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Daniel Pelka murder: Polish mother and stepfather face life sentences


OP jon357 67 | 16,854
18 Sep 2013 #61
The social services of this country are overworked and under-resourced

Very true.

some of that is to do with mass immigration

No. It is to do with gross under-funding. It's also to do with people who regard them as being part of some sort of so-called 'nanny state', with a media outcry when they actually do their job.
grubas 12 | 1,390
18 Sep 2013 #62
Oh,come on,stop it.Nobody blames Britain or every single British person but some employees of few different government agencies which in this case happened to British,excuse me my language, screwed UP.And they screwed up BIG TIME,ok?Why can't agree to to this?What's the problem?
Sonorous 3 | 8
18 Sep 2013 #63
Social services are quite bad here in England, but again, they must have a lot on their hands.
The fact is, they didn't get there soon enough, the school was probably too afraid to do anything about Daniel when they saw his injuries, and an innocent little boy is dead because of the two people who were supposed to care for him. If social services workers deserve anything, it's guilt for not doing anything about it, if they could have done.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
18 Sep 2013 #64
they must have a lot on their hands.

A huge amount on their hands and heavy legal restrictions about what they can and can't do.

British

It isn't either a British or a Polish issue - child murder happens eveywhere unfortunately.
smurf 39 | 1,981
18 Sep 2013 #65
couldn't hav happened in Poland

err...the wee girl, Madga from Sosnowiec

and the chick in Lubawa, who killed 3 babies and kept them in her freezer.

Of course it could never have happened in Poland.
IQ 167? Tak!
pweeg
29 Jan 2016 #66
Daniel Pelka's killer stepfather found dead in prison
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35443416
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
29 Jan 2016 #67
A sad end to a sad story:

Evil step-dad of Daniel Pelka found dead in prison as he served life for murdering four-year-old boy
Mariusz Krezolek, 36, was serving a minimum of 30 years and his death comes a year after Daniel's mum killed herself in prison

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/evil-step-dad-daniel-pelka-7270689

In every sense. Three dead, a child appallingly mistreated. Bad all round.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
29 Jan 2016 #68
This is in fact one of the many downside to the political correctness we are experiencing in the UK. Every year it has got worse and its because of this people know they should say or do something, but cannot in fear of this jobs. In Poland, there isnt this level political correctness compared to the UK, but the problem here is most people are uninterested in helping others and turn a blind eye as they have their own problems to deal with.
pweeg3
30 Jan 2016 #69
PC had nothing to do with it. Some one failed at their job.
Mister H 11 | 761
30 Jan 2016 #70
It would need to be determined why they failed at their job and it's certainly plausible in this day and age that political correctness may have had something to do with it.

Social workers may have had language barriers and all kinds of 'cultural differences' as being the reasons why more was not done.
Roger5 1 | 1,457
30 Jan 2016 #71
Social workers did not kill the child. It may well be the case that neglect was unheeded, and perhaps social workers were even negligent, but let's not forget who was responsible.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,845
30 Jan 2016 #72
This is in fact one of the many downside to the political correctness we are experiencing in the UK.

Daniel Pelka's death had nothing to do with 'political correctness'.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
30 Jan 2016 #73
Quite. I think polishinvestor misunderstands the meaning of the phrase "political correctness" however in any case, he died because of human failings, because of two people's appalling behaviour.

Social workers did not kill the child

Exactly. They are very limited in their powers (and woefully under-funded - there are fewer than most people think) and to a certain extend are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Had Daniel Pelka been under proper scrutiny, they may have been able do do something to support him and the family however that didn't happen, and "what ifs" are rarely helpful.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
30 Jan 2016 #74
Someone failed at their job because they thought it a risk to their own job if they reported concern because if unfounded they would be taken to court for racism against a minority. It may or not have had a baring in this case but often does in everyday life in the uk these days. Rather than the authority going to court to person responsible is sacked and compensation agreed to avoid media exposure which could be damaging. If you are negligent incompetent or responsible for a given event, you should be at risk of the law, not sheltered by peoples fear of being branded racists or being discriminatory.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
30 Jan 2016 #75
they thought it a risk to their own job if they reported concern because if unfounded they would be taken to court for racism against a minority

No. In this case there isn't any suggestion that the ethnicity of the family had any bearing - in fact (as the howls of protest within Poland show), children of recent Polish migrants often come into contact with Social Services.

