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Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem


OP pgtx  
4 Jun 2011 /  #91
Does every young person make the same amount no matter what?

does every young person have to migrate?
PlasticPole  
4 Jun 2011 /  #92
I don't know. Depends on how much money they are making and if they want to live with their parents. Maybe some can make enough money there not to move away. If the family is rich and well connected, they could probably afford their own place and get a good paying job.
OP pgtx  
4 Jun 2011 /  #93
Depends on how much money they are making

i think it's sad... :(
Havok  
4 Jun 2011 /  #94
so you're saying that the only way to make a decent living for young Poles is to move abroad? :)

Yes pgtx, aren't you living in TX don't be hypocrite.

i think it's sad... :(

No it's not, girl, there are so many opportunities out there and life can be beautiful. You have to do something radical. If you want something to pay off you have to put everything you got in it. and there is no swimming back to shore after that.
ItsAllAboutME  
4 Jun 2011 /  #95
so you're saying that the only way to make a decent living for young Poles is to move abroad? :)

no!
sorry, Havok.
it's not where you live, it's what you do. if they're contemplating leaving to wipe the as*es of some old rich Germans, hell no. but if they can find a real, professional, well-paying job, why stay in misery?
OP pgtx  
4 Jun 2011 /  #96
Yes pgtx, aren't you living in TX don't be hypocrite.

you do not know my story and i ain't telling you :)

You have to do something radical with your life.

escaping from their own country isn't always a good choice... and it's hard on many levels...

it's not where you live, it's what you do.

ok, so what they should do? :)
Ashleys mind  
4 Jun 2011 /  #97
If you want something to pay off you have to put everything you got in it. and there is no swimming back to shore after that.

They need to make something happen, either individually or alone. I mean there is a reason why the EU has opened up to them. They need to make the most of it. But like those individuals who moved abroad before them, they have to be willing to do the hard yards before they see the fruits of their labour. You can't be scared *and* complacent. Make it happen!

They have to be clear about what they want, and the best way to get it. There are risks involved with everything, and that is that the results can go either way. But if you don't try you will miss any boat that was waiting for you.

Sad, yes. Avoidable, No.
ItsAllAboutME  
4 Jun 2011 /  #98
ok, so what they should do? :)

as I said before, I don't know what they're educated in or what they do, and why it's not working, but it obviously isn't, so they have to try something different. start a small business. find a niche market that they can make extra money on, if it takes off, quit their day jobs and invest more money in it. I gave you a few examples before.

or, if their own business is too scary, figure out how to make more money with their current skills, or learn new ones.
Havok  
4 Jun 2011 /  #99
escaping from their own country isn't always a good choice... and it's hard on many levels...

It can be if they really want to get ahead.

I apologize to you i can be such a mean bastard sometimes. Sorry I was brought up with wolves. and Polacks :)

Sad, yes. Avoidable, No.

Thank you Ashley.
asik  
4 Jun 2011 /  #100
so you're saying that the only way to make a decent living for young Poles is to move abroad? :)

does every young person have to migrate?

???

pgtx as a matter of fact ,they are in Europe and they are able to seek legal employment anywhere within UE not just in Poland, unless they decide to emigrate permanently to any choosen country.

Until then I would call it not an emigration but a temporary move & stay, connected with work, within secured ring of countries in Europe.

On the other hand, did you make this story ?
Noone with this low earning would even dream about living alone not to mention buying any housing .
For God's sake are they real? Who in their right mind would agree to such a low income, especially after graduating from University?
Why did they choose to waste their time and their young age with these scamy and underpaying companies?
They have to look for a decent and a real career job as soon as possible? I am sure they would be able to find something nice and with better wages even in Poland but in different cities.

Until then, they should not even think about moving out from their parent's house.
poland_  
4 Jun 2011 /  #101
ok, so what they should do? :)

Avoid following the other 2.1 million: A new report on debt reveals that over 2.1 million Poles have trouble with repaying loan on time, with total arrears amounting to 30.9 billion zloty (7.8 billion euro).
kasica  
8 Jun 2011 /  #102
pgtx: ok, so what they should do? :)

Living in Poland is not easy. Easy to give advices when you don't know how it looks like in reality.

My advice is to clench one's teeth and wait for oportunity or for better time :)
FUZZYWICKETS  
8 Jun 2011 /  #103
kasica wrote:

My advice is to clench one's teeth and wait for oportunity or for better time :)

OK.....so what kinds of opportunities should they look out for? How long should they wait for "a better time"?

asik wrote:

Who in their right mind would agree to such a low income, especially after graduating from University?

