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Living in Katowice (programmer, 3000 PLN) - is it enough?


kauhuk - | 3
19 Nov 2013 #31
I'm Finnish and 25 years old. I have bachelors degree in business information technology. No family.

I'm not sure about the salary but somewhere around 1400 euros per month + possible extras(dont know how much in Zloti). It's an IT-support work and I cant get fully furnished all inclusive apartment trough the employee for about 1000 Zloti/month. It's a year long contract but there is a possibility to continue after that.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Nov 2013 #32
The only thing you'll get out of it is one year of experience in IT support, which may, or may not, be useful in your future career. A more logical approach is to improve your qualifications by getting a masters or engineering degree. That will greatly increase your chances of finding satisfying employment and also greatly increase your lifetime earning potential. Your opportunities for advancement are quite limited with only a bachelors. You're going to hit the earnings ceiling very quick. Get some first rate advice on high-paid, always-in-demand careers and tailor your graduate studies to achieve a realistic goal.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
19 Nov 2013 #33
If you're from IT then you can find more attractive city. If you target Poland, then check Kraków, Wrocław, Gdańsk, Poznań or even Warszawa. Just browse advertised adds. Here are those with word Finnish in it: pracuj.pl/praca/Finnish;kw

And Katowice is not a nice city.
smurf 39 | 1,981
19 Nov 2013 #34
I live in Kato, yea it's not Paris, but it's slowing improving.
The new city market which should be completed in a year or two will improve it a lot.
The addition of the party street on Mariacka has livened up the place too and the new train station/shopping centre in the middle of the city has added a breath of fresh air.

As you're Finnish I presume you've been offered work in somewhere like Capgemini?
It's mind-numbingly boring work man, you'll be answers the phone to angry Finns all day long, trying to help them fix their modems/Internet connection etc.

I've known 3 Finns that have done that job and they've all ended up hating it and moving away.
However, you will be well paid, the last guy I knew working there got about 6500zl per month

Not speaking Polish won't be a problem in your job, but in daily life it may hinder you quite a bit. Nobody, I repeat, nobody over the age of 40 speaks English here.

So things like tax office are a huge pain in the balls....but the thing is you'll be working with many other foreigners so they will be able to help you out and point you in the right direction.

Silesians are quite conservative too so most of your friends are likely to be other foreigners, the locals are nice and all, but they aren't very open to meeting people, it takes a long time to become their friends.

The place is very, very grim in winter, but great in summer and spring, the park in Chorzow is brilliant in the summer and you're only an 45min drive from the mountains.

On the plus side, the food is great, so is the beer and the women are beautiful. And once you get to know some Poles and gain their friendship, they are very loyal, caring & hospitable friends.

Also, because Kato doesn't have so many foreigners you can demand a higher wage, avoid the other cities if you want to make a lot of money, they are already full of foreigners.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
19 Nov 2013 #35
they are already full of foreigners.

but are they full of Finns :) ? I doubt.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Nov 2013 #36
However, you will be well paid, the last guy I knew working there got about 6500zl per month

If by "IT support" the OP means "working in a call center", that's pretty tragic. Even more so if the best job he can find pays a measly $20,000 dollars or less a year. The experience gained won't mean anything at all on the job market. His is her time is better spent beefing up his qualifications by getting a higher degree. Or for looking for a better-paid job elsewhere.

but are they full of Finns :) ? I doubt.

There are very few jobs that specifically require a Finn. He'll be competing with scads of foreigners from other countries. And, of course, with scads of Poles.
smurf 39 | 1,981
19 Nov 2013 #37
but are they full of Finns :) ? I doubt.

Does it matter?
The point remains where there are less foreigners businesses who need them will have to pay more. Simple supply and demand.
But since that company have bases in other cities mentioned then yea he can probably live in a cosmetically prettier place, but are they offering jobs in those cities. If he's only been offered one in Kato then the answer to that must be no..

Maybe Kato having some Finns means that they'd like to have all their Finnish workers stationed in one part of the country so they can operate their shifts more efficiently

that's pretty tragic

There's no requirement to be mean Dominic. Do you look down upon street cleaners/rubbish collector? No need for that at all.
It appears that you aren't as nice as you used to once be to people asking similar questions regarding Poland. The old Dominic was better.

