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Is Poland a poor country?


milky 13 | 1,657
17 Feb 2012 #91
Stick to the essential requirements of life and move on from there.
Car, Petrol, Mortgage/rent,children;then decide how different Poland is to France,UK, Germany etc...Talking about the price of clothes and vegetable is..............dfghjklsdfjnhgdlfbhklj
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
17 Feb 2012 #92
Aren't clothes and food basic essentials of life?
a.k.
17 Feb 2012 #93
some people think Poland is a wealthy country and some people think it's a poor country.

Who thinks it's a wealthy country? not poor doesn't mean wealthy. Nonetheless we already established that poor means not being on a par with Western Europe, so yes by this definition Poland is poor. I would say dirt poor.

People will get themselves into debt but as long as they have a name brand shirt or jeans than they appear wealthy and those that are super wealthy have so much name brand stuff it just becomes a tacky joke.

Often brand clothes are simply pretty. There's nothing wrong with wanting to look good.
milky 13 | 1,657
17 Feb 2012 #94
Aren't clothes and food basic essentials of life?

Not label clothes,waste of money. Basic food is cheap here,there is no arguing that;but!! its not 4 times cheaper than the West - considering the average industrial wage is.

Car, Petrol, Mortgage/rent,children are what is crippling the average Pole. That's why the population of Warsaw emigrated in the first year of joining the EU. Why else!! If Poland isn't poor why have several million emigrated and not returned??

Why is the population decreasing at a rapid rate; what is it??'predicted to be 29 million or something in 15 years from now'.
grubas 12 | 1,391
17 Feb 2012 #95
Relatively, because paying Western European prizes for global brands with your Central European salary makes you feel like a beggar.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.Poles would be more than happy to pay Western European (not to mention North American) prices for global brands.

That remainds me of a funny (I think) incident.When my mom visted me in the US,I took her to Tangier Outlets and among others we went to Tommy Hillfiger store.She bought some stuff and we left.Then in the car she looked at the change she got from cashier and said "I think this lady gave me TOO MUCH change",I looked at the change she was holding,then at the receipt and said "No,everything is right",my mom said "Really???Lets go back there!".She's on Polish teacher salary.
a.k.
17 Feb 2012 #96
Why else!! If Poland isn't poor why have several million emigrated and not returned??

Because Poland is poor comapring to Western European standards and no one say otherwise.
milky 13 | 1,657
17 Feb 2012 #97
many or most Polish people subjectively feel poor.

NO NO they are, its not their imagination.
pip 10 | 1,661
17 Feb 2012 #98
If Poland is so poor than why are so many new apartments, cars and other big ticket items still being purchased? They aren't cheap.
a.k.
17 Feb 2012 #99
Why is the population decreasing at a rapid rate; what is it??'predicted to be 29 million or something in 15 years from now'.

Why?

If Poland is so poor than why are so many new apartments, cars and other big ticket items still being purchased?

Comparing to Western Europe or Canada it is poor, don't you agree?
Lyzko
17 Feb 2012 #100
Pip, as noted earlier, many Poles may be "asset-rich, but cash-poor". Mostly likely, young couples pay for their first new apartment on credit, NOT in cash, therefore increasing their credit rating by upping their debt. The banks naturally take full advantage of this and later have to foreclose when it comes time to pay up, as most first-time home buyers simply can't afford it(;-
delphiandomine 83 | 17,915
17 Feb 2012 #101
Comparing to Western Europe or Canada it is poor, don't you agree?

Not exactly. Compare Warsaw to a grim ex-mining town/village in the UK and it's far better off, for instance. Jonny will tell you more than me, but in general - there are parts of Poland that are far better off than parts of the UK.

Mostly likely, young couples pay for their first new apartment on credit, NOT in cash, therefore increasing their credit rating by upping their debt. The banks naturally take full advantage of this and later have to foreclose when it comes time to pay up, as most first-time home buyers simply can't afford it(;-

In Poland, it's not so much of an issue now - the rules that surround the granting of mortgages have tightened up, and pretty much ensures that no-one will get a mortgage that they can't afford to pay back.
grubas 12 | 1,391
17 Feb 2012 #102
Why else!! If Poland isn't poor why have several million emigrated and not returned??