The university degree, as you should know, doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. It's a me too in Poland. I knew plenty of Poles in Wroclaw who had their 5 year degree, netting well under 2000 zl. a month. Take a walk over to the Renoma building in Wroclaw and ask all the recent college grads slaving at Hewlitt Packard what they're earning. When I was teaching them 2 years ago, it was around 1600 net for new hires and English was required. They used to always joke and say, "at least we get the HP sandwich" (HP used to have little sandwiches delivered every morning for them to eat).

Some people just take what they can get in order to start the paychecks rolling in and then find themselves stuck there. As for moving to another city to find work, that would mean they'd have to start paying rent which they obviously can't afford.

It sounds to me like they're the victims of bad planning.
al111  
8 Jun 2011 /  #104
Monthly salary - together 3,000 zlotych

I haven't read all your other posts. Considering that too many people in Poland still live in the way they were taught by comminism i am not surprised by this. I knew of a guy who was earning 1500zł net but still lived with his parents in a 38m2 flat he grew up in and sharing the only Bedroom with his sister. Him 31 and sister 29 no matter where you come from this kind of living does not help you to grow(it's very unhealthy) or to fend for yourself. Some parents are just too protective they just don't know when to totally wean their children and even insist that they should stay coz renting a flat is a waste of money. 3000zł mate for a couple that is normal if they live in a small town which i guess they do, rentals for 1bedroom flats rarely go above 1000zł. I have a student who is married and their total income is just above 3500zl he tells me but they live in a good apartment 42m2 and pay just above 1100zł including utilities they live in a 35000 population town.
ChrisPoland  
8 Jun 2011 /  #105
In 5 months our flat will be ours after a 10-year-mortgage that no bank wanted to give us. In the meantime, we also bought a house :) Someone here said that our financial situation can change over time for better or worse and that we should be prepared. So true.

About our mortgage -We were in our 20's -one foreigner and one Pole. We had no credit history but we both had quite good paying jobs. The banks were still a little edgy saying the we could escape to America with the money. Yes, because with 25,000 or 50,000 euros I will take over America ;) Anyhow, one bank, after examining the money coming in and going out of our account agreed to give us a loan. One important factor was the history of incoming/outgoing payments. Second was that even if one of us lost our job, the other's income was high enough to cover the loan. (I suspect this is the problem for our young couple) In the end, the bank offered us more money than we asked for but we declined. It was a good decision because a year later we were hit with a serious illness which hit us hard in the pocketbook.

Our financial situation improved and we were lucky enough to buy a house in the meantime. We still know that tomorrow anything can happen.

Young couple, save up and show the bank that you spend prudently. Go back in a year and try again. The bank may view you differently then and they may have a better offer for you.

Good luck

"leasing some car that with never be mine" - A leasing payment is a cost for those who operate their own business (mine is 1800 PLN a month) as well as petrol (about another 1000+). At the end of the agreement I have a buy-out payment of 600 PLN and I am the owner.
FUZZYWICKETS  
8 Jun 2011 /  #106
al111 wrote:

he tells me but they live in a good apartment 42m2.....

i'm sorry but i simply cannot undertand how a 42m2 apartment is "good".......unless your last apartment was 32m2.

just awful. i can't imagine raising children in that shoebox.
al111  
9 Jun 2011 /  #107
i'm sorry but i simply cannot undertand how a 42m2 apartment is "good

Well fuzzy you need to move around more if you live in Polska. Good simply means it's equipped with all the modern fittings and don't use coal for heating. There are many families who live in squalid conditions as for the small sizes like i mentioned i knew of a guy who grew up and still lived in a 38M2 flat together with his parents and sharing the only bedroom with his sister. This is quite common i have been to many places around the country and i have been told so. My first neighbour when i came to Polska lived in a 60m2 flat together with his wife their 3children (2boys and a girl), his old Dad (who apparently is the owner of the flat) and their dog.
FUZZYWICKETS  
9 Jun 2011 /  #108
al111 wrote:

Well fuzzy you need to move around more if you live in Polska. Good simply means it's equipped with all the modern fittings and don't use coal for heating. There are many families who live in squalid conditions as for the small sizes like i mentioned i knew of a guy who grew up and still lived in a 38M2 flat together with his parents and sharing the only bedroom with his sister.

i was just thinking outloud. it's just kinda sad, that's all.
Ant63  
9 Jun 2011 /  #109
From my understanding the Polish banks are about to dump 1000's of repossed houses onto the market. The Polish property market is about to nose dive. Wait and rent
delphiandomine  
9 Jun 2011 /  #110
And where did you read this? Mark Biernat's Guide to Property?

