Poland has paid £68 Million for helping UK in WW2

You Make alot of valid points but this quote here does not pertain to the first Gulf war. Unless you believe that Kuwait was never occupied by Saddam. What countries do in war is well documented. However, You typed the statement that the US started the war.

I am still waiting for you to tell me how the US started it. By the way it was a coaltion of many Nations. Or is this also a lie.

Maybe the US started by arming Saddam. By supporting Israels aggressives land grabs, and the continuing plight of the Palestinians. By supporting the ultra corrupt Saudi elite who also retained the most extreme form of Islam as their national religion.

Saddam also managed to unite many Arabs countries against the states.
He was never a threat to anyone. Christ he couldn't even beat up Iran.
Seriously people are so brain washed they can't see further than CNN.
Go do some research on the world court and find out how many times the USA has contravened world law?
You know what I'm not going to be your teacher on this subject, save to say step back and look at the bigger picture.

it does and it doesnt... there were pretext incidents that lead to GI but these go back many many years and in order to see them... and fully understand them... we have to look at many different factors... over a lengthy period of time... and involving many different *players*...

without looking at these interrelating incidents in context, it is difficult to gain a clear picture of the events that lead directly to GI... however... Saddam... to all intent and purpose believed that the US had given him *permission* to proceed with his military offensive... he might have *thrown the first punch*... but as i mentioned in my previous post, this pretext was allowed... nay, encouraged... nay, manipulated... to occur... by the US... in order to justify their response and facilitate their own ends...


No... its not a lie... but there is a lot more to it than you seem to be implying...

Expanding Imperialism, CIA undercovers, Backing the Contras,Oil grabbing. Politicans looking for money and power. I look at the US from many angles. No, I have not read Chomsky but I have read his brainwashing of your thoughts. America is no good, the US dislikes the poor, they take food from the poor to make money. Every war that starts is America's fault. I know what America has done bad and I believe I know what they have done good. You and your boy are bogus puppets of Chomsky's propaganda. Anyone who believes that the American government has never done anything good is plain stupid.


Was it the pellet put into Saddam's brain by the CIA that made him take over Kuwait. Sorry, no encouragment, no manipulation.

BW, I am sooo turned on by your whole response in that post at this moment!:)

Just our own poor.

dont get me started... :)

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, He had no other way but to attack Kuwait. Saddam modeled himself after Hitler. His favorit e movie was the Godfather. Saddam was pure as the driven snow. Teach your anti-american Propaganda Einstein. You have not typed anything good about America. Your hostility toward America must have been building for a while. You have a deep complex. It won't hurt to much, Just type somethingg good about the USA.

Riff.... why should he type sth good when he doesn't see it? So what if he doesn't like the US.

I Still think its kind of stupied that a country like Poland that actually helped Uk should pay for it.. Maybe UK/US should pay Poland for all the years THEY got us in to Russian ocupation. They sold us out in the Yalta thread. after that we where forced to be a communist state for 50 years.

Sorry D18 forgive me if I am wrong but you dont live in Poland and have not done for many years, since the age of 1??? So I fail to see what hardship you have ever had to live through, as far as I can remember Sweeden is quite a wealthy country!

Whats you point? just becuse i dident live in the communist times or the times when Poland was rebuilding the country, that dosent mean that im not interested in Poland and the history of Poland,

My mother the only one in our family that actually leaved Poland and it wasent becuze that it was a poor EE state it was cuz my mother likes to travele so we went to Sweden and we stayed there. But when im whealty enough i will come back to Poland, and i HOPE that many Poles that are living outside poland will!!


NO i dont think so!! from 1970 the economi has only went down.. Sweden got its whealt from ww2 and after the war when Sweden was the only country in europe that could provide Europe whit steel and coal and wood to rebuild Europe.

Poland whit a big P...

Why should Poles pay for French soldiers at Verdun- Verdun had nothing to do with Poland's independence- but if you want to look at it from this angle, how much did France pay for Polish soldiers slaughtered in Bonaparte's Army.


Yes with Solidarnosc, the internal support of of the Church, the foresight of General Jaruzelski to impose Martial Law: while Russian tanks waited on our border ready to repeat Hungary's bloodbath. Poland started the fall of Communism, while the world watched and waited, no International support expected or needed.

We did not have President Reagan commanding Mr Gorbachov, Tear down that wall,as in East Berlin.

I am too young to remember the war,i was born in the 1970's.
I lost alot of my previous family during that war so i have an idea what it was like in terms of what i could of been like.

And where was i?.......i was not born then.

but hey,Grzegorz thers no need to be so hostile to me.

you obviously dont like my remark because im english.


Yes your right and didnt we pay for it......hitler really did take the piss and chamberlin came back with that famous piece of paper with some form of agreement thinking he diffused a evil disaster......how wrong he was.

I think i will leave this topic now....im not familiar enough with the two world wars we had and i dont want to say something to upset anyone.

No offence meant.

It,s not because you are English, but because some of your remarks were some of your remarks were based on ignorance and seen as offensive- esp. towards Poles.I am happy to help you in any way I can.Don't give up- and please contact me if you change your mind.(I love History -still learning).I won't say Goodbye- instead - For Now!

Best wishes,Anielka.

"You and your boy are bogus puppets of Chomsky's propaganda. Anyone who believes that the American government has never done anything good is plain stupid. "

Firstly Chomsky isn't propaganda and secondly no the American government has never done anything good. Following the collapse of democracy during the 1930's and with the ressumption of the Keynsian Capitalist methods( state funding of private buisness), the military induistrial complex was born, and came of age during the 1940's.