I emigrated because I don't want to feel screwed. ******* VAT,ZUS,akcyza,personal tax,CGT.And where is all that ******* money? **** that and **** EU taxes too!Now I pay 0 (zero,null,nada) % sale tax,no ZUS (well some SS but that's little money),no akcyza,15% CGT IF I reach certain treshold.Give me just universal healthcare and I will be a happy camper.
a.k.
17 Feb 2012 #103
Not exactly. Compare Warsaw to a grim ex-mining town/village in the UK and it's far better off, for instance.

Warsaw is a capital city, so don't compare capital city of any country to some backwaters. If you want to comapte ex-mining towns try to compare it with Katowice, Zabrze, Gliwice... how do they look comparing with English ex-mining towns?
pip 10 | 1,661
17 Feb 2012 #104
Comparing to Western Europe or Canada it is poor, don't you agree?

yes and no. I don't think it is a fair comparison - the war and communism didn't have the same effect so these countries didn't have to start from scratch. I think a more fair comparison would be as compared to the former eastern block countries.

I also think that Poland has an inferiority complex when compared to other countries- people have always left Poland to greener pastures so it is hard to imagine Poland as a rich country.

I also think it is easier to be poor in western Europe or Canada (not U.S) because there are social systems set up to help these people where as in Poland they don't exist to the same extent.

I emigrated because I don't want to feel ************** VAT,ZUS,akcyza,personal tax,CGT.And where is all that ******* ********* that and **** EU taxes too!Now I pay 0 (zero,null,nada) % sale tax,no ZUS (well some SS but that's little money),no akcyza,15% CGT IF I reach certain treshold.Give me just universal healthcare and I will be a happy camper.

so basically you want to work, pay no taxes and get free healthcare? interesting concept however taxes pay for health care. and who is responsible for your retirement and disability if you are injured?
milky 13 | 1,657
17 Feb 2012 #105
If Poland is so poor than why are so many new apartments, cars and other big ticket items still being purchased?

Easy question---Poles abroad.
a.k.
17 Feb 2012 #106
yes and no. I don't think it is a fair comparison - the war and communism didn't have the same effect so these countries didn't have to start from scratch. I think a more fair comparison would be as compared to the former eastern block countries.

we compare facts. And fact is the current state, not the past.

I also think that Poland has an inferiority complex when compared to other countries

Nothing wrong with saying the thruth.

people have always left Poland to greener pastures so it is hard to imagine Poland as a rich country.

Of course they have. Do you know why? Because a person who works labour can actually earn enough to carry a decent life on those greener pastures, while in Poland many people who do white collar jobs can't!

Easy question---Poles abroad.

Don't paint everything with the same brush. Poeple have business and earn money sometimes too.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,915
17 Feb 2012 #107
Of course they have. Do you know why? Because a person who works labour can actually earn enough to carry a decent life on those greener pastures, while in Poland many people who do white collar jobs can't!

Not really - a person who does a physical job in the UK is often better off being unemployed. It's not an easy life, especially if they live somewhere expensive.

As for white collar jobs in Poland - the issue with this is often that they perceive themselves to be of a certain status and demand the status symbols to fit. They then drown under a mountain of debt. I've seen it happen to someone who was earning around 4k netto - not horrible money, but she bought a very nice flat and car, then struggled to live. If she'd bought within her means, she would be fine.

If you want to comapte ex-mining towns try to compare it with Katowice, Zabrze, Gliwice... how do they look comparing with English ex-mining towns?

Katowice is definitely better off, but I've never been to the others so can't comment fairly.

I think a more fair comparison would be as compared to the former eastern block countries.

Recent comparison I can make is with the Czech Republic. Prague is behind Warsaw, and there doesn't appear to be much construction going on (unlike in Poland). It certainly seems like the statistics are heavily skewed in Poland because of the existence of many poor small farmers - which didn't exist in Czechoslovakia. I'd actually say that Poland is developing faster these days - I really saw little sign of construction in Prague, and places like Nachod are absolutely horrible.
grubas 12 | 1,391
17 Feb 2012 #108
Easy question---Poles abroad.

