Poland-Russia: never-ending story?

EU isn`t serious. If ever was. Currently EU can offer some profitable arrangements but, that`s all and that would pass sooner or later,... sooner then later.

Slavs should learn to stick together, no matter their specific interests

What are our chances to survive as Slavs, if segmented and divided? We should at least form some alliance in economic, cultural and security sphere

Bartek, you have this ideal of an EU, which is great but in reality it does not behave in the way you idealize it.. Many countries in the EU don't give two sh*ts about Poland.. Poland should take care of its own interests..which means being an ally of the USA. not saying to do everything US says, but when something is reasonable then why not..once the EU learns the true meaning of solidarity and can grow a backbone to deal with Russia then maybe just maybe we might not need the USA.. Which even though we might not need them doesn't mean we shouldn't be allies with them..

Like to add no way in hell are you Polish...No intelligent polish person would be so pro Russia at a time the Kremlin is using gas as a political tool, issuing nuclear threats, orchestrating a cyber attack on estonia, etc....

I have to say that I agree with you on this one, matthias. First time, I believe : )

Well you know, it's about time.....was bound to happen eventually.....good to hear it

The nuclear threat wasnt directed at Poland directly... They mentioned missiles, but only if you put the antimissile radar. its a counterstep, Poland has the ability of choosing first.

And cyber attacks orchestrated from Kremlin... I just cant imagine Putin and Medvedev sitting in Kremlin trying to hack *.ee sites... That was just a flashmob. Many people I know took part and noone is even indirectly connected with Kremlin.

Poland has option of choosing first...lol what logic is that?
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What if Russia said that no Polish politician can travel to the US or any EU country or they will direct nuclear bombs at Poland.. According to your logic poland has a an option of choosing first.... I guess to you its not important that Russias has no right to make that demand and those threats..

that's like Poland saying we will bomb all oil pipelines in Russia if they build Nord Stream..

Kremiln cyber attack was initiaed in offices linked to the Kremlin and sure maybe others joined in but once again it started in Kremlin offices.. you forgot to deny the kremlin using oil as political tool....lol

please use better logic to defend Russia....

I am not pro Russian. I am Polish.

I don't like Putin and his policy. I just wanted to notice that maybe we shouldn't be more pro USA than rest of EU.

I would like EU be succesful, I know that when it will be unsuccessful we will have problems with Germans. USA will be on Germans side because they are more important partner for them.

Now we are member of EU and it is good. We should influence on EU policy and in our interest is EU being more suspicious towars Russia. All I think that we don't need USA and we shouldn't be used by them to make EU weaker (shield) and be their anti-Russian puppet.

We should be more asertive, what means we are part of EU. We have more and more influce in this organisation and this is fact. To moment EU exist we are safe.

When EU will be over (I hope never) USA will leave us alone and we should think about everything. Russia can be our potencial partner.

To show my point of view. We are part of EU. We are safe. We can have normal relations with Russia (Russians in past have been doing everything to make it hard I would say imposible)

We shouldn't be USA puppet in EU.

The fact is that USA wants this shield to make EU weaker they don't need strong EU.

Only one country who have special relationship with USA is Israel. We are not Israel our relations is only business last time more USA than our.

USA will not be on German side....In case you didn't notice their relationship is not very solid right now...Im not saying USA will choose Poland but at the very least they will remain neutral..

I too would like EU to be successful, problem is that when it comes to foreign policy, military and enegy the EU is not successful and Poland cannot rely on EU at this time.. Maybe one day in the future once EU grows a backbone and learns the meaning of solidarity...

US goal is too make EU stronger..America is tired of having to defend EU. Its in the interest of America for the EU to be powerful. Im surprised you don't see that... America just doesn't want one or two countries(France and Germany)to dominate EU decision making...

In case you didn't notice our problems with Russia have very little to do with US...its has more to do with Russias attitude toward former commie countries...our interests in eastern EU are opposite of Russian interests..this has nothing to do with US....No we are not puppets, lol......

From reading your post I get the impression your scared....Be it Russia or Germany.. do not worry Poland is fairly safe...

on a side note... if you think Russia and Germany want what's in Polands interest you are fooling yourself..

we are safe because we are part of EU not because USA is our ally. This the point. This is why only 20% Poles support project of this shield, it is not guaranty of our safety.

No EU offers political and economic security.......US offers military security... that is why we need to have good relationship with both....

I thought EU cowardness when it comes to Russia is fairly clear...

My point is we need to be friends with both EU and US...and even with Russia when they are ready...

Our friendship with Russia will be on our terms not Russias..

after EU treaty everything will change it would be good idea to get more influence in this organiastion. I don't know if you noticed (I think not) that we can influecne on EU and we do it. We used veto on EU-Russia talks. We can't do the same on USA-Russia talks. We can block all agreements between EU-Russia. We can't do it in relations Russia-USA. We use our EU rights, after EU treaty more decions will be made in Brussels and it seems we will be influencial country there. What can you say about Polands influence on US policy ?

