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Who were European natives? What happened to them? Where they are?


Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #1
We heard for numerous versions of ancient history. There are a lot of controversial informations, science of numerous scientific fields seek for answers and even politics tries to present its attitude

So, what you people of Polishfoums think - Who were native Europeans and did they survived in continuity, did native European culture survived? I point on European natives since time immemorial, from let`s say- Stone Age to the modern time. After all, what is covered with term `native Europeans`.

i would like to talk on this with those who have interest for topic. Eventually, topic could be interesting… we live in time of European integration (as if), people is faced with numerous cultural challenges and answer on above mentioned questions maybe can help in orientation
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,159  
28 Sep 2008 /  #2
You mean the Neanderthals? Citizens of Neanderthal (today Germany) ?
rock - | 460  
28 Sep 2008 /  #3
I am curious of Europeans nations religon before christianity ?

What were the beliefs ?
nutmeg - | 2  
28 Sep 2008 /  #4
As far as I know they were Pagan. For examle Poland was baptized in 966, before that time people had no knowledge of Christianity or they were praying to their Pagan gods.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
28 Sep 2008 /  #5
I am curious of Europeans nations religon before christianity ?

Depends, Celts had their Gods such as Cernunnos, Slavs had ( among others ) Światowid and Perun, there was no uniform religion.

Celts and Gauls had a feminine cult of Mother Goddess, Slavs had male Gods usually associated with the sun, for example the four faced Światowid.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,159  
28 Sep 2008 /  #6
Pagan nature religions....the real thing!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
28 Sep 2008 /  #7
The Native European was a man who didnt know whats Europe. This man was running after a goose to satisfy his hunger. This native man was on a patch of land, fighting for his survival. Europe or no Europe...he needed food...he needed water....he needed shelter.
OP Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #8
You mean the Neanderthals?

well, among others yes, Neanderthals also. If we were to investigate early beginning of `intelligent` life on European soli, Neanderthals must be taken in consideration. One whole period of European history belong to them. But, are they first?

Then, who replaced Neanderthals? Humans? Which kind of humans? What was their race? Then, if there happened clash between human and Neanderthal world (civilizations, societies, settlements, hunters...whatever) can we go that far to think that there were organized wars on European soli which decided who shell prevail. What if similar wars occurred on planetary/global level? How can we investigate this and get insight in ancient events, to say `from time before time`?

If we were to speculate on this topic to the maximum we can even ask- What if ancients of this world used for example mammoths and/or other animals in eventual wars (everyday life), same way how people used and using elephants, horses, lamas, camels, bears, …?

Then, from where arrived humans who spread all over Europe? What happened later to that primordial human culture of Europe?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,159  
28 Sep 2008 /  #9
Then, who replaced Neanderthals? Humans? Which kind of humans? What was their race?

The Cro-magnon

As you write regularly whole threads about history you should know that...
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
28 Sep 2008 /  #10
Where is all of this leading?
shopgirl 6 | 928  
28 Sep 2008 /  #11
Scientists are not 100% sure of what happened to the Neanderthals. There is a lot of debate right now of whether the Neanderthals and Cro Magnons interbred and mixed the genes....

Crow are you going to say that the Cro Magnons were ancient Slavs?
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
28 Sep 2008 /  #12
Crow are you going to say that the Cro Magnons were ancient Slavs?

Shh..that's what I was waiting for...I always suspect when Crow asks a question, he has already decided on the answer
OP Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #13
Where is all of this leading?

i don`t know, you tell me. I contemplated on ancient civilizations a lot of

currently i`m fascinated with idea that humans used mammoths as they using elephants. Can you imagine ancient human (or even Nenthertal!?) mammoth riders? Is that the picture of some extinct native European civilization? Some enigmatic Northern (if) world, like in some of Tolkien`s novels
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
28 Sep 2008 /  #14
currently i`m fascinated with idea that humans used mammoths as they using elephants

And you think you will find someone on the forum, who will know for certain that ancient man rode Mammoths........I don't believe thre has ever been archealogical evidence to support such a theory. Ther is no evidence that man domesticated mammoths, which he would need to do in order to use them for transport.

BTW Lord of the Rings is fiction, Tolkein made it up
OP Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #15
Crow are you going to say that the Cro Magnons were ancient Slavs?

not neceserely

to say something like that you must first prove that ancient European civilization (primordial European culture) directly evolved into that what we call `Proto-Slavic` culture, that modern day Slavs dirrectly inherit from that culture. It would mean that other European branches (other Whites) originates from Proto-Slavs and not from Indo-Europeans. Or (!) that they originates from some other non-European culture or represent mix of Proto-Slavic and that other culture (or several cultures).

