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The Guardian destroys the Kaczynski twins


Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
16 Feb 2016 #1
Writing in today's Guardian, Christian Davies writes a thesis on the conspiracy theorists that are/were thee Kaczynskis. I have never read a better developed and damning indictment of these fellows than this.

Of course Polonius and the rest will not read it, because it isn't what they want to hear, but it's all set out in black and white for the layman, exactly as it happened, from th first time Walesa crossed Jaroslaw Kaczynski by kicking him out of the presidential palace.

An excerpt - that really says it as it is.

"The Kaczyńskis' message that Poland's problems could be explained by the machinations of unseen forces resonated in a society subjected to rapid political, economic, and social upheaval, and which has a long memory of conspiracy and betrayal by Poles and foreigners alike. Offering Poles a comforting comic-book world in which true patriots do no wrong, the concept of the układ - of treacherous cooperation between the elite and foreign powers - allowed them to portray themselves as the sole heirs to Poland's heroic tradition of resistance".
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #2
Don't worry too much about what you read in the Guardian Dougpo "the newspaper's reputation as a platform for liberal and left-wing opinions" Source Wikipedia...

The Beano (Comic paper) prints more credible articles.
OP Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
16 Feb 2016 #3
The Beano (Comic paper) prints more credible articles.

Lol. Loved the Beano, and the Guardian has a long-lasting ONGOING history of credibility, which is unique today in the British Press, with the possible exception of the Torygraph, now that the Independent is no more, and now that The Thunderer is owned by the Murdoch Scum.

The Grauniad is an excellent source for what the Western Media really think of PIS.
Wulkan - | 3,251
16 Feb 2016 #4
Knowing the reputation of the Guardian that is the British version of Gazeta Wyborcza it's not surprising at all. The Guardian - The ugliest newspaper in Britain.

youtube.com/watch?v=GOgV6Fvc8wc
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #5
The Independent was also a left wing propaganda rag, luckily the people of Britain have seen the light and the paper has ceased printing (Only online), the guardian will soon follow.

KOD will have to find a new British mouthpiece.The Socialist Worker maybe their best choice.
jon357 63 | 14,282
16 Feb 2016 #6
A very good article - it collates and sums up the facts very well.

and the Guardian has a long-lasting ONGOING history of credibility

Yes - one of the top five most visited news websites in the world (no. 2 in the UK after the Daily Mail) and the only mainstream British publication that doesn't belong to investors - basically as independent as it gets.

That article is the best analysis of the appalling situation so far.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,897
16 Feb 2016 #7
Worth pointing out that The Torygraph has never been particularly favourable towards Jarosław as well, and regards PiS as being somewhat of a menace.
jon357 63 | 14,282
16 Feb 2016 #8
The Torygraph

Same with The Times, The Economist - and any other sensible analysis.

Still, they've got Fronda on their side :-)))))
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #9
"collates and sums up the facts very well" Many avid Pravda readers would completely agree.
jon357 63 | 14,282
16 Feb 2016 #10
Many avid Pravda readers would completely agree

That doesn't make much sense at all. Is there anything in the article that you can identify as inaccurate?
jon357 63 | 14,282
16 Feb 2016 #12
his silly author

All you've actually done is say you disagree, which is entirely your right. You haven't been able to point out even one inaccuracy though, have you?

Just ranting about "self-proclaimed Emperor Merkel" and some very unscientific comments about migrants spreading mysterious diseases...
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #13
" Is there anything in the article that you can identify as inaccurate", I Never bothered reading Pravda or the Socialist Worker, you cant argue with left wing Communist

Propagandists.

It is better to inform the readers of this forum when articles come from a biased source.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Feb 2016 #14
The Guardian destroys the Kaczynski twins

And the meaning of that "destruction" is about as huge as of that of "W Sieci" destroying Merkel....
delphiandomine 83 | 17,897
16 Feb 2016 #15
Except The Guardian is taken far more seriously than W Sieci, not least because The Guardian isn't a Party mouthpiece.

It is better to inform the readers of this forum when articles come from a biased source.

In other words, you haven't got any evidence whatsoever to suggest that the article is misleading.

Put up or shut up, as they say. Furthermore, The Guardian has been far more supportive of the Poles than most.
jon357 63 | 14,282
16 Feb 2016 #16
you cant argue with left wing Communist Propagandists

About as far from the truth as possible; and the source is beyond reproach.

The article (more an analysis given the length) is very well-written and sums it up beautifully.

