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Poland-Russia: never-ending story?


Lukasz  49 | 1746  
20 Sep 2007 /  #331
Ok you want me to be serious. Putin closing gas pipe for poor Ukrainians in the middle of the winter when the teperature is about -30 C, just because it is good time to negociate the price.

I dont know If he wants to bulit cottages in Africa ...
truhlei  10 | 332  
20 Sep 2007 /  #332
Putin closing gas pipe for poor Ukrainians in the middle of the winter when the teperature is about -30 C, just because it is good time to negociate.

A mistake. The negotiations on gas price started mounths before. The problem is that Ukranians as well as Belarus authorities usually discuss the price untill January.

As to Ukrania, the point was that a country that doesn't want to be Russian client should pay the same price as Poland. Not a crazy idea, isn't it?

Ukranian authorities rejected that idea.
Should Gasprom reduce the price because the winter came?

I dont know If he wants to bulit cottages in Africa ...

You asked me about EU possible initiatives. I answered. Russia also requires cotteges for USD 17000 and cars for USD 2000. As well as Poland because not every Pole can buy Lexus.

Ok you want me to be serious. Putin closing gas pipe for poor Ukrainians in the middle of the winter when the teperature is about -30 C

It is very interesting that Poles don't remember their own gas problems in 1990. Only Ukranians today.
Ukranians aren't so poor now as Poles were in 1990. There are less problems in Ukrania today in comparison with Poland in 1990. But Poles had enthusiasm to pay for independence and Ukranians in its majority no. That is the reason why such scandalous fact is covered by emotional words about - 30
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
20 Sep 2007 /  #333
Ok.

I think that EU is doing good researches right now, as a hydrogen cars, solar power plants, alternative energy...

I think that succesful end of this projects will save a lot of human beings ...
truhlei  10 | 332  
20 Sep 2007 /  #334
I think that EU is doing good researches right now, as a hydrogen cars, solar power plants, alternative energy...

Hydrogen car is the greatest lie. It is invented by car manufacturers to keep popular attention away from electric cars.
Solar plants will be able to be in competition with gas by 2030.

Low-cost is possible now as well as it was possible all the 20 century
ConstantineK  26 | 1298  
21 Sep 2007 /  #335
As I have mentioned it previosly, you have to be partner of whole EU, not just some countries ...

Opyat' dvadtsat' pyat' "....you have to..." Why we have to? Could you explain me? If you said "..you would..." it would be acceptably, but why you Pole, is trying to teach us how to live, why?
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
21 Sep 2007 /  #336
You dont see Poland as a not good enought parner so our borhters will look like that (just becase or European partners think it is the best solution), and if you are not going to treate us as fair we will not help you as we are trying to help for Ukrainians ... You dont care about that ... thats ok, it is your choice. You can travel to Iran, Kazachstan, Mongolia or Kirgistan ...

USA-Mexic borther
newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40148000/jpg/_40148792_203b_border_bbc. jpg

Israel borther

Truhlei

I was asking about real solutions, like "Russians sell gas using free market rules, they get some trade concessions" or "Russia is more democratic, Russians can travel more freely thorought EU" I think that small deals are much better than another big projects like "Cottages for Russia" (by the way I dont see the reason you think the EU owes you something)

And I will repeat, nowadays Russia is regime, Europe has noticed what kind of policy it runs. For example today news ... Russian strategic bombers have broken NATO air space (somewhere near Norway) ...
truhlei  10 | 332  
21 Sep 2007 /  #337
I was asking about real solutions, like "Russians sell gas using free market rules, they get some trade concessions" or "Russia is more democratic, Russians can travel more freely thorought EU" I think that small deals are much better than another big projects like "Cottages for Russia"

Cottages are for all states including Poland.
That is a very important think because no American democracy was possible without Levitt family.
Nobody wants to have political freedom living in misery.
As to little measures, they won't give great transformations or Russia - EU relations.

You dont see Poland as a not good enought parner so our borhters will look like that (just becase or European partners think it is the best solution),

That is the EU right. We have other states to contact and visit without visas. Nearly the rest of the world. EU will be isolated not Russia.

But it should be repeated that it may be in interests of EU and no love to Russia should be obstacle to EU self isolation.

You can travel to Iran, Kazachstan, Mongolia or Kirgistan ...

Syria, Israel, Latin America, Asia etc. And within Russia that isn't always uninteresting.

if you are not going to treate us as fair we will not help you as we are trying to help for Ukrainians ...

