Do Poles take Kaczynski seriously!?

I personally find many Kaczyński haters insane (after reading many comments in various places in the internet) - and most who vote against him only have a loose connexion to Polish political realities (like only read headlines of articles on the web) - (of course there are plenty of people who are afraid of Kaczyński for very specific reasons - people like Sławomir Misiak, Beata Sadowska, Mirosław Drzewiecki ect are only the tip of the iceberg of those who are afraid for a reason - not because someone told them that Kaczyński is evil

I think both the haters and the fans are pushed over the edge by the populist cult of personality that was cultivated around them. It becomes a stupid emotional issue rather than a rational one.

what insane did Lech Kaczyński do in your eyes? or was it not the things he did but something else?

Canceling his Weimar Triangle meeting because he got his panties into a twist over an article in a private newspaper would be one. The debacle at the EU summit... But hey, maybe that's just me.

well, maybe it is true that he did that because he was pissed off by the article - but IIRC the official reason was some kind of health condition (diarrhoea?)- how do we know that it wasn't that way - because Gazeta Wyborcza instisted?


well, why a debacle actually - if you care to explain
- it proved Poland could not force its position and had noone on her side (except international political scientists including Germans) for reasons obscure to me - perhaps there was some fault on Polish diplomacy's side - I don't know any details) - so Poland went for a compromise that would be advantageous for Poland even if only in a short term - had Poland chose to object to the whole Treaty thing it would definitely end up ostracised a possibly suffer other difficulties in the EU (their were voices to get Poland rid of the EU before the summit - perhaps it was just a rhetorical black-mail but who knows now)

btw if you had seen the man in an interview with Tomasz Lis once you wouldn't call him insane - he was eloquent, intelligent, self-assured and calm enough to dominate Lis (Lis is not a Kaczyński lover as you probably know) - sadly I haven't found the interview in youtube

if that's the case, then he has fooled a lot of people.

Weather Poles take him seriously or not is not the issue. I think he should be taken seriously as a treat to democracy in Poland and siding with CC to stay in power.Anything to win people's votes. I think he is a very crafty player.

Yes a lot of Poles do take him seriously, he's rhetoric maybe clumsy but there's a LOT of things he gets right.

it's not that i'm defending Kaczynski but most of his haters don't even know for what they hate him so much. they hate him because everybody hates him and the EU hates him so it's cool to hate him.i'm not sure i'd ever vote for him in future but i'm glad he is in Poland because it seems he's the only one who really looks at Tusk's hands.

i've also noticed most of the greatest Kaczynski haters are very young people..including teenagers who have hardly any idea of politics.
same with Radio Maryja. it's funny how people perceive it. i'm not a fan of father Rydzyk but an absolute majority of RM haters have NEVER listened to it.except a few sentences taken out of context. i don't think that TVN is much more objective source of info about Polish politics than RM.both are very one-sided although Rydzyk at least tells tings directly.

i don't understand why Tusk is so popular in Poland... he can only talk bullshit how successful and powerful Poland is nowadays....there's no crisis here at all. zielona wyspa. then why are there such long queues in PUP in my city?like never before. Poles like to listen to good fairy tales even though they know the reality is different they love to here that everything is soooo fine. whereas soon 1 more million people will emigrate to Germany and Austria for work... of course it's Donald success:D

he is not - he makes scores of political mistakes - often divulging on issues and in situations it is best not to - hardly a good politician

media are equally a threat of democracy - it is actually media+PO cooperation that creates monster out of Kaczyński - media are a threat to democracy because they paint false pictures, manipulate, disinform, misinform, twist and bend :p - the media created hate of Kaczyńskis creates a split in the society the size never seen in this country after the war - it is not only Kaczyński that is hated, it is mostly all who support him or even dare to criticize the current govenment (no matter how good your arguement is) - you will notice that if you read various political sites and the comments of the readers

Right... That's where deputizing those duties come into play.


It was with regards to two Polish representatives being at the summit. Remember the one about the financial crisis where Rostowski ended up giving up his seat at the table...

Honestly, both Kaczynski and Tusk are socialists...they're held in about equal light as far as I'm concerned.

in disguise ! :)
That's what I tell everyone but nobody seems to believe me! lol

oh well Kaczynski is social-conservative. Economically socialist, while ideas conservative :)

yes, it would be a very good solution - perhaps the prime minister could go in case of president's illness - now it is an interesting story to find out if the prime minister would be accepted at such a meeting

That kind of defines PO as well :) ...actually, that does a good job of describing a chunk of Poland.