What did you think IT support meant? It obviously means call centre work.
Anyway, having some foreign experience always looks good on a CV. The OP can always return to finish their qualifications once they return. That's his business, to be fair he asked for advice about moving to Poland, not about qualifications.
kauhuk - | 3
19 Nov 2013 #38
Thank you for the help in this matter. The job offered is indeed only for Katowice and there are no other places for that company.

I also get what you mean Dominic. I have thought about educating myself more. The problem in Finland for getting a job is not really education but work experiece. Work experience is valued much more greatly in Finland than education. Or more like you are assumed to have a high education but that guarantees nothing. I'm still thinking about all this and weighing what would be the best choice in this matter.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
19 Nov 2013 #39
No, it isn't. Only RELEVANT work experience is valuable.

You cannot say that it isn't, not knowing details. For example work for IBM support, learning their systems can be relevant for someone who doesn't want to be programmer or administrator.
Harry
19 Nov 2013 #40
There are very few jobs that specifically require a Finn. He'll be competing with scads of foreigners from other countries. And, of course, with scads of Poles.

You'd be surprised. I know a Finnish woman in Warsaw, she lives in the building next to mine. She spent years at uni studying to be a sworn translator of Finnish to English and speaks reasonable Polish. The company she works for paid for her to retrain her as an accountant because it was easier for them to find a person in Poland who spoke Finnish and English and train that person as an accountant than it was for them to find an accountant in Poland who spoke English and teach that person to speak Finnish.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Nov 2013 #41
None of that contradicts what I wrote, that there are very few jobs that specifically require a Finnish speaker. The example you gave does not apply because the woman in question spoke Finnish, English AND Polish. I think you can count the native speakers of Finnish that speak reasonable Polish who are available for work in Poland without taking your socks and shoes off. That put her in a whole different class than the OP, who said that they did not know any Polish at all.
Lithium88
7 May 2014 #42
Merged: Job offer with Unilever Katowice, is 4200pln gross enough to cover outgoings?

Hello all,

I recently have been offered a job opportunity at Unilever Katowice, with gross salary of 4200 pln. I am not living in Poland and would have to move and live in Katowice so I would like to know if the offered salary would cover all my day to day costs. I am looking to find more info about renting a one bedroom apartment or studio as I will live alone and also living costs in Katowice.

Thanks
DominicB - | 2,709
7 May 2014 #44
with gross salary of 4200 pln

Basically not worth moving to Poland for so little. You'll survive if you're very frugal and careful with every penny, but don't expect much in the way of comfort or things like travel or entertainment, and saving up even a little for a rainy day fund is pretty much out of the question. Unexpected medical expenses, for example, would be enough to wipe you out.

Katowice ain't a pretty city by a long shot. It's a grimy mining center.

Fine if you are a recent grad and want to get a year experience for your CV, and you absolutely cannot find better work elsewhere. Otherwise, not at all a tempting offer.
smurf 39 | 1,981
7 May 2014 #45
I recently have been offered a job opportunity at Unilever Katowice, with gross salary of 4200 pln

That salary is crap, tell them to shove it.

Rent, anything from 800-1500
Food, travel, 1500 a month, that's already almost 3000zl
Add phone bill, tv/internet bill, utilities.
Fuel and insurance if you have a car.

Naw, tell them you want double.
Kato doesn't have a lot going for it....it's a very average city.
A few shopping centres, a really huge public park, ul. Mariacka is great in the summer, dead as disco in winter.

But yea, I wouldn't move here for such a small wage.
Nochills
9 May 2014 #46
You're wrong, many entry jobs are set around €1000 per month gross in former Eastern Europe for international expats.

I'm considering myself to move to Poland for a helpdesk job soon because I live a really trife life here in Sweden.
I'm only gettting €550 per month gross working in an unemployment placement as General Assistant/Telemarketer.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
10 May 2014 #47
That's good to know that their tactic of employing foreigners for less than minimum salary in their home countries works.
smurf 39 | 1,981
10 May 2014 #48
many entry jobs are set around €1000

It's still sh!t money, no denying that.
Nochills
10 May 2014 #49
Actually, employment of highly skilled labourers for less than minimum salary is standard nowadays.

A year ago, I applied for a technical support job in Ireland and the salary was about €1700/month gross.
Ireland is actually a very expensive country, generally a bit more than what Sweden costs.

