WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION?

Seanus wrote:


insert any of the countless examples in Polish.

Oops, I meant strange, of course.

za free is the way young poeple talk whether you like it or not - it is a colloquialism just as Magdalena pointed out contrary to 'za darmo' or 'gratis' ('gratis is also the way to say for free in the Dutch language)

gumishu wrote:


which is why i can't understand the resistance on this thread when i say that poles use WAY too much english nowadays. it's nonstop, whether you like it or not.

Please make the effort to realise that 1) English is not the only foreign language used by Poles in informal speech, and 2) it does no harm to Polish - 90% of these borrowings will disappear on their own, as new generations come up with something even MORE outrageous ;-p

Magdalena wrote:


glad to see you're starting to admit it too.

can you give me examples of where other languages are used? It actually does harm to Polish- because what happens is that it becomes mainstream in Polish pop culture- we see it on tv and on the internet then people think that it is acceptable to distort the language.

I have a 12 year old who doesn't speak like this and she goes to an international school. However, I did learn something---my spelling will of course be way off- "sie ma enjio"---this is how it sounds. Playing with ones native language makes sense but adding new words from an existing language changes it.

Of course there are words like cafe latte, cappoccino- spaghetti that are necessary to keep the native but "extra dodatki za free" is just really stupid and a bad marketing ploy--especially when there are Polish words.

Polish 'ekstra' has a completely different meaning to the English 'extra'

for me it's an exclamation showing excitement or approval, which folks use less and less these days.

I have to support Magdalena on this. Whether we like it on on - it will pass. Polish has survived much greater onslaught than that: first Latin, and then various forms of macaronic intrusions.

"A niechaj narodowie wżdy postronni znają,

iż Polacy nie gęsi, iż swój język mają."

"Let it by all and sundry foreign nations be known

that Poles don't gabble — they have a language of their own."

Mikołaj Rej (1509-1569), the first Polish author to write exclusively in the Polish language, is saying that Poles need to break with the tradition, still current in the Renaissance, of writing in Latin—a language that reminds him of the gabbling of geese.

After Latin, came "makaronizmy" on a massive scale.


Example from "Pani Twardowska", Adam Mickiewicz. [He used it on purpose]

Twardowski ku drzwiom się kwapił
Na takie dictum acerbum,
Diabeł za kontusz ułapił:
"A gdzie jest nobile verbum?"

You should try "Pamiętniki" of Jan Chryzostom Pasek sometime. That's an eye opener!

It is indeed. In fact, it is the same what "masło maślane" is; "dodatek" is something that is "on top of", exactly the same what "extra" means. "Extra", or properly spelled, "ekstra", is used as a noun, and not as an adjective like in the above example of yours; one may thus say: dostaniesz także coś ekstra ode mnie.

"Ekstra" as an exclamation showing excitement or approval is just another meaning of this noun.

ok- so the coffee heaven outlets at shell have written "extra dodatki za free" I was there today and rolled my eyes at the sight of it. I hope it passes- I don't want my kids speaking so poorly.

just off the top of my head, in informal spoken Polish:

ciao
manana (for some reason, it has come to mean "total mess" in Polish) ;-)
si, si
komsi, komsa
żetem
monamur
silwuple
selawi

;-)

Three cheers for Ziemowit!

Laziness is the root of most Anglicisms, for more often than not, a perfectly acceptable equivalent in the source language can be found.

I must briefly qualify my former post. Not merely Anglicisms, but actual most FOREIGNISMS period are usually a poor excuse for a perfectly good native term. Germanisms and Francophilisms don't escape my wrath either--::) LOL

You still don't get it, do you?
Words of foreign origin carry additional meaning / information.

E.g. when I am really, really blue, I can say:

Jestem załamana

Mam chandrę (Russian word, connotations: birches in an autumn mist, drink of choice: neat vodka)

Jestem w depresji (Latin medical term, clinical / medical connotations)

Dorwał mnie spleen (rarely used nowadays, English word, connotations: London fog, drink of choice: tea)

ok ekstra has two meanings in Polish (in my Polish) - but in my Polish the adjectival meaning is the first one - maybe it's not what it was historically but it doesnn't matter - what matters is 'ekstra dodatki' just means 'fantastic/superb add-ons' - it may well be colloquialism but it's the way it is used and spoken


I would also add : pożywiom, uwidim; gniotsja nie łamiotsja; laska (a borrowing from the Czech language with a shifted meaning - it means 'love' in Czech);

A weird thing to say really, since it came into all those languages from English. It's been used in English since the Middle Ages, originally as a legal term. Oddly enough I knew that already.


Yes. There's boredom and there's ennui - a whole different thing. Weltschmerz is different again. And nothing else quite expresses elan, eclat, jejeune, schadenfeude, amok etc.

But the words which carry "additional" meanings frequently do so at their own expense. There's always a price we pay for sacrificing a word in another language for one in our own. All too frequently, such sacifice is made in vain!

Aha! Yes there is. At least in English, "schadenfreude" resp. "Schadenfreude" means 'malicious gloating'! True, in the original there's only one word for English two, but this is as good a native equivalent as one can get.