Russians will first look at the benefits of your help to Ukranians. If it becomes profitable Russia wil follow Ukranian example. Quite a reasonable thing
ConstantineK  26 | 1298  
21 Sep 2007 /  #338
Iran, Kazachstan, Mongolia or Kirgistan ...

You think that this nations are less civilized then Poles or other European nations?
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
21 Sep 2007 /  #339
Syria, Israel, Latin America, Asia etc. And within Russia that isn't always uninteresting.

You think that this nations are less civilized then Poles or other European nations?

All I think is that EU is better place for students exchange than Iran or Kazachstan.
truhlei  10 | 332  
21 Sep 2007 /  #340
Lukasz srudents exchange already exists. EU can't sell this. Other proposals are required

Lukasz your proposals are ulterior to contacts Russia and EU have for today. Nothing new.
Besides that EU is a real island among human ocean. The rest of the world is the same as Russia or worse. With all nations EU has to support contacts. As well as to awake interest in cooperation despite non satisfactory internal and external policy. Libia is one of such examples.

Why should Russia be more loyal than the rest of the world and what it receives in exchange? How much more than other states also away from western standard?
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
21 Sep 2007 /  #341
I understand that in your opinion If EU is not going to give you cheap cottages and cars, you are not going to stop : blackmailing, making embargo, kiling EU citizens, sending bombers ? :)

I undrestand that poor students in your country can go and study in EU when ever they want, you can travel everywhere wthout any barrers, democracy is nothing new for you, your schools are full of foregin students, human rights are the most important issue for your government ...

So if it so good, ok live your own life and just dont disturb other countries, trade like civilizated world, let us forget about you ...
truhlei  10 | 332  
21 Sep 2007 /  #342
undrestand that poor students in your country can go and study in EU when ever they want

Exactly so. I don't know any student that is unable to go abroad tostudy. Only a boy who wants to study indian tribe life in Amasonas but no convenient expeditions now

you can travel everywhere wthout any barrers

Russian don't have Soviet power that doesn't let them go. Now Russians can choose among states that require visas or not. The second group is more comfortable.

democracy is nothing new for you

In comparison with democracy welcomed by the West in 90 nothing worse.

your schools are full of foregin students

Yes that is the truth. In comparison with the past

So if it so good

We are bad. But EU isn't our justice

ok live your own life and just dont disturb other countries, trade like civilizated world, let us forget about you ...

You proposed that before by the reason it is profitable for Russia. When we were unable to find these profits, ok you propose that for free without benefits. What a nice idea.

Bombers will be away when anti missil plans rejected. Or after elections. Because they are butaforic.

blackmailing, making embargo, kiling EU citizens, sending bombers ? :)

That is a common practice in today world. Iraq, Afganistan, secret US prisons, Guantanamo.
Russian activities are more modest.

If EU is not going to give you cheap cottages and cars, you are not going to stop

I'm unable to understand why the low-cost idea that is common with healthy capitalism caused so much indignation. You even unable to read what I wrote.

I repeated three times that low-cost isn't for Russia only. It is also for such states as Poland. Or you will deny there are people ready to buy cars for USD 2000 and cottages for 17000 USD?

I wrote only about a Bureau that can study that question and coordinate research because for today not national but only international projects are profitable.

I wrote that such activities may return EU reputation in the world because other states and groups of states don't seem to make such work.
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
21 Sep 2007 /  #343
When I read what do you think about kiling EU citizens, blackmailing ....

I start sharing opinion :

"Russia today is Germany of the 20s and 30s. Beaten, but still not learned its lesson."
truhlei  10 | 332  
21 Sep 2007 /  #344
When I read what do you think about kiling EU citizens, blackmailing ....

I didn't express my opinion on that. How can you imagine that?
I wrote only that it is the world practice and USA-Poland aren't better. They are agressors now. And that is the military crime. There were victims. Of course they aren't EU citizens. But I'm also away from EU.

I start sharing opinion :

"Russia today is Germany of the 20s and 30s. Beaten, but still not learned its lesson."

Spend some 40 million of EU lives to give Russia these lessons as it was done in 1945. Russia will become very modest. As Germany.
If not, look for other ways.

Lukasz I wonder you are so indifferent about low-cost. Isn't that the best base for democracy all over the world and the solution of problems of many EU residents?

Of course it will make a good living standard available to billions of people and stop in this way the feeling of superiority of those from rich states. But if you are so civilized I don't think superiority complex is so vital to you.
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
21 Sep 2007 /  #345
low-cost cottages ...

