Did you know that Polish army is the weakest in Central Europe?..

Amathyst does have a point too. The international community talks a good game through the auspices of the UN Security Council and NATO but crucial action is not taken time and time again. I don't see why Britain had to enter but we were in very early. Besides, we are often told how mighty the Polish army was in 1933, that they could have taken Germany out in a day or a week. Well, the world is gonna get more hostile so I suggest that Poland arm itself to the teeth.

We are hellishly armed already, jewphilanderer Torq says so.... No need to worry at all, no enemy is able to crush us... We should peacefully and humbly cultivate "jewish contribution" to our culture and passively wait for better times..

These people care about our future:

That's because you are not deep in the enemy making business these days.

As I said - there's no need to provide further proofs of your retardness. You have already convinced everyone.

You should also refrain from saying "we are" when referring to Poland and from using
the word "our" when referring to Polish army or politicians. You called BB your German
brother (as you said yourself, you have a German father and citizenship) so apparently
you considered yourself German.

Nothing wrong with being German, by the way, but I have to say that of all the Germans
I've ever met, you are by far the most annoying one (and the least intelligent too).

I wanted to say it in Polish:

Purplewolf, this forum is not for German or Polish language. Secondly, why the talk of better? Torq is a Pole who, to my knowledge, is well read and on the ball. Sandpits you play in when you are young. Adults discuss adult matters ;)

Yeah - I saw that. My reply went to Random too :-)

Yes, we should have. But in that case, we would be probably listed on a "terrorists' supporting countries list", that was assembled by Bush administration those times :-(

purplewolf

Thats a bit rich, coming from someone who sees unaware that Poland is part of Nato.

Nato is a mutual defence, pact you know?

I am Polish, I don't believe in "pacts" and "friendships"... We were f**ed up by our so called "friends" so many times, that it would be a sign of a total stupidity to still naively believe that someone could protect us from our potential and/or real enemies... Nobody will die for Poles except from themselves...

I'm guessing he does, Peterweg. Polish troops have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan along with so many other countries. Such lack of awareness would be of epic proportions.

Don't believe in pacts and friendships because you are Polish? Boy, you are twisted! Let's give 1,000,000 Poles sth to think about by breaking the free movement rules of the EU, what then?

So why join NATO then?

Every pact is over in the face of war, especially when it comes to Poland that means little for the Western World.. Nobody would help us if we were attacked by Russia or one of its satelite-countries... Accept the sad truth, the sooner, the better.. The NATO membership should be just an addition to strong army and (possibly) a nuclear weapon...

Make your mind up. You were only calling BB your "German brother" a while back.

Pacts are nothing but paper. Neville Chamberlain found that out, we lived thorough corrupt UN pacts/directives & we continue to see the folly of pacts concerning NATO's involvement in Afghanistan.

You haven't much idea about military aviation, have you? F-16 is indeed an old technology, but the aircraft are new and in newest version, with modern electronics, and therefore are better, than most of mentioned aircraft in Europe, that entered service 10-20 years ago. Especially Russian Su-27s are old examples. The only modern fighters manufactured by Russian through past 20 years were export variants of Su-27/Su-30 for India and other countries - while the Russian military budget was too poor to afford newest Su-27 variants. And a technology of Mirage 2000, F-18 Hornet and Su-27 is only marginally newer, than F-16's - compare first flight dates, all in the 1970s ;)

Having said this, I still regret, that Poland hadn't bought Gripens, which were newer, cheaper, European ...and not demanding sterile runways. In addition, their manufacturer offered fair offset proposals (contrary to Lockheed) and serious customer support - for the USA, Poland is one of dozens of F-16 customers, and definitely not too important one...

He hasn't much idea about anything to be honest.

Torq already has him nailed down.


Short but sweet and bang on the money :-)

A good synopsis and in a way I'm sad Sweden lost the Gripen order (I'm raised in Sweden). However, overall Poland got a much better airplane, the only advantage Gripen has over F16 is the turn radius which is irrelevant as the good o'le dogfights are a thing of the past. Nowadays you get killed miles and miles before you even get to "see" the enemy. It's a well-proven fighting bird and I guarantee you the Polish aviators will love it.

