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WWII - who really was the first to help Poland?


Harry
6 Jan 2010 #211
even it's sad they didn't do anything :(

And there you go again: 'Britain didn't do anything to help Poland'. Please go and read a history book that wasn't written by a complete moron.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,177
7 Jan 2010 #212
Britain didn't do anything

You allmost got me there, I MENT FRANCE! You twist with my words!
BevK 11 | 248
7 Jan 2010 #213
Point is this maybe, what did Poles do?

What about the Uprisings? Polish Paras at Arnhem? etc.
Harry
7 Jan 2010 #214
You allmost got me there, I MENT FRANCE! You twist with my words!

In that case I apologise for my comment. I didn't mean to twist your words, I just misunderstood what you meant.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,177
20 Jan 2010 #215
I just misunderstood what you meant.

No problem, after your post I was reading my own post and I came to the same conlusion as you. It's my fault really
Nathan 18 | 1,349
24 Feb 2010 #217
so wet off course ; )
matteroftaste
24 Feb 2010 #218
The Americans sold Poland to Russia and Stalin

Did we ever have any obligations to help Poland. We also never signed anything like French and Brits did so quit blaming us.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
24 Feb 2010 #219
rather Curse and mark of Cain
but you ?curse of Ham :)
grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Feb 2010 #220
Hitler offered Poland also the possibility to become part of the anti-comintern pact already in 1935, what would had made Poland actually part of an anti-soviet alliance.
The Wehrmacht would proably still have marched through Poland, but not as an enemy but to fight the Soviets.
But they declined...so the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact came later..

Polish diplomacy was always more concerned with London and Paris these days...

Very true!No one is to be blamed for what has happend to PL,but Poles.Looking for friends far away and making enemies close.Same thing is happening now...Allying with hitler was the only sane thing to do.Just like hungarians, romanians and few others did.
hague1cameron - | 85
24 Feb 2010 #221
Poland invaded Czechoslovakia alongside Hitler after the Munich agreement to bite a chunk out of the helpless country, reasoning it with border disputes.
So don't sell me the polish holy innocence act here...Germany was just the much bigger bully to Poland...but this tactic is well known to all bullies.

This is not a fair comparison, The Czechs invaded first when the Poles were fighting the Bolsheviks. They were simply returning the favor.
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Feb 2010 #222
So Poland took advantage of a situation to further their own interest, therefore helping to legitimize the Munich agreement...

Did we ever have any obligations to help Poland. We also never signed anything like French and Brits did so quit blaming us.

Thank you for pointing out that glaringly obvious detail. The defense pact was in place to react if Poland was attacked by Germany, which did occur. The UK defense pact had nothing to do with internal affairs, nor did it have anything to do with the Soviets. As far as I could see, the UK lived up to their end of the deal... I don't know enough about the French pact.
hague1cameron - | 85
24 Feb 2010 #223
So Poland took advantage of a situation to further their own interest, therefore helping to legitimize the Munich agreement...

well with the French and the Brits and Italians legitimizing the whole thing it was pretty much a done deal. Besides I'am sure that the Czech minority would've preferred the Poles to the Germans given the chance.

And for the record I think that the Brits were great allies who did all they could under the circumstances, the same can't be said about the Americans.
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Feb 2010 #224
well with the French and the Brits and Italians legitimizing the whole thing it was pretty much a done deal.

Might as well hop on the bandwagon.

And for the record I think that the Brits were great allies who did all they could under the circumstances, the same can't be said about the Americans.

America was never in an alliance with Poland.
Ironside 53 | 12,493
24 Feb 2010 #225
pact had nothing to do with internal affairs

What internal affairs? if you are referring to the post-war Poland, she had no internal affairs, her internal affairs were internal Soviets matters.
You guys use it as an excuse, it may well work for clueless American public but the charm doesn't work here.

America was never in an alliance with Poland.

well, wasn't it fight for democracy and the justice , against tyrants and bad boys ?

if so, it was an moral obligation on the American part to help Poland not concentrate efforts on taking over British Empire and remains of French power to become Hermon of the western civilization.