Ok I think that our experts (we have the best building specialists) are working very hard on it, all over the world, in all varieties of possible conditions. they work in Poland in UK in US in Canada in Island in Italy in Norway in Spain in Germany. And some of them just come to Poland and build their own houses . So In Poland we have all possible technologies, and we work very hard to find "final solution" for cottages. You know Turkes are the best specialists in making kebab (I would order them some researches in this case, "give the world perfect kebeb")

We are simply the best in construction industry ;)))

So we can make the deal, we promise you that when we will find perfect cottage, we will give you this technology for free. And the other part of the deal is that you will wait in pace, living calmly like Portugal or Norway.

As to the cars we have a lot of cars for 2000 USD they are not new but quite good. We can sell some for about 2200 USD. (good EU cars) ;)

It wasnt to offend anybody , but shows my point of view...
Wroclaw  44 | 5359  
21 Sep 2007 /  #346
We are simply the best in construction industry ;)))

No way!!
truhlei  10 | 332  
21 Sep 2007 /  #347
As to the cars we have a lot of cars for 2000 USD they are not new but quite good. We can sell some for about 2200 USD. (good EU cars) ;)

I can imagine the quality of the car for 2200. "Quite good"???
Some 200 000 km...
Yes you may buy a good model by chance... By in majority of cases it will require some 3000 USD in two--three mounths.
And what about assurance? It may be some 700 USD for 2200 USD car. Very nice.
I know that situation in Belarus. It is not the way for an old woman.

So we can make the deal, we promise you that when we will find perfect cottage, we will give you this technology for free.

More information about that research please.
That is a crime against Poland to keep silence about such attempts of the best possible cottage for 17000 USD. That is a real Polonophobia (I'm not joking)! Such research can't be modest everybody should know that. All states including Russia have a duty to donate because such research might be very expensive.

That is very serious. That may make Polish activities in the world more significant than USA.

If Poles can invent technology of low-cost cottages construction, I don't think they have any problems not only in Russia but in the whole world. Gasprom is nothing in comparison with the owner of this know-how.

we work very hard to find "final solution" for cottages.

Attract donations. Every Nation has a moral duty. More propaganda!
People all over the world are poisoned by rich snobs inside and house manufacturers using obsolete technologies. Poor people don't even imagine it is possible. Give them this prospect and you will continue the dialogue behind the backs of authorities.

Why Jaroslaw Kaczynski seems to be ignorant about that?

Siberian wood and Polish technology for the rest of the world. What can improve Russian-Polish relations more?
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
21 Sep 2007 /  #348
For this moment it is all we can do for you ...

That is a crime against Poland to keep silence about such attempts of the best possible cottage for 17000 USD.

Warszawa before the war

Warszawa after the war.

Warszawa now

We are realy good, we have something in our DNA, what make us champions of the construction ...

Yes we need donations, thats true ... as to Russia lower gas price would be perfect.

If Poles can invent technology of low-cost cottages construction, I don't think they have any problems not only in Russia but in the whole world. Gasprom is nothing in comparison with the owner of this know-how.

Thank you my friend, but it will be better to keep it secret. All we need is time.
blackadder  1 | 114  
21 Sep 2007 /  #349
leave Croatia alone you idiot.you are just damaging serbs who don't share your opinion.
sledz  23 | 2247  
22 Sep 2007 /  #350
I went to this bar and thought I head the girl speak with a Polish accent,

so I said dobry weicor to her and she snapped back at me and said

" Iam a Russian not Polish" and then had a real attitude twords me

needless to say she didnt get a tip

Pinko commie
svengoola  - | 69  
22 Sep 2007 /  #351
Iam a Russian not Polish"

Yup, big mistake. Lucky you still alive O.o
sledz  23 | 2247  
22 Sep 2007 /  #352
Yeah right, them Russians have a big chip on thier shoulder

I never encountered this at any Polish establishment

Every Russian I ever met in Chicago has been a Ass-hole

I`ve worked with a few of them, they think that they know everything.

But in reality thier country is 20 years behind mine
blackadder  1 | 114  
22 Sep 2007 /  #353
commie trash.

" Iam a Russian not Polish" and then had a real attitude twords me

you should tip her more i'm sure she will change her mind.
she's probably some barbarian peasant girl,she has never seen nothing but Ural peaks
sledz  23 | 2247  
22 Sep 2007 /  #354
Its hard to me to tell the difference between the accent

I thought she was Polish and I didnt how much animosity there was

after all I was just trying to be friendly

I ordered a beer a said dobry weiczor and she copped an attitude
svengoola  - | 69  
22 Sep 2007 /  #355
Its hard to me to tell the difference between the accent

that ok.you young, you'll learn
sledz  23 | 2247  
22 Sep 2007 /  #356
stop hiding
truhlei  10 | 332  
22 Sep 2007 /  #358
Your opinion is of great interest. Please give your impressions and examples. We the Russians don't have many information about the opinion of people like yuo and details you notice in our behaviour.