Say what?Sooner a cactus will grow on my hand than I will spend any serious money in Poland.No money for crooks from Grubas.Hell no!
pip 10 | 1,661
17 Feb 2012 #109
Do you have any statistics for this? My husband deals with white collar every day -in fact he is white collar- we are not poor- and my husband is 100% Polish. There is big money in Poland and a lot of it is Polish.
Wroclaw Boy
17 Feb 2012 #110
Walbrzych is an ex mining town and probably my second least favourite Polish city.

Lovely jubely
sa11y 5 | 331
17 Feb 2012 #111
Milky - Poles abroad. Some people (like me) leave for adventure, novelty - you name it. When I was leaving Poland for SA I had bucketful of doubts. But I still did it, even though at that time there was not much of financial advantage. You will always have people like that. Not because they had bad life but because they want to check if grass really is greaner on the other side of the fence. Is it?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,915
17 Feb 2012 #112
Walbrzych is an ex mining town and probably my second least favourite Polish city.

Isn't there a shitload of foreign investment there at the minute?

I was reading something a few days ago about the place, but I might have got mixed up...
pip 10 | 1,661
17 Feb 2012 #113
yes- but there are shiitholes like this all over the world. Canada has Hamilton, the U.S. has too many to list and then there are the mining towns in the U.K. If you grow up in a shiithole then there is good reason to leave. My husband grew up in Tri city- it is beautiful and always wanted to come back. He never lived in a block and because his father was an officer on a ship(staunch anti communist family) he always had access to western items. For him leaving Poland was a tragedy- but for somebody who grew up in, lets say, Pruszkow Gdansk- you might have a different feeling.
sa11y 5 | 331
17 Feb 2012 #114
Not necessarily Pip, I grew up in Kielce:-) For me leaving Poland had nothing to do with not being happy in Poland, it was not a tragedy but not a blessing either. But then I was told many times I'm not typical Polish woman :-)
Wroclaw Boy
17 Feb 2012 #115
Isn't there a shitload of foreign investment there at the minute?

Not that im aware of. Its a horrrible dirty looking city, lots of crubling old buildings, depressing people, Swidnica on the other hand about 15 KM's closer to Wroclaw is lovely.

Pip you seem to base most of your opinions on what you and your direct family have experienced, thats not the real world.
a.k.
17 Feb 2012 #116
Is this a joke? Poland lives in the past. The entire country is obsessed with history.

It's useless in this discussion. We comapre wealth regardless history. The OP doesn't ask why but whether.

Do you have any statistics for this?

No, but it's a common knowledge.
pip 10 | 1,661
17 Feb 2012 #117
pip: Do you have any statistics for this?

No, but it's a common knowledge.

why because you say so. total bullshiit. sorry. White collar workers in Poland make good money. I know this from living in Warsaw and also my husbands cousin in Tricity. Perhaps in Lublin and Bialystok they make less but that is typical.

common knowledge- please give me a link.
teflcat 5 | 1,032
17 Feb 2012 #118
there are shiitholes like this all over the world

Exactly, but hey

Bialystok

my turf, and a fine up-and-coming place which has seen amazing progress in the last ten years, especially since the previous corrupt President was ousted. Come and have a look. A great place. Don't you dare say Poland B!
ladykangaroo - | 165
18 Feb 2012 #119
Car, Petrol, Mortgage/rent,children

I do not consider any of these "essential", sorry :D

I don't think you know what you are talking about

Naaaah. It's totally not like I had to take a small loan to pay for my first mp3 player :D
Your mum might have been delighted with Hilfiger prices in US because they will be significantly higher in Poland. Bargain by comparison. Still crazy expensive when compared to an average salary in Poland.

There is big money in Poland and a lot of it is Polish.

Agree.
There are also rural areas with 90% unemployment rate and if you are lucky enough to eventually land a job you get a great salary of 1,200 - 1,400zl (and spend 500 on petrol / tickets / commuting to the nearest city). I also personally know white collar workers earning similar money in well-established international companies. I actually know PhDs in biology working for less than that (in Kraków, to be precise, not in Białystok).

(having said that I also know white collar workers earning easily five-digit figures monthly. They do exist, however rare they are).
a.k.
18 Feb 2012 #120
I also personally know white collar workers earning similar money in well-established international companies. I actually know PhDs in biology working for less than that (in Kraków, to be precise, not in Białystok).

That all reminded me a recent job ad I've read. An engineer needed - salary: 2000 - 2500 PLN lol


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