Some people take as a face value,propaganda about a better new world and for some the justice and self-determination aren't only big words in a dictionary.

I don't have a problem with USA standing during WWII regarding Poland as I'm not buying American government BS and propaganda but because of that I'm accused by some of anti-Americanism, which in itself is laughable because

according to this logic only brainless idiots and simpletons are pro-American. :D
matteroftaste
24 Feb 2010 #226
the same can't be said about the Americans.

Unlike you guys, we were never obligated to help Poland whatsoever.
Your help however was rather miserable. We don't need to argue, just ask Poles on PF how they feel about it.

well, wasn't it fight for democracy and the justice , against tyrants and bad boys ?

and did we sign anything like you guys did with UK and France? If you want to blame anyone, blame the right ones.
time means 5 | 1,309
24 Feb 2010 #227
Unlike you guys,

He is not British (Thank fcuk)!
matteroftaste
24 Feb 2010 #228
(Thank fcuk)!

you're welcome

To be honest with you, this whole blaming bs is messed up anyway. the war is over and gone. Move on guys.
Harry
24 Feb 2010 #229
Unlike you guys, we were never obligated to help Poland whatsoever.

Could you perhaps point me in the direction of the treaty which I signed?
matteroftaste
25 Feb 2010 #231
Could you perhaps point me in the direction of the treaty which I signed?

No point to answer to anything here anymore. The mods played God again. I guess it must be the post communist syndrome, keep people's mouths shut and decide when and what they say.
Harry
25 Feb 2010 #232
denial is not a excuse Harry

Lying is not a way to debate Marek, we were hoping that you would have learned that by now.
Marek11111 9 | 808
25 Feb 2010 #233
Well Harry maybe you can point my lies, what did I lied about?
Ogorki - | 114
25 Feb 2010 #234
Witam....
I'm really hoping this thread doesn't become an argument, and I wanna avoid that b/c i just wanna learn about this, but...about ww2 and Poland, who really was the first to help poland?

Not so straight forward is it? - but very emotional as you can see. But for you - a what if scenario... but first -

As far as I could see, the UK lived up to their end of the deal...

The UK end of the deal was: In the case of a German invasion, the UK would do everything in it's power to help Poland. The UK and Franch were both much stronger and richer than Poland. UK had the largest navy. Franch had the largest army/defenses on the Planet. People were aware that war was looming for a long time. Time enough to be reasonably prepared. I doubt very much that the outbrake of war was a 'surprise'.

Very true!No one is to be blamed for what has happend to PL,but Poles.Looking for friends far away and making enemies close.Same thing is happening now...Allying with hitler was the only sane thing to do.Just like hungarians, romanians and few others did.

Someone has the set an example of how it's done - otherwise the whole of humanity will eventually go up your ass!

Dunkirk - both France and UK outnumbered by 2:1 held the Germans for 10 days and fled.

Westerplatte - Poles outnumbered 20:1 hold the Germans for 7 days, still able to fight but run out of ammo.
...

Here are the French half-heartedly attacking the Germans on the Western front and retreating. And yes they did drop leaflets at first! Not very usefull (for facks sakes).

The Poles are then seen counter attacking the Germans with cavalry support. More usefull.
(Note* No German tanks.)
...

The French could have held the Germans in the west like the Poles held them in the East -
if they were the same calibre of fighter as the Pole. Here is a typical example of the Polish fighting mentality, tenacity and heroism. Poles outnumbered 58:1! Held back the Germans.

youtube.com/watch?v=AoQj8GGHNxU

The French could have done the same and allowed the Poles to complete and unleash the Wolf - which was in production.
youtube.com/watch?v=thFecaq-dfk&feature=related

The Hawk which was in production
youtube.com/watch?v=Nr4ky-UGTm4&feature=related

The Los Polish bomber (produced before the Heinkel) was being refitted but a few
got into the air to bomb the Germans
youtube.com/watch?v=HIPEuXHydvM&feature=related

The first plane to have twin wheels becuase of the extra large bomb bay
youtube.com/watch?v=JkaJy3XJf2g&feature=related

Are we saying that Poland was more advanced than the UK and France? Did the allies not have these capabilities on the western front?