If you ask me what i think, i would honestly answer to you that i don`t have answer. Just ideas and just curious...

i would just remind you that at first German schoolars didn`t use term `Indo-European` but Indo-Germanic. Modern science abandened and refused that approach suggesting strictly scientific methodology in research of ancient history. So, Germans aren`t first native Europeans as Nazism vulgarized that question (question of Aryans). If Germans can`t claim on Aryan heritage (at least not dirrectly), somebody maybe can

BTW Lord of the Rings is fiction, Tolkein made it up

of course

And you think you will find someone on the forum, who will know for certain that ancient man rode Mammoths

it would be nice to know what other people think on this, at least those who are interested
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,159  
28 Sep 2008 /  #16
BTW Lord of the Rings is fiction, Tolkein made it up

Rohan never existed??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
rock - | 460  
28 Sep 2008 /  #17
Waiting for the invention of ''time machine'' will be better idea to answer these questions.

I hope we can see it in our life period :)

Do you know if there is a topic in PF like '' What would be your 10 travels by time machine ''
OP Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #18
'' What would be your 10 travels by time machine ''

it is interesting question

Rohan never existed??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

i`m also disapointed but you know, some other person somilar to Rohan maybe realy existed, in some ancient world
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
28 Sep 2008 /  #19
Rohan never existed???

hahaha, gut!
OP Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #20
or take Conan`s world for example, Red Sonja... world or Simerians. Could it be picture of ancient Europe?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,159  
28 Sep 2008 /  #21
Rohan maybe realy existed, in some ancient world

I'm sure of it!!! Yup!
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
28 Sep 2008 /  #22
What would be your 10 travels by time machine ''

hmmm, thats a really good idea actually. I've thought about this many times before.
My top 4 anyway, would be somewhere between 1500-1600 Poland or Eastern Europe.
As well, the beginning of WW2, being in the Polish army on the western front at that time, and hmm, maybe being in the States in the frontier days. Always fascinated me. Oh, and perhaps being at the Battle of Marathon as a Greek hoplite ;)
OP Crow 150 | 9,537  
28 Sep 2008 /  #23
rock:
What would be your 10 travels by time machine ''

hmmm, thats a really good idea actually.

Oh, and perhaps being at the Battle of Marathon as a Greek hoplite ;)

i would prefer Troyan wars, Sparta vs. Athens

Spartak`s rebbelion against slavery, would be also interesting

era of Great Moravia, life on throne

time when Slavs used Sarmatian name for its universal designation, when Sarmatians controled territories from Europe to the Ind River (spreading of agriculture and Aryan era- ARIETS)

Daco-Roman wars
southern 75 | 7,096  
28 Sep 2008 /  #24
Then, who replaced Neanderthals?

In fact Homo Sapiens annihilated Neanderdals.(maybe he ate some of them as well).

Cro-magnon

Again vanished through Homo Sapiens action.
Barney 15 | 1,476  
28 Sep 2008 /  #25
Cro-magnon

and

Homo Sapiens

are the same
osiol 55 | 3,922  
28 Sep 2008 /  #26
Neanderthals must be taken in consideration

Take into consideration that they died out, unlike Cro-magnons who were part of the original Homo sapiens sapiens population of Europe, from whom some Europeans descend.

Notice that we are Homo sapiens sapiens (yes, that's two sapienses, both with a small s).
plk123 8 | 4,149  
28 Sep 2008 /  #27
I am curious of Europeans nations religon before christianity ?

What were the beliefs ?

pagan
osiol 55 | 3,922  
28 Sep 2008 /  #28
Meaning: [religion of the] countryside.

In prehistory, things were different in different parts of Europe. It also depends on whether you're looking at before or after the influence of Corded Ware and Beaker cultures or Indo-European languages (whether or not these are the same thing).
Borrka 37 | 594  
29 Sep 2008 /  #29
I think Raven - Crow is just trying to draw your attention to the fact that so called early "European history" is a pile of BS created for political reasons by (mostly) German historians.

If historical sources and archeological findings do not suit to nationalistic myths it's only bad for the sources and findings lol.

And Germans are masters of the universe in this profession - I have red
a "scientific" study claiming Slavs were only combination of some Celtic
and Germanic elements.
According to the author they never really existed lol.

The father of all historians "made in Germany" was Heinrich von Treitschke.

Even linguistics has been involved - German "hundert tausend Professoren" are looking for proofs of Germanic origin of European toponyms.
Viel Spaß meine Herren !
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 488  
29 Sep 2008 /  #30
As far as I know they were Pagan. For examle Poland was baptized in 966, before that time people had no knowledge of Christianity or they were praying to their Pagan gods.

well...
as far I know, christianity was know (in the ground of modern poland) before 'official' baptisation... and also pagan religions were alive after baptisation....

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