It may or not have had a baring in this

It doesn't at all.
pweeg3
30 Jan 2016 #76
Someone failed at their job because they thought it a risk to their own job if they reported concern because if unfounded they would be taken to court for racism against a minority

Thats rubbish
polishinvestor 1 | 362
30 Jan 2016 #77
You can never be sure. If you are in business and you speak to recruitment and managers on a regular basis you will understand it to be a huge problem.

For example often you are forced to provide a reason for not employing someone to avoid a tribunal. People are all sorts but often some will try to take advantage of ethnicity or colour to advance there cause and so it puts people on the other side in an incredibly difficult position in first doing their job and second avoiding a potential issue which could harm the image of their company. And clearly individuals are going to consider the potential consequences of their action on their job whenever approaching such issues.

I could offer many many examples but mentioning individuals clearly can only lead to potential issues for those involved. Its enough to say that often cases (these can be anything from suspected neglience to theft etc) are only being brought forward officially once there is almost no doubt and legal departments are sure that their is no risk of damage to the firms image or bottom line. It has to be watertight and that often means certain people are getting away with a lot.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
30 Jan 2016 #78
If you are in business and you speak to recruitment and managers on a regular basis you will understand it to be a huge problem.

I am and haven't seen a problem; whenever I've hired, it's been on merit - whichever candidate is best for the job. In social services they don't shy away from engagement with a family just because they came from Poland.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
30 Jan 2016 #79
Well you have been lucky. In social care we are actively involved and its a problem. Its not something people are going to talk about openly unless they feel it wont come back to them so officially there is never a problem anywhere. But if you have to deal with it or someone that does shares their experience you will understand its a big issue. Again this is a uk problem, i havent come across it in poland as we dont have that fear factor here.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
30 Jan 2016 #80
That was my old career and there just wasn't a problem involving a reticence to become engaged with Polish families. The only case I was ever involved with that was delicate was an elderly Polish/Ukrainian couple of extreme views (they weren't welcome in the local Polish Club) who were reticent to say the least to let their adult son go into respite care (he badly needed this) because the Unit Manager (a perfect gentleman) was a different colour to them.

There were certainly more recent migrants from Poland and elsewhere who needed serious intervention due to issues with illtreated children (alcohol was in every case a major factor) and this happened regardless of their origin and despite their protesting.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
30 Jan 2016 #81
As I say you have been lucky. We personalIy had a couple of incidents which needed to be defused and know of hundreds of such cases (not particularly covering Poles but all minority colour) and many of which have been settled with compensation to avoid potential embarassment (not always warranted and unfortunately embarassment often followed). No win no fee is a major driving factor is such situations, of course this covers all ethnic minorities, races. But it does mean everyone is covering their backs first before making a move. This wasnt the case a couple of decades ago.
Chemikiem
31 Jan 2016 #82
political correctness

His death had nothing to do with political correctness. An independent report found that professionals at all levels failed Daniel, from health and social workers, teachers, to the police.

What sickens me is that every time a terrible case comes to light such as this one, nothing appears to have been learnt from all the other awful child abuse cases previous to it.

Every time we hear " this must never happen again", and predictably, it always does.

theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/17/professionals-failed-report-daniel-pelka
polishinvestor 1 | 362
31 Jan 2016 #83
that professionals at all levels

Quite possible a mixture of desensitisation and pc is probably what actually happened. Most people dont give a damn, just come in for a paycheck. And they that do care are worried about waking up one morning and reading their facebook/twitter account to find they are branded racists/nazis/(insert your own) for bringing something to attention of authorities. Keyboard warriors and social media have a lot to answer for.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
31 Jan 2016 #84
What sickens me is that every time a terrible case comes to light such as this one, nothing appears to have been learnt from all the other awful child abuse cases previous to it.

The problem is that with social services in particular, it's dominated by a white middle class clique that lives somewhat in a bubble. I know one Muslim social worker in the UK, and she's very clear that there exists a certain way of thinking that stops them calling a spade a spade. I wouldn't call it political correctness, rather just a situation in which they know that they've got a comfortable life and they don't want to do anything that might threaten it.