Just imagine - what if the French and the Brits showed the same conviction, dedication, foresight as the Poles. Compared to the UK and France, Poland was nothing, but look how they fought! How long do you think the war would have lasted if France and the UK did the same?

If only they had helped. If only they had fought. If only.

We know a song about that don't we? :) ;)
...
grubas 12 | 1,384
29 Mar 2010 #235
The first ones to help Poles were Hungarians.
Babinich 1 | 455
29 Mar 2010 #236
Ogorki: Are we saying that Poland was more advanced than the UK and France? Did the allies not have these capabilities on the western front?

For what it is worth the UK and France suffered tremendous loses during WWI. The psychological damage was devastating. Neither of those nations wanted war; who would?

As for the England waiting to declare war on September 3rd 1939 as opposed to an immediate declaration I see Chamberlain's delay as commendable. He was shoring up his frontal defenses and looking to keep the English school children safe.

Not many have been chided by history more than Chamberlain. I believe that Chamberlain to be a much better man that history paints him to be.

Remember too that the England and France had command level disagreements on force deployment.

That said it is true that the Phony War was a great opportunity for the Allies. The Ardennes buildup was quite apparent and the Germans vulnerable.

Face it; the Allies were disorganized and both nations felt the effects of the First World War. Quite simply the will was not there.

So being surrounded by two of the most heinous regimes in history coupled with residual effects of WWI left Poland twisting in the wind.

Once the war began Poland contributed to the Allies war effort. Poland had a chance until the death blow was dealt in November of 1943 at Tehran.
Harry
29 Mar 2010 #237
hague1cameron: This is not a fair comparison, The Czechs invaded first when the Poles were fighting the Bolsheviks. They were simply returning the favor.

Have you ever considered actually reading a history book instead of just blindly believing Polish myths?
Czarnkow1940 5 | 94
29 Mar 2010 #238
Nazi's and Soviets invaded Poland because they wanted to, they did it in 1795 with the partitions and did it again in 1939. Fact.

Britain tried to help Poland by giving Hitler an Ultimatum. If he invaded Poland we would be at war. This was supposed to stop the war. Fact.[/quote

Nobody was first to help Poland because no one even helped them they all thought about themselves they didn't care what was happening in Poland until it effected them e.g USA.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,177
31 Mar 2010 #239
they did it in 1795 with the partitions and did it again in 1939. Fact.

1. Soviet Union didn't exist during partitions FACT
2. Nazi Germany or GERMANY AT ALL didn't exist during the partitions FACT
3. How could they do it again when they didn't do it at first?

I think you are confusing Tsarist Russia with Soviet Union! No?
Also confusing Kingdom of Prussia with Nazi Germany? No?

I hope I don't have to remind you that the people of those countries were slaves to the men-in-power!
Origins of "Za waszą i naszą wolność!" comes from "propaganda" targeting Russian people!

I agree SOME of the leaders of Soviet Union had roots from Tsarist Russia and SOME Nazi Germans had origins from the Kingdom of Prussia (but Prussian officers were sooo hated by the Nazis)

Your logic is inaccurate mate
As both you and me know that the ideology of Russians during the era from the time of partitions until the creation of Soviet union was QUITE different then what was in Soviet union later on

Same with Prussia-->Nazi Germany for that matter
kondzior 11 | 1,046
31 Mar 2010 #240
Nation =! Government
i.e.
Poland of Mieszko I = Poland of Pilsudski = today Poland
Tsarist Russia = Soviet Russia = today Russia
Kingdon of Prussia + some other German lands = Nazi Germany = today Germany
etc

Changes of goverments are secondary things


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