Pib - where's your detailed knowledge come from?

So what?.. I don't get your point..

I'm not a fan of NATO as posters here will know. Still, Poland chose to sign up in 1999 and hasn't withdrawn. If it is indeed a foregone conclusion that nobody would bat an eyelid if Russia attacked Poland, why not pull out of NATO? It would send a good message to Serbs and others that see through the lie of The War on Terror.

Why stop there? Why not pull out of the UN?

Yeah, fat lot of good they have done in the world. The NWO's puppet whose strings need to be cut. They let genocide happen in Srebrenica (more population control) and left a lasting pretext. Morrignon and Dutchbat even rounded up men and kids to be led off to their death.

relax, I was joking taking into consideration all the WW2 bashing "who helped who", "Poland was sold" bleeting :) I prefer a lighter approach to these topics, devoided of vexatious litigants. And although I don't wholly agree with what you've just said I'll say no more to avoid what I had been making fun of earlier.

I wish the US pulled out of the UN. The organization is basically controlled by third world corrupt regimes.

With the "saved" money I'd rather strengthen and modernize Nato instead.

Knowing frd through correspondence, Amathyst, he was just joking. There are many hardliners who mean it but he isn't one of them. He is aware that the world has moved on and is also aware of the strengths of the Polish Army given the pervasive presence of conscription up to Nov 2008.

Strengthen and modernise NATO, how exactly? So that it could beat a group of old weirdie beardies in an extended mountain resort? ROTFL

These multi-national defense initiatives are ridiculous. They look good on paper but when the rubber hits the road they're practically meaningless.

If history has taught us anything it is that you're only as strong as your will to defend yourself.

NATO or not, UN is really in shambles since the srebrenica genocide, overbureaucratization makes it slow to react and to "act" at all, all these farsical peace missions. It needs some serious reorganization.

Spot on, frd! The tragic irony is, guess who drew up the Genocide Convention in 1948? Sad buggers!

No C-130s are a joke, F-16s however were a solid purchase well worth the money, my only beef is that we bought 48 instead of 96 but thats our f*cked up politicians for you.


Ukraine is exporting weapons and subsystems to no one at the moment, by comparison Poland recently had deals with Malaysia, India, Peru and Iraq.


Last i checked the technology we have in our F-16s is from the 2000s and is all the way up there with the most modern aircraft in the world.


Actually we have 48 awesomely modern F-16s, 30 adequate MiG-29s and approximately 40 SU-22s used in ground attack role, all in all around 70~ fighters and 40 ground attack aircraft and our airforce ranks in the top 5 best trained forces in the world, we're so far ahead of any post-communist republic its not even funny.

As for our tanks we have currently 116 modern 2A4s, 200~ semi modern PT-91s and some 600~ T-72s and unlike say Ukraine which has 2000 tanks but only 500-600 capable of even moving all 940 of our tanks are operational and our tankers are counted among the elite in their class in NATO.


Well... lets look at what Poland bought in the last 10 years:

600+ XXI century generation APCs.
48 F-16s.
Spike AT systems.
Krab - XXI century SPH artillery system.
Liwiec - next gen artillery radar.
And lots more.

What did Ukraine or Belarus bought in the last 10 years? Ukraine bought 8 modernized tanks, Belarus bought nothing.

We're working on light tanks, next gen IFVs, next gen infantry components, autonomous combat robotics and XXI century rifle projects, the remaining post soviet countries cant even dream about the purchases and research we're doing in Poland.

Sure Polish military has a long way to go but if you're comparing us to weak states like Ukraine or Belarus there's no contest, Poland could probably defeat both countries at the same time in an unlikely event of the war.


Europe could not offer us an equally good/cheap fighter aircraft and i'm not going to see my country throw out money it has little of.

I have already invaded your country - how do you expect to fight a war when you don't know who the enemy is?

We know it very well... ;)