Medicine is open to anyone at a public university in English, as long as you've got the money to pay.
Actually medicine is one of the very few schools in England where they have numerus clausus.The result is that almost no Greek manages to study in UK medicine since the requirements in exam(A levels how do you call them?) are very high and the students who try to study abroad are exactly those who failed to be admitted in the greek system because of low grades.So they simply lack the necessary abilities to compete.
On the other hand the ones who have passed the exams in the greek system would have easily got access to UK medical schools in a 80% at least because they are top students.
In fact the greek students with low abilities who study abroad have created an awful reputation for the greek system and the intellectual abilities of Greeks while the native ones(eg Greeks who have been born in Germany and study in Germany) have created good impressions because they are not negatively selected.
"Maturity exam" makes no sense for native speakers of English (a 'maturity exam' would certainly not have much in common with Matura).
It's actually not as clear cut as that. Matura was in fact officially called egzamin dojrzałości - literally, 'maturity exam'. pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egzamin_dojrza%C5%82o%C5%9Bci
They are referring to another educational system and applying terminology that is atypical, Darius. Want another example that would lead to confusion? cs.tut.fi/~kypsyys/index-english.html now tell me that education is uniform.
We need closest equivalents and not terms which serve to mislead.
It was called that in the context of the Polish system, alex. WHY the need for direct translation? Is 'nie rób wiochy' actually 'don't make a village' in English? No. It's not any maturity exam in English.
"Maturity exam" makes no sense for native speakers of English (a 'maturity exam' would certainly not have much in common with Matura).
"Maturity exam" is the exact term when some US and UK schools refer to Austrian, Swiss or Hungarian equivalents, but when a Pole proposes the same term in reference to Polish reality then it makes absolutely no sense to anglos, and some even suggest that their parents would have no idea what that means.
Funny, huh? Perhaps English, not Polish, is the most difficult language after all. Obviously even anglos are not sure what words mean and which ones to use and when.
Darek, ask delphiandomine here. We call it sth different, is that so hard to understand? My parents both have Masters Degrees but don't know of any maturity exams.
We don't feel the need to translate. Only some do when referring to foreign systems. End of!
Here's one of our best universities (the best, I'd say), Darius ed.ac.uk/studying/international/country/europe-russia/polan d/matura, note the terminology used. Yes, it is NOT an English language expression so why translate it to maturity exam or mature exam? That's just a nonsense.
I've explained everything before, Darek, and won't do it again. Knowing and understanding are 2 different things.
Exactly, aphro. It's Matura, end of. Matriculation is what I did at the start of every new year of university, aphro. No more terms, please. It's Matura.
No, you would have found 'the Polish Matura' if you had cared to open the link. Besides, Matura is a singular term. We say Revised Highers, plural. It's not one exam, it's many. A maturity exam would make it sound like an access test.
Maturity is a broad term which we don't use to refer to our Highers. Matura was NOT borrowed from English directly. If I wanted to discuss maturity, I'd make the point that girls are deemed to mature quicker by 5 years in Iran. 9 for girls and 14 for boys. However, that's maturity and not a leaving exam (or set of subjects on which you are tested).
Did you see that noone wants to discuss about the topics I put?Affirmative action,dumbing down,standardized tests etc.It is everywhere the same.They refuse to discuss this they say ''I do not want to discuss this.''
My point, Seanus, was made that the title isn't correct and on an issue about dumbing down, I thought it was relevant even though the OP might not be a native English speaker.
Re: matura I took a cursory look at the matura exam, mathematics. In general, I like what I saw, but I do not judge the passing grade of 30%.
Basic Level. If this is designed for everyone, including future artsy professionals I say the level was adequate: a wide range of topics in 23 multiple choices problems (worth 1 point each ), and 10 open problems - worth 2-4 points each. The close problems were not dumb at all and required testing each of four possible options given. 50 points to earn, 170 minutes.
Extended level. 12 open problems, 50 points to earn, 180 minutes. I do not see much of difference between this level and the level of my own math exam, long time ago. Anyone passing this exam would be adequately prepared for engineering/mathematics/physics faculties.
Re: education level The never ending educational reforms are the worst enemy of the education itself, because each half baked "revolution" introduces a whole new needs, such as new books, teachers training, etc. Twenty years ago kids coming from Poland to Canada were often being praised for their math knowledge and - in some cases - even moved up by one grade or two. Not anymore. At that time Canadian educational system was going through a full cycle: streaming, de-streaming then streaming again. I just laughed seeing how familiar it all looked.