The American government's sole aim is to maintain the status quo of the a minority of rich elite controlling a mass of workers.

I'm not going to argue with you Riff since your fervernt patrotism is blinding you to the obvious truths, you become an apologist for the elite.

IO'm such with further study and age you will realise what I'm quoting and stating is neither fiction nor lies.
I realise you will probably be offended and become abusive, so I'm going to desist the urge to contnue.

Good night all and thanks for reading.

Dear Giles, I agree with this Quote Giles.
Do you recall when Bill Clinton stopped the ethnic slaughter of the Muslims in Bosnia and Yugoslavia. If Chomsky hasn't already made up a fake story about this event Giles you can be the honoree to make up a bogus story about it. Maybe I can start your bogus story. Once upon a time Clinton wanted money and power and he actually loved ethnic Cleansing............

It is hard for you isn't it Giles. The US government wanted to save the Muslims from ethnic cleansing.

The US government wanted to save the Muslims from ethnic cleansing.

Wrong they couldn't careless.

OK. I'll try, in part,- the Germans called their warfare "Blitzkrieg". They called the Allied warfare "Sitzkrieg" -translated- sitting on your backsides. German Generals have stated,irrevocably, that had the UK or France( with all her arms) attacked the North- Western border eg northern France, Belgium, Holland- Germany would have retreated. They freely admit a 2 front war was beyond their capabilities. Although, I must agree with you Frank the Brit. made a token effort of dropping leaflets on German capital cities-flying low and making sure the leaflets were not bundled, fearing German casualties.

You're right again, GB did sit cringing- appeasing Hitler continuously.The Munich Agreement signed 30/9/1938 signed by Chamberlain, Daladier, Mussolini and Hitler sealed the fate of Poland and the other Baltic countries- especially with Chamberlain's machinations of pressuring Hacha to capitulate " for the greater good" after Hitler taking advantage of the Agreement, crossed the Sudentland into Czechoslovakia.

From the Allied point of view, they needed the Russian forces- by this time it would have wishful thinking of Germany and Russia destroying each other.

Still, Churchill entertained hopes to change matters post War regarding Russia " the men who hold power at the present will not keep it.....in consequence of this war two great powers , Germany and Japan, will disappear. Russia will remain. And the United States and Great Britain will possess huge stores of aircraft, guns, and tanks." More wishful thinking.

This is application of hind sight................supposition.......


This was a point made by someone else.........again hind sight, wishful thinking...no one really knows.

Whilst there are thoughts of an inadequate response from your allies, nevertheless your neighbours at the time were hell bent on one thing, expanding their empires, influence and getting rid of the less desirable populations in the EE, perhaps the wrong signals were sent out by the western allies...but it was German troops and later Russian troops who attacked occupied and massacred your people.

That is fact, not theory or supposiiton ; all we can work on is what happened, not what should have, would have or might have happened.

PS I thought the numbers murdered at Katyn was 30-40,000...if as on the other thread....200-300,000........even more horrific.

The German Generals were adamant that fighting on 2 fronts eg Poland and the North-Western border would not have been possible at the time in - to them it was not hindsight , supposition but reality.

The murdered discovered in Katyn( initially in 1943 ) numbers @15,000.
In 2006, murdered Polish Officers, soldiers, Intelligentsia, together with Ukranian, BeloRussian and others were discovered in mass graves outside Kiev numbering 200,000-300,000, the Ukranian Govt. is conducting an investigation.


I was agreeing with this point- by this time it was wishful thinking- the time to have acted by the Allies had long since gone - instead of insisting to the Poles NOT to mobilise, so as not to antagonise Hitler. The Poles moved their outdated planes anyway and camoflaged them, so at least they had something to go up against the Germans while waiting for Britain and more so- France to honor their treaty and waited and waited......

Seriously ?:)

...........so everyone else was to blame...........

Huh ?

mmm...bit vague- perhaps he means GB and France. The fact remains because of their pre-war machinations Hitler's door to Poland was open. Their refusal to honor the treaty Poland meant Poland, acting in good faith( would have been good of them to inform Poland they weren't going to) capitulated 28 days later and continued to fight in pockets on 4 fronts.

It was not my intention to offend the poles and im very sorry to anyone that taken offence to my remark...it must of been a awful time for poland which i can never comprehend and i only hope now,times will be better for you.

But im from a different generation and im only quoting history from what i was told and that radio phone-in i listened to.
I hope poland and the uk will get on better now.

There is a serious point to be made here. We can only comment upon what we have learnt from studying History. The intrepretation of events given is often slanted towards the benefit of the country where you live. For example, I grew up knowing about the German destruction of cities in England such as Coventry in WWII but events like the apalling destruction of Dresden were glossed over. Unless you have the time and inclination to probe deeper it is easy for the first impressions to becomd de facto facts. That is why it is so interesting to take part in debates such as these. A wider perspective is invaluable.

Well said Globetrotter..........we non Polish members relish your perspectives and anecdotal experiences.

None of the western countries covered themselves in glory at times..and there are lots of things which need apologising for.......indeed Irelands record during WWII left a lot to be desired!

I agree with Mr GlobTrot in English history we are not tought the whole story about WWII and of late it has been prog after prog about WWII and what Poland went through along with other countires.

The whole alliance was made only to prevent Poland from joining Germany, without that or If they had informed that are going to do nothing, Poland would have joined Germany (lesser evil) and attack the Soviet Union together with them, which would probably make Soviets fall down and that wouldn't be good for France and GB. However France and GB overplayed the whole thing - didn't predict that Nazis could make the deal with Soviets and turn on the west first.