Probably one of the best things I read on the subject was several years ago, in which it was suggested that it would be better to hire social workers on the basis of what they can do rather than on qualifications. The example given - black teenagers in London won't respect some white woman from the Home Counties, but they will bloody well listen to a black ex-soldier who will tell them exactly how it is in their language. Same story with teaching.
Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
31 Jan 2016 #85
Social services are quite bad here in England

**** me!!!!!! You really are on a wind-up

Social services did a really great job with my nearest and dearest, and I simply will not hear a bad word. He had a terrible accident and they have consistently cared for him excellently. in Poland he would be dead.

Dead. Or treated like a mental illness and locked away. Or in fact, just put out on the streets for his family to cope as best they could.

Don't talk bollocks in future lad.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
31 Jan 2016 #86
Social services did a really great job with my nearest and dearest, and I simply will not hear a bad word.

I think it would be better to say that social services are bloody useless when it comes to child protection and ethnic minorities.
Roger5 1 | 1,457
31 Jan 2016 #87
a white middle class clique that lives somewhat in a bubble

I take issue with that. Front line social workers deal day-to-day with horrendous social problems, and have to deal with complex issues. A close relative of mine has just retired from a career in SW, and the stories he used to tell when he was at the sharp end were appalling. The kind of child abuse he used to hate most was that perpetrated by the educated middle classes. Lawyers, doctors, etc. knew the law and knew how to play the system. On the other hand, heroin-addicted single mother prostitutes were often seen as very good mothers, as they were well aware of how they had effed up their lives, and didn't want to pass it on. Social workers live in the real world. Too real for me, I know that.
Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
31 Jan 2016 #88
The problem is that with social services in particular, it's dominated by a white middle class clique that lives somewhat in a bubble.

Yeah - well, they did bang on about my brother's human rights, but actually that's good in certain circumstances. Some nurses wanted to stop him smoking, and that was stupid because it's one of his few pleasures. He can't read now or concentrate and doesn't remember what happened 5 minutes ago. So on my pleading with them, his social worker persuaded the rehab staff that smoking had nowt to do with his condition, and they had to concede that a cigarette (theoretically) every half hour (as he doesn't have the co-ordination or cognitive power to hold the cigarette) would be permissable ("under his human rights").

And there were plenty of black social workers around in the office when I visited, but I guess you are talking about managers and execs?

I think it would be better to say that social services are bloody useless when it comes to child protection and ethnic minorities.

Ah right - I concede I did snap a bit at the lad. Whisky and Andy Murray........... Social Services, as Roger said, do a job that I couldn't. They are way better than the police - who of course didn't bother trying to contact me when my brother was on life support for 3 weeks. They would have found me here bloody pronto in Gdynia if I had murdered somebody of course.
Chemikiem
1 Feb 2016 #89
I think it would be better to say that social services are bloody useless when it comes to child protection and ethnic minorities.

I think this is most people's perception of them these days, largely due to the headlines of sad cases such as the one we are discussing.

I think they are damned if they do or damned if they don't. The very last resort is removing a child from the family.

Personally, I think they are underfunded, overstretched, and the cases the public do get to hear about are the tip of the iceberg.
I wouldn't want that job for love or money.
More to the point though, in this case and others, it's a combination of failure on different fronts. It makes me wonder how well all these departments/agencies communicate with each other, because something is very wrong when the families have been visited by or been dealt with by social and health workers, police and teachers, and still the child wasn't removed from the parents to a place of safety.

By all accounts Daniel Pełka looked like a concentration camp victim and weighed the same as an 18 month old child before he died. Trying to steal other kids lunches and attempting to eat sand, were all the people involved in this case blind?

Most people dont give a damn, just come in for a paycheck.

I can't believe people are that heartless. I think the system is just badly flawed and unfortunately not getting any better.
Roger5 1 | 1,457
1 Feb 2016 #90
The very last resort is removing a child from the family.

Indeed, and we mustn't forget that, despite what the Daily Mail, etc. tells us, social workers do not remove children into care. They apply to a court. The court decides. If the court refuses and the child is subsequently abused, guess who gets the blame?


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