Sometimes, a non-native word has crept into a language soooooo long ago that it's no longer even recognized as 'foreign' any more. English is the worst example though, since practically the entire language is one big borrowing.

They appeal and try to get attention of the younger genaration. "Extra dodatki" is supposed here to mean "fajne dodatki" alongside the obviously redundant "dodatkowe dodatki" meaning. Both meanings mix together which shows that language shouldn't be explained from the puristic point of view only. "Za free" is replacing the older saying "za friko" (which I don't believe to be of English origin altogether).

All this sound more amusing than funny. It is just the jargon of young generations which might easily be replaced by something different which will be more "chic" or "en vogue" at the very next minute. If not, it will continue for some time, maybe for ever, but will always remain within the frames of colloquial, somewhat entertaining usage.

Whereas your attitude towards the purity of the Polish language is something I may admire very much, there is a neccessity to see things in their proportions. Native speakers of English do "feel" English terms in Polish in quite a different way than we, Polish people, tend to feel them. And maybe the last sentence of my preceding paragraph explains this difference in perception between the two. So let us leave this "disgusting" usage of English in Polish there where it belongs - to colloquial and slightly entertaining one which makes us, the native speakers of Polish, elicit a very subtle internal smile on seeing descriptions like "extra dodatki za free" at coffeeheaven outlets. For goodness sake, LIFE IS NOT SO (BLOODY?) SERIOUS!

But again, that's not the point. The point is, I can use any of these words including the native one, and so express exactly what I want to. And no, schadenfreude is NOT the same as malicious gloating - the fact that the word comes from German adds an extra layer of meaning, say what you might! ;-P

I agree, Magda! That extra layer exists because the English or whatever language borrowing, is never a carbon copy of the original.

Suffice to say, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Yes, elan, schadenfreude, gemuetlichkeit etc.... convey a singularity impossible to convey in translation, but these are the exceptions, not the rule!

That's what your English wikipedia says. :-)
Latin was in use in Poland since 10th century, long before any cultural contacts with England have been stablished. Why should Poles borrow anything from Middle English, having direct access to Latin? Latin was exclusively used as a written language in Poland until 16th century (see Mikołaj Rey).

There is a quote from Jesus Christ: Gratis accepistis, gratis date. - You got it for free then give it for free.

BTW, see Jan Brożek (Lat. Joannes Broscius) (1585-1652), Polish mathematician, astronomer, writer, a Polish Catholic priest, physician, musician, orator, rector of the Cracow Academy.

In 1625 he published one of the greatest of his works, "Gratis", constructed in the form of a satirical dialogue against the Jesuits, who were in conflict with the Academy of Cracow at that time. Gratis is made of four discourses. The first one is entitled:

"Gratis albo Discurs I Ziemianina z plebanem (Gratis, or Discourse Between the 1st Squire and the Vicar).

Furthermore, there is ruefully a certain snobbishness, i.e. upper-class eccentricity, connected with using foreign, particularly French, words in English: joie de vivre, sang froid, je ne c'est quoi, etc.. This though is on occasion an aesthetic addition to a language. Probably though, it's simply that; being snobbish!

Yeah, for some reason Brits think it's embarrassing to show that they have studied a language or are erudite in any area.

True indeed, except for the 'Brief Encounter' generation post-War, who still used the Received Pronunciation and, unlike the present generation of Russell Crowe or the late Amy Winehouse, tried at least to sound literate-:)

Indeed, in the part of the memoirs in which Pasek is defending himself before the Sejm, with the king listening in, he is constantly lapsing into Latin and alluding to biblical and classical stories in such an arbitrary manner that, after several pages, the English translator informs the reader that although this bizarre speech goes on much longer, she is neglecting to translate it any further, and thus sparing the reader, and herself, further exasperation. Quite a feat for old Jan to be so intensely baroque that even a scholar of the baroque couldn't take it anymore.


"Malicious gloating" fails to express the meaning of "Schadenfreude" which is literally "shameful happiness". It is a feeling of mirth that one feels guilty about having.

I wouldn't know - never use it ;-)


Interesting, however we don't know very much about 10th Century Poland and the way they spoke can only be guessed at. Also, we aren't discussing how Latin words are or were used in Latin; we are discussing how they might be used in Polish. We know the first written sources containing the word gratis and how its spread can be provably traced across Europe. We also know that it existed in written Middle English.


As far as we know, He spoke neither Latin nor Polish.


Exactly - otherwise people would just say 'malicious gloating' Schadenfreude is quite different. There's also the euphemistic use of loan words. Menage a trois and partouse sound better than any of the alternatives. I just wish the Poles wouldn't say sponsoring when they mean a discreet form of prostitution.

Explains the odd looks when I talk about sponsoring a small boy in Northern Thailand.......

I remember a slogan shouted by Greek fans during the Euro 2004 match between Greece and CR in the semi finals.They were singing to the Czechs:

Bring the beers and we bring the ouzo
and bring the czech women to do a partouse

Classic! Wouldn't work in any other language ;-)