That's kind of what happens across the world, I would go with FM myself, but hey, I'm not running any countries yet. The German participant for instance was the Chancellor, not the President.

The thing i like about Kaczyński is that he recognizes EU as a joke, every country tugs in their own direction and so should we, the thing i dont like about him is that he says so openly.

yeah I can remember it but vaguely - tbh I don't know why Kaczyński insisted he should go there too - and PO made much fuss and put obstacles (wouldn't give him a plane to fly there) to Kaczyński demanding presence in Brussels - ironically on the day of the flight Tusk's plane broke down and he had to fly on the board of the plane given to Kaczyński

i also remembered a totally failed Kaczyński PR stunt to pat Tusk in the conference hall - Kaczyński was a weak actor and made an idiot of himself in the act (in front of the cameras)


the story has two dimensions - one is that Kaczyński is not a best politician/diplomat - the other there is a need to voice such things in Poland perhaps in a more blunt language - because of too much blind-euroenthusiasm and because there are plenty people in Poland who think the same and they can rally around politicians who use such statements

Why not make it a plank to leave the EU instead of whining and moaning about it? That would put him into a much more credible position instead of looking like a populist stooge.


Because he had to things to say to the gathering of PMs and FMs :)

yeah, everyone is a social-conservative, only different tongues :p

Kaczynski is just a Jewish puppet to keep Poland & Russia forever divided.
Jews, Germans for centuries have made sure Poland & Russia would always remain divided. Because

if Poland & Russia started working together. We would be a direct threat to Western, German & Jewish power.

Keeping Slavs down is a main agenda of Non Slavs like Jews, Germans & Western Europeans. Kosovo is the latest string of this.

I think you'll find that PO have more Jews in their ranks than PiS, PMoc. I understand the rest of your logic though.

you have misunderstood Sokrates, convex - he meant that Kaczyński is calling things their real name in Europe (even if sometimes exaggeratedly) and it is not in line with the official EU language and notions (important sensitive matters are not discussed publicly in Brussels) EU and espacially Germany within EU are pressing specific Political Correctness - for various reasons Kaczyński would not or could not conform

Kaczyński is not an euro-scepthic - he can see the benefits of the EU clearly but can also see dangers in many aspects

I see it more as wanting your cake and eating it too.

He was perceived as the barking little dog which unfairly gave Poland the title of 'Awkward Partner' in Europe. Obstinance can be a positive trait when confronted with those that want to get their own way but, in politics, just characters are often 'dealt with'.

btw don't you believe in a strategy of changing the EU from within - is Poland only a subject of the EU ?? - is not even moaning a way to show other partners that we don't like this or that in the EU (sure there are better strategies if your aim is to change something or stop some change)


very round statement - but hmm care to elaborate - btw I don't think Kaczyński has this attitude toward the EU (he is a very reasonable guy in many matters, I even doubt he believes very much in some of his strongests rhetorics)

Not at all. I think that bureaucracy begets bureaucracy. Either you give up your sovereignty or not.


That's what makes him come across as a populist instead of a leader. Not saying that either one of them are dumb, the populist message just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But like I said, I'm not a fan of statists, which both of the leading parties are. When you mix in populism with it, a lot of people get turned off.

You didnt understand, EU means business and money, it is however a front for Germany and France tugging each their own way at the expense of others, Poland as well.

The good policy is to keep dancing but oppose internally, Kaczyński is a good man because he recognizes we're getting f*cked in the arse, he's a bad politician though because he declares it openly.


Poland was attempting to guard its own iterests and this is what gave Poland a title of awkward partner, when i read german and french newspapers Poland is a good partner when it nods to initiatives that serve these countries, if it tries to pursue its own well being it suddenly becomes an awkward partner.

Kaczyński needs to learn to be discreet though, you dont declare your intentions like that if you're an important public figure.

In this day and age, measured pragmatism is key. A certain stand has to be taken at certain times but many might say that JK oversteps the mark when it comes to the EU. He needs to ask all those affected by the EU (I have big businesses foremost in mind here) what they think rather than battering out his preconceptions and populist rhetoric, laden with slogans.

convex

I don't believe it is that black and white - I don't even all that is between has to be grey

He does not, he does the same thing Germans and French are doing, his mistake is he's doing it openly.

Do you think that he did it effectively while in power?

well in my view a political leader with noble goal can possibly revert to populism - a populist in my understanding is a very specific guy who uses his populistic rhetorics mainly to his own (or his party) benefit