately only in Polish.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
8 Mar 2008 /  #1,288
I tell you what Pland-Russia is a never ending story on this website and its so boring and *****, everybody just goes round in cirlces, why not let it be now and get on with your lives either polish or ruski
matthias 3 | 429  
8 Mar 2008 /  #1,289
Your slowely starting to annoy me. In case you didn't notice new issues continue to appear and it's worthwile to establish and discuss the direction the relationship between Russia and Poland is going. Like you were told before, feel free to skip over the thread.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
8 Mar 2008 /  #1,290
There is no chance of being able to have a decent relationship with a communist state if you are yourself a democracy, maybe on an individual basis polish and ruski can get on but the nations, i doubt it. To much water under a very small bridge, thats why its important to try and move on.

Sorry if it pisses you of but its just another point of view

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