But things finally stabilized here. According to PISA 2009 assessment results, pisa.oecd.org, Canada is placed at the 10th position in mathematics with 527 points (Shanghai China, 1st, 600 points), while Poland - at the 25th position with 495 points. Yes, reforms are needed in Poland, but they should be done the way Finland did it - starting with decent salaries, improved social standing, significant retraining of teachers, recruitment of the best brains. The rest will follow.
With respect to the courses themselves - there should be no place for any convulsive actions of the past, where few ridiculous decisions have been taken, such as teaching kids at grade one the elements of topology, groups, or sets. Heck, most of the primary school teachers had no clue what it meant, but they had to teach it. I was told about 600 page mathematical textbooks at grade 11, impossible to assimilate in any given time. Such "revolutions" produced high school graduates with unspoiled "tabula rasa" brains, doing something like this:
sin(a)=0.5, hence a = 0.5/sin or better yet a = 0.5 * sin
Down-dumbing has been a feature of the US educational system under the rule of the PC dictatorship.
In Europe that is called "Bologna agreement" what makes of former good to very good university degrees anglo bs. I really don't understand why we are allowing that.
The only effect is that the whole quality of the system and the academic degrees are dropping.
No, I just want people to actually discuss the thread and stop trying to win arguments they have already lost.
Boletus has given many ideas here for the likes of Darek and Monia as they are currently based in Canada. Aphro was too, I believe.
Never underestimate the power of societal pressure here. Priority should be placed on what could help people the most in their later lives. 'Who is the smartest? Who is the best? Who holds the aces, the East or the West? This is the crap, our children are learning' (The Tide is Turning, Roger Waters, Radio KAOS, 1987). Show the significance of what you are teaching. I try to do this the best I can.
I would still say that most native speakers of US English will have no idea what is meant by 'maturity exam'. That a few schools might use it in the context of admission or transfer credits doesn't make it a well formed expression in US English (I make no claims about UK or even Canadian usage). For the uninitiated speakers of US English 'maturity exam' would sound more like a psychological test rather than a school leaving exam.
I've never heard any native speaker of any kind of Englih call it anything but Matura (often with a Polish 'r') in Poland.
No, I just want people to actually discuss the thread and stop trying to win arguments they have already lost.
I agree with you, but many go to any topic to "win", like a boxer in a fight. Idioten!
Never underestimate the power of societal pressure here. Priority should be placed on what could help people the most in their later lives. 'Who is the smartest? Who is the best? Who holds the aces, the East or the West?
I undertand completely. A kind of natural competition is ok, i had that also in school and later in university, but that so called competition now is more about some kind of status, the approach to it is completely wrong and hey why are we softening our system and make it compatibable with sth what is not fitting. Let the anglo do their 'job/sh1t' an we ours.
Show the significance of what you are teaching. I try to do this the best I can.
Furthermore the generations of professors who are teaching with passion is dying out.
The watering down of school, particularly in the humanities, is vastly concurrent with the gradual demise of education as a once growth field. Perhaps here too, the US sadly leads the way, since we are the most visible, if not therefore, the most powerful, market on the planet. Moreover it is incumbent on America to set an example, since our behaviour (respectively the lack thereof!) blindly influences so many throughout the world. The entertainment industry is of course largely to blame for this international fiasco. Where standards have become a joke and the message we send is "Anything, i.e. Everything goes!", what can we expect if the rest of the world apes our mentality and dilutes the sum of knowledge?
I am for fairness,open procedures and competition under equal terms with emphasis on intelligence and academic ability and not some obscure social Leistung.
Back on topic. I'm mostly not a big fan of testing at all. I suppose it has to be done sometimes, but the Polish educational establishment places far too much emphasis on high stakes exams (which encourage cheating) and a lot of time and effort is wasted teaching to the test and in engaging in the eternal proctor/student war of getting away with and detecting cheating.
There are better ways of measuring student knowledge and progress than big sit down tests...
he US sadly leads the way, since we are the most visible, if not therefore, the most powerful, market on the planet. Moreover it is incumbent on America to set an example, since our behaviour (respectively the lack thereof!) blindly influences so many throughout the world.
In my opinion the US system is good because it is based on standardization but is heavily manipulated.I mean they have overanalyzed it and taken measures to produce certain results.In my opinion they should allow a natural system of competition without putting their hand so much in.
Sorry to oppose you, but i think the us system is bs. At the end of the university you get Fachidioten, who have knowledge of their specific field but lack a wider basis. That's everywhere besides in the anglo world a handicap. Of course if you want to be prestigious it's ok.
I am for fairness,open procedures and competition under equal terms with emphasis on intelligence and academic ability and not some obscure social Leistung.