The job interviewer also told me that I would have to move to call centers in India if the need arises.
India is as most people know, one of the world's cheapest countries with highly skilled labour.

I didn't accepted the job offer as I didn't like the working conditions and lack of affordable housing.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
10 May 2014 #50
The job interviewer also told me that I would have to move to call centers in India if the need arises.
India is as most people know, one of the world's cheapest countries with highly skilled labour.

If one can keep his European salary there, then temporary assignment to India could be a great adventure in my opinion.
Nochills
10 May 2014 #51
I don't believe that labourers get by on European salaries in such countries.
Capitalism is only about to dehumanize individuals, to make them suffer.

The People Unions are downsized and Politicians are hypocrites and liars.

Even i Norway which is one of the world's richiest countries, highly skilled jobs are scarce as I have applied many times there.

Trust me, they only want Computer Science grad employees with years of experience in Helpdesk support.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
10 May 2014 #52
I am curious what education and experience do you have, that you cannot find normal job in Sweden? And are you Swedish, or expat as you have written?
Tamarisk
10 May 2014 #53
Trust me, they only want Computer Science grad employees with years of experience in Helpdesk support.

Actually this is becoming the norm nowadays everywhere. I have eight years customer support experience at a technology company in California with a further five years in the business office. I was laid off at the end of 2012 due to some pretty horrific office politics. I lived off unemployment for a year and then decided to come over to Poland where my parents retired. I've been applying for remote support jobs online and you wouldn't believe what they are asking of people now. Even with all my experience I haven't even made it to an interview.
Nochills
10 May 2014 #54
Monitor, in what regard are you commenting all this, you're not Polish yourself right?
Have you been to Poland at all? I have travelled in the Baltic States, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Wroclaw, Poznan and Berlin.

I have 3 years University studies in "Massmedia and Communication" which sucked theoretical balls.

The easy part was that I failed my final thesis and graduation and for the worst part, instead received very bad tinnitus.
I've have experienced a very bad roaring/hissing/buzzing ever since then for 7 seven years now.
Nevertheless to say, this health problem has subsided thanks to that I'm having had numerous chiropractic sessions.

I later studied Comptia A+ and Network+ which are theoretical courses in Computing but these doesn't count if you're unexperienced.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
11 May 2014 #55
I was asking about Sweden, not Poland. I was referring to "highly skilled jobs are scarce as I have applied many times there." I thought that you're talking about something technical, but you studied Massmedia and Communication.
Lithium88
27 May 2014 #56
Thank you for all your honest opinions. Nochills has a point when he says that entry jobs are at around 1000 euros per month gross in Eastern Countries. I have been applying for numerous job openings all over Europe for almost a year and this offer is actually very high compared to other salaries that I have been offered.

I am from Romania and have some experience in Customer Service and Order to cash processing but I do not consider myself yet as over the entry level. You wouldn't be able to get this salary not even in your dreams as a beginner in Bucharest.

At 26 years old I think that it is a great opportunity to work in a foreign country see new places, meet new people and most important of all it will be a very useful experience in the future for finding a better job.
biscolo92 - | 2
12 Jun 2014 #57
Merged: Living in Poland (Katowice) on a wage of 5000 PLN, is this enough to live well and save money?

Hello all,

I was offered a job in Katowice with 5000 PLN net per month, and I need to know if this salary is sufficient to live well in Katowice and save around 1500 to 2000 PLN per month ?

Thanks
noskii 2 | 16
12 Jun 2014 #58
hi, biscolo92, did you even negotiate? IT salary is higher than that(assuming that you are getting hired in the IT sector). They are giving you the minimum for a foreigner to be hired in Poland.
biscolo92 - | 2
12 Jun 2014 #59
I proposed this salary.. I didn't ask before, but I can say that after some research this salary is not good for me ;).

So what is the best salary to say ? The position is an " IT Infrastructure Engineer" and I have a bachelor degree with 1,5 years of exp, and I have 21 yrs old :)

P.S : I'm from Morocco

Thank you,
Monitor 14 | 1,820
13 Jun 2014 #60
So now it's too late. You should have asked before. When you say 1.5 year experience, then you mean full time job? If so, then you're very young for Polish standards. Most of Polish IT guys graduate with master degree in age around 24. Some of them has some job experience.


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