And you still can't point out even one inaccurate statement.
Ironside 49 | 10,199
16 Feb 2016 #17
All you've actually done is say you disagree

Hmm ....you must have been reading it through your rose-tinted glasses, again.
I have point out here he lie, where he twists and when he misinform by manipulating. One needs to remember that his article is aimed at readers who know very little about Poland. Conjuring images of religious people in fumes of opiate clouds manipulated by a megalomaniac populist fueled by the vengeance and resentment is only an repetition of the line exploited by the GW for so long.,

Is he on Michnik payroll as well? Seems so as he never bothered to have point out that GW and her friends ardent defense of commie criminals and traitors turned into an art by accusing everyone who disagree with them of being populists, religious fanatics, vengeful twists or fascist and anti-Semites. The length that rag goes to in slandering people has no bounds.
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #18
" source is beyond reproach" A typical Propagandist statement, there is no reply to this type bullying, any attempt of reasonable debate by me would be shot down with "This thread is beyond reproach and cannot be debated", totalitarianism in action.
jon357 63 | 14,282
16 Feb 2016 #19
here he lie, where he twists and when he misinform by manipulating

And not one word of your objections stands up to the cold hard facts of the article.

religious people in fumes of opiate clouds manipulated by a megalomaniac populist fueled by the vengeance and resentment

That actually paints a fairly accurate picture of the situation. Except he isn't in any sense a populist - in fact he had to appoint a puppet Premier since he himself is electorally toxic.

"This thread is beyond reproach and cannot be debated"

Check out the meaning of 'beyond reproach'. The Guardian (and possibly the Telegraph) are the two most credible and respected sources.

It was easy to guess that some here would try to attack the source of the excellent article and it hasn't worked; the source is entirely independent, there is no 'agenda' (though PIS conspiracy mavens would love there to be) and there is not one word in the article that is misleading in any way.

Let's hope more follow in a similar vein; people, particularly decision makers, really do need to be aware of how awful the current regime is and what an appalling history Jaro etc have.
Ironside 49 | 10,199
16 Feb 2016 #20
And not one word of your objections stands up to the cold hard facts of the article.

That what you say and what it is.

That actually paints a fairly accurate picture of the situation.

:D
delphiandomine 83 | 17,897
16 Feb 2016 #21
Could perhaps one of the detractors of the article point out an inaccuracy?

Insulting the author or the publisher instead of coming up with facts is a tried and tested Communist tactic, which certainly explains why some people are using such tactics.
historyremember
17 Feb 2016 #22
Interesting article, yet the journalist does not understand the complexity of a nation which has been robbed of its national identity for over forty years. Thirty years ago English Journolists considered Irish upstarts the thorn in the side of democracy. In respect of history nothing is forgiven or forgotten in Poland, Germans and Rusians will continue to be friendly nieghbors with a past which is not forgotten.

Jon, PIS is a democratly elected party by the people for the people. If you are eligible to vote in Poland voice your opinion at the ballot box at the next elections.
jon357 63 | 14,282
17 Feb 2016 #23
yet the journalist does not understand the

More that he understands but doesn't feel the need (and why should he?) to present the article from a traditional Polish point of view; he is a neutral analyst not a polemicist and to take sides would be inappropriate.

Thirty years ago English Journolists considered Irish upstarts the thorn in the side of democracy

Hard to know what you mean here; thirty years ago English (do you mean British) journalists obviously wrote about Ireland however relations between the two countries were good. By 'upstarts', do you mean the IRA and INLA?

If so, homicidal terrorists and indiscriminate mass murderers would be a more appropriate term than 'upstarts'.

If you are eligible to vote in Poland voice your opinion at the ballot box at the next elections.

And in a democracy, we are entitled to point out the failings of any elected official or party.

Really, your comments are very strange. It's as if you feel that nobody should be able to criticise that particular party.
Harry
17 Feb 2016 #24
yet the journalist does not understand the complexity of a nation which has been robbed of its national identity for over forty years.

Perhaps you might like to check who the journalist is between you say such foolish things (helpful hint for you: he is Polish and so are both of his parents).
Historyremember
17 Feb 2016 #25
Remi Adekoya ? Harry...
jon357 63 | 14,282
17 Feb 2016 #26
Remi Adekoya

Who? Maybe you're looking at the wrong article.

Figures, I suppose.
Harry
17 Feb 2016 #27
Writing in today's Guardian, Christian Davies

Remi Adekoya ?

Need I say more?
Historyremember
17 Feb 2016 #28
Harry, please do say more. Many journo's release articles under a Nom De Plume, Christian Davies does not seem to be a regular contributor to the Guardian. As for being Polish and having Polish parents, so do many of the PolAms on this forum, which you and your little tribe would like to discredit on a regular bassis as not having knowledge of Poland realtime.
Atch 17 | 3,082
17 Feb 2016 #29
Remi Adekoye is not Christian Davies under a nom de plume if that's what you're suggesting. Here's his profile:
theguardian.com/profile/remi-adekoya
jon357 63 | 14,282
17 Feb 2016 #30
Many journo's release articles under a Nom De Plume

This one doesn't in this case.

Hard to guess where you got the Remi Adekoya thing from (though after all, he is a highly respected commentator on Polish matters and a former editor of the Warsaw Business Journal) however it seems (so very very normal for PIS-it's) that you don't want to admit that you are just plain wrong...

Undignified.


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