For this moment it is all we can do for you ...

For us???
Are you really sure there are no Poles interested in low-cost cars?
My Polish friends are of different opinion
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
22 Sep 2007 /  #359
truhlei

according low-cost cottages :))))

I was just checking If you are as good in business as it is considered in Poland. LOL

Now I know why you are so disappointed by democracy and capitalists in '90s :))))

I just imagine western managers coming to your country and tellling nice stories :)))

I know stereotypes about Poles in Russia (calculating, ungrateful, cold, greedy) now I think it is possible we look so in comparison to you :)))

I just think about selling my business in Poland and moving to Russia to do business there :)

And theory about good nation leaded by bloody regime is true. Look as in 1917, now truhlei is living in virtual world created by some dictators like Putin. And with all symphaty to russians ;) we are not going to be submisive in relationships to Putin and his poor manipulated nation (they realy think they are deffnding their country by killing EU citizens or blackmailing)
truhlei  10 | 332  
22 Sep 2007 /  #360
they realy think they are deffnding their country by killing EU citizens or blackmailing

I killed nobody in my life. Including EU citizens. Please mention at least 5 EU citizens killed by Russia.

Look as in 1917, now truhlei is living in virtual world created by some dictators like Putin.

Virtual world doesn't subordinate to Kremlin. Internet is free in Russia. I can receive all information about the EU I want. My close relative visits EU states 20 times a year by being top manager of a firm.

We see a real world and you hear only the facts you want to hear.
You are speaking about democracy without any attention to the fact the precesely democratic elections oblige Kremlin to be more agressive toward EU.

I know stereotypes about Poles in Russia (calculating, ungrateful, cold, greedy) now I think it is possible we look so in comparison to you :)))

There are few stereotypes about Poland in Russia because Russians today have very few information about Poland and very few contacts with Poles.
Calculating? Nothing of the sort. Germans have such reputation.
Greedy? That is also the reputation of West Europeans.
Ungrateful? That is the opinion of some historians. Not of ignorant people. I think Germans may think so. As to Russians, they don't have their own experience by lack of contacts.

Those who have contacts with Poles in firms working here have quite a different impression. They say Poles don't have the same high lewel of self-organization as Germans and that they are looking for easy and sometimes doubtful ways to survive.

As to me, my stereotype isn't common with the majority of Russians. I'm among some millions of Russians who have Polish-speaking and Roman Catholic ancestors left for Russian lands in 19 and early 20 century.

People like me from mixed Polish-speaking - Russian marriages are educated in respect toward Polish-speaking ancestors. That respect appeared among their Russian relatives: wives, husbands. And (very unfrequent thing in Russia) among sons and daughters in law.

If szlachta was of some 10-15% on Crown and Litwa, in Russian lands nearly 95% belonged to very little szlachta. By the end of 19 century they were like British Victorians. Not their manners were first highly estimated by Russian relatives. High moral lewel was their main asset.

Well... Imagine what impression of Poland today can have such person as I

I just think about selling my business in Poland and moving to Russia to do business there

What is your business?

Now I know why you are so disappointed by democracy and capitalists in '90s :))))

That wasn't western capitalism of its developing period of the first half of 20 century. Socialist Soviet Union had to experience Ford T and Levittown low-cost cottages that were one of the most important conditions for the formation of today western society.

Many protests in Hungary now show that even within EU people feel the necessity of low-cost by receiving an average salary of USD 700 only.
Politicians in the West received today society as heritage and they don't want to know anything about the elements that made it possible years ago. They want the rest of the world only to copy their today life.

was just checking If you are as good in business as it is considered in Poland.

I'm weak in business. I only know that low-cost is technologically possible. That the variety of cottage and vehicles models doesn't permit great price reduction. I only know that today low-cost is possible only in case of its global production. Period of peoples's cars is in the past. Multinational low-cost car models are only possible now as well as multinational module cottages. Now the research can take less money and doesn't influence in final price if low-cost is produced in some 100 million and more copies.

That process requires a coordinator. EU bodies can assure the protection and propaganda of such research and reject the resistance of many manufacturers that aren't interested to be in competition with low-cost.

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