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WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION?


Lyzko  
25 Oct 2011 /  #331
What else is "malicious gloating" other than "shameful (actually "harmful", to be literally exact in German!) happiness"?? I'm a translator so I've often got to second guess meaning in order to arrive at some sort of textual veracity.

Think we're splitting hairs, frankly-:)
gumishu  16 | 6181  
25 Oct 2011 /  #332
I always thought Schadenfreude means that one is happy of someone else's misfortune (judging from German meanings of both parts of the word)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
Lyzko  
25 Oct 2011 /  #333
..which is precisely in English what "gloating" means (...practically always "malicious", by the way!)-:)

You brag about your great new house and your terrific salary. Suddenly, you're hit by a car and wind up in the hospital. Most of your terrific salary goes into paying your medical bills. The day before though, you stuck out your tongue at your "poorer" subordinates and today they're better off than you. They see you now, no longer so high and mighty. They smirk and snicker as you hobble along the streets, laughing at your hybris right to your face.

THAT'S Schadenfreude!!!! Or, as the Germans would say: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude! = Gloating is the sweetest revenge! Perhaps too "He who laughs last, laughts best!"
boletus  30 | 1356  
26 Oct 2011 /  #334
Interesting, however we don't know very much about 10th Century Poland

Oh yes, we know enough. We know that Latin came to Poland via Bohemia, with St. Adalbert, his monks and baptism of Poland in 966. Written annals began to be generated in the late 10th century; first Polish Christian rulers were considered literate and educated. The secular annals later served as a basis for chronicles, such as Chronicle by Gallus Anonymus (around 1112-1116) or Polish Chronicles by Wincenty Kadłubek (ca 1202).

Here is a nice and short introduction to literary background during Middle Ages in Poland. The author, professor Mikos is also a renown translator from Latin and Polish and an author of several anthologies of Polish literature (in English), including "Medieval Literature of Poland".

staropolska.pl/ang/middleages/Mikos_middle/Literary_m.html
Below is a short excerpt from Chronicles of Gallus Anonymus, a part of that anthology. In this verse Poles are overjoyed after gaining access to Pomerania and Baltic Sea.

Agitabant patres nostri cervos, apros, capreas,
Hii venantur monstra maris et opes aequoreas.

Nasi ojce na jelenie urządzali polowanie,
A my skarby i potwory łowim, skryte w oceanie.

Our fathers hunted for deer,
But we hunt for treasures and monsters, hidden in the ocean.

and the way they spoke can only be guessed at.

How is it relevant? But I know enough about four schools of Latin pronunciation, including the funny English way. :-)

As far as we know, He spoke neither Latin nor Polish.

:-) But any monk worth his own black cassock had to know the Latin phrase "Gratis accepistis, gratis date" by heart. And from there, there is just one step to vernacular Polish. Same as with other Latin phrases, like "Deo Gracias". In Catholic Poland "Niech będzie pochwalony (Jezus Chrystus)" and "Na wieki wieków. Amen" were more popular for ages than the secular "Dzieńdobry", especially at the countrysite. "Szczęść Boże" and "Bóg zapłać" are also direct translations of Latin phrases.

I checked several Polish dictionaries, and one German source, and none ever mentions English parentage in the etymology chain of the word "gratis" either in Polish or in German. They all refer directly to the Latin original word "gratiis".

So sorry, your hypothesis here is quite weak. England simply was not in a center of Poland's cultural interests during medieval times. Italy was, France was, Germany had to be, as a close neighbour. But we just traded with you in Polish grain, timber and other produce.

I followed the Jan Brożek "Gratis" document, which I previously described, and I found it interesting enough to quote a passage from an article devoted to him. As you can see, people were flogged, "Gratis" was burnt at stake. So I rest my case here. :-)

In 1625, an unsigned pamphlet was printed and distributed in Kraków. It opened with the word Gratis. The pamphlet deals with the allegedly free (gratis) education offered by the Jesuits. The author argues that the claim of a free education is false. The author was, as it turned out, Brożek, and the pamphlet was his contribution in the struggle agains Jesuits. However, this episode ended badly. The city guards raided the printer's shop, the owner was arrested, flogged at the pillory and banned from Kraków. Gratis was burned at the pillory but Brożek was spared because the Academy defended him firmly.

gallusanonymus.fr/resources/BrozekPIASA_fin.pdf
JonnyM  11 | 2607  
26 Oct 2011 /  #335
Oh yes, we know enough

It would be great if that were true, but it isn't. We know scraps only.

How is it relevant? But I know enough about four schools of Latin pronunciation

We're talking about loanwords in the Polish language.Linguists can only hypothesise about the way the predecessor of Polish sounded at that time.

So sorry, your hypothesis here is quite weak.

But accurate. Unless you can find a record of the word having passed from Latin to a modern European language earlier. There's no reason to assume it passed directly from English to Polish without being adopted in other languages on the way!
Psyfy  
19 Dec 2011 /  #336
I had a bit of a giggle when a Polish guy visiting Australia last year tried to order Coleslaw at the rather 'Wiocha' Coles Deli. He knew that the 'C' was was not pronounced as 'TS' so he put it all together in Pinglish and ended up asking for 'Kol-ee-swauve'. The old Aussie chick behind the counter couldn't understand what he wanted so called her husband out and he couldn't work it out either. Eventually the Polak pointed to it behind the glass and got what he wanted. :)
FUZZYWICKETS  8 | 1878  
3 Jan 2012 /  #337
Just streamed some Polish TV, there were 4-5 people talking, and the title at the bottom of the screen was, "Downshifting - Chce wolniej zyc"

and THEN, in conversation, a guy said, ".....downshiftowalem......".

and of course, shortly after, "......duzo deadline'ow....."

worse and worse, folks.
rybnik  18 | 1444  
3 Jan 2012 /  #338
worse and worse, folks.

I know. I know. It's crazy!

Omg! I'm watching "Chichot Losu" and this guy curses in English! He says sh*t! btw the chick is hot!!!
FUZZYWICKETS  8 | 