Bartek the only reason we have gained any influence in the EU was because our relationship with the US.. Both EU and US are trying to buy our support....Its great let them both keep vying for our attention..

If you think Poland would have a say if EU knew that we can't go to America.. then your fooling yourself...look at what happened with Chiraq and Shroedar..only when we allied with US did these fools get replaced...it pays to be Americas friend..and the warming of ties with US and france and to a lesser extent Germany just shows you that these countries also realize that...

We don't need to influence America policy, we just need them to upgrade our military and aid us in case of war...

were never going to agree......your naive...

I am not going to comment your post :P

Could you please provide a link to these security guaranties from the EU? Or this is just psychological barrier?

:)

After the end of NATO, after the end of EU, after the end of USA, When Germans will knock our doors ;) and Russians will be super power again, we will think about your ideas Bartek86 :) Your vison is very original. Are you sure you are Pole ?

What do you think who you are? Do you really think, that at time of modern war technologies, the Polish territory has any significant interest both for Russia or Germany? The fact is, that if we would seize your state, we should care about you, but we have no enough money for it.

Have I said something about Germans and Russians wanting conquer our state :) in present time.

The phrase "knock in our door" in polish interpretation means only one thing - "...they want to seize our territory and to kill IV Rjech Pospolita"

You havent catch irony ? Have you ?

I will tell you , Russia is to weak to be member of club "2 countries run the world one of them is Russia" I will tell you, yes USA is not going to be hegemon in nearest future as it is now. China will be second player, and EU third.

Russia son't have potential, 140 mln people, uneducated, backward, poor, without technologies.

(to be clear Poland isn't Japan as well)

We can argue, if you want you can show me some Russian inventions in last few years.

You have lost most of your Soviet potnetial, now you have gas. It is very important you have it and it is only one thing which make you serious country. Now you don't have technologies, siencists, and every year Russia lose one milion of its citizens .

After you have choosen your own Political system, any serious company will not open research center in your country, only factories for lauborers.

I think China will be our potential partner in future. Next strong country, far away form Poland.

Finaly, I like Russians as people, I don't like Russian state. Last sentence is very common for Poles.

Polish?

there are some, as I said we are not Japan.

Russia is not Japan or USA.

Poland doesn't have ambitions to be independent block like USA or China. It is enought to be part of EU.

I think Russia should be more down to earth, you are important country, you are not super power. Russia is our neighbour and we should have contacts with your country.

That is all.

I am after lecture of aricle in Newsweek (polish edition) Denis Macshane writes that some europeans and americans wants to create free trade union between USA and EU, what is more with Ukraine ...

web3.aftenbladet.no/english/englishcomment/article586818.ece?service=print

read about it, it is Russian nightmare ;)

Poland will be our ally like France, Germany and Italy. It is fact. Forget about USA and UK you have choosen good way.

Balitc states will folow Poland as they always do, the same with Czech rep, Slovakia and Romania.

We apreciate your power in central europe.

You will get new 'Silk route' :) I think you have taken EU - Russian proposal and forgoten about stupid Brits and Americans. It is the new begining.

Dude....you're IN Poland....or do you just use Polish internet?

BTW we all need each other in 1 way..or another....well, except russia :)

Tusk visits Moscow: friendly words, but nothing accomplished

Warsaw, Poland February 11, 2008
warsawvoice.pl/newsX.php/5677/4259018804

these comments leave the USA and UK behind are beyond idiotic...hate to break it to you those countries have more to offer then Russia ever will...I think we should have good relationship with US UK and Russia..but if Russia is going to make us choose, you can be sure we won't choose Russia..

So accept our friendship with those countries or you can kiss our a*s...

I meant you build that base to defend yourself. I dont see anything wrong if Russia puts more missiles targeting Poland to protect herself too.


I wasn't going to - I stated it as a fact.


LOL keep it up Lukasz, kepp us entertained

:) when I will see Russian NOKIA I will think more about you as world player ;)

Paczka, its clear the missles Russia is aiming at Poland is not to defend themselves. Those missles unlike Polands are not defensive. We both know Russias aim is to intimidate Poland and scare them from placing this shield. So don't dress this up as some sort of self defence.. good try though..

On a side note. If Russia wants to place some nukes aimed at Poland, I would support Poland building its own nukes pointing at Russia. Sh*t its only fair.

If the humanity would follow the eye-for-eye principle we would all be blind(C)Gandhi


I guess there are other Russian technologies you will become familiar with soon after the acceptance of the shield if you read the newssites ;)

he also said victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary

wise fellow despite only wearing a loincloth half the time