There wasn't 1000's of repossessed houses to begin with.

My first neighbour when i came to Polska lived in a 60m2 flat together with his wife their 3children (2boys and a girl), his old Dad (who apparently is the owner of the flat) and their dog.

It's worth pointing out that many, many of these people can perfectly well afford to move out - but they don't because it's much easier. I know at least two people who live under such arrangements, not because they can't afford to, but because they're planning to purchase a property outright.
Ant63  
9 Jun 2011 /  #111
And where did you read this? Mark's Guide to Property?

My information came from a Polish banker who said there were over 2000 in Poznan alone.
delphiandomine  
9 Jun 2011 /  #112
Did the banker just so happen to have a vested interest in property prices collapsing, perhaps?

I know the property market here - and there certainly isn't 2,000 houses just waiting to "go on the market". In fact, what was seen in Poland was that money simply wasn't lent unless the banks were certain of getting it back - so Poland avoided much of the problems seen elsewhere.
poland_  
9 Jun 2011 /  #113
i'm sorry but i simply cannot undertand how a 42m2 apartment is "good"...

There are people with house, who want to cash out their 200 m2 house and buy a small apartment, less overheads. Also there is a wave of

foreigners leaving PL, selling up and buying a small 50 m2 in a good location is a good way to keep the Polish wife happy.

From my understanding the Polish banks are about to dump 1000's of repossed houses onto the market. The Polish property market is about to nose dive. Wait and rent

PL is NOT the USA, you can't just hand back the keys to the bank and thank them for the mortgage, explaining now things are different and you are off. THe banks in PL are unrelentless, so the idea of 1,000's of homes coming on the market that will drive down real estate prices is somewhat unreal. Now a good point that both Avalon and SeanBM have raised in the past, if the government frees up more land for development and the road infrastructure/ train communications improve. We will see development move outside the cities on a larger scale.
FUZZYWICKETS  
9 Jun 2011 /  #114
warszawski wrote:

There are people with house, who want to cash out their 200 m2 house and buy a small apartment

i find it hard to believe that a couple with even 1 kid, let alone 2 or more could sell their 200m2 house and move into a 50m2 apartment. let me think.....i guess if they were somehow given grandma's house that is 100 years old and didn't want to live in the place so they just sold it and moved to the city to find work and live in something clean and newer....

but if you say so, man.
poland_  
9 Jun 2011 /  #115
i find it hard to believe that a couple with even 1 kid, let alone 2 or more could sell their 200m2 house

FuzzyW, I am NOT suggesting the above, most of the houses, that are in need of renovation are in the hands of the elderly, especially in the city. It makes no financial sense to be sitting on a property worth 1 mil PLN when you can't afford your living expenses, with prices being high, there are more people cashing out and buying small flats. Normally it is the 2+2 family that are buying and renovating to get further up the ladder.

I can only speak for Warsaw trends, as that is my city.
FUZZYWICKETS  
9 Jun 2011 /  #116
warszawski wrote:

It makes no financial sense to be sitting on a property worth 1 mil PLN when you can't afford your living expenses, with prices being high, there are more people cashing out and buying small flats.

I guess if they inherited the house, sure. Turn a profit, get a flat closer to work. Makes sense.

As for a 2+2 that can actually afford a 1 mil PLN house, I don't think they're going to downgrade to a 50m2 shoebox unless real financial tragedy occured.
poland_  
9 Jun 2011 /  #117
As for a 2+2 that can actually afford a 1 mil PLN house, I don't think they're going to downgrade to a 50m2 shoebox unless real financial tragedy occured.

As I have experience of buying houses in Warsaw, I will explain. Normally there are four types of seller here,

1. Elderly who wish to downsize
2. Foreigners moving on.
3.Two or three generations living in a house and they want to move on, so they want to get enough to buy three or four flats. ( theses are the worst types and should be avoided like the plague)

4. Small developers who want to flip.

Your 2+2 are the buyers.
FUZZYWICKETS  
9 Jun 2011 /  #118
warszawski wrote:

Small developers who want to flip.

makes sense.

why are the #3 sellers so bad?

curious.
poland_  
9 Jun 2011 /  #120
why are the #3 sellers so bad?curious.

It is quite simple when there is more than one decision maker, there is no decision. There is always one member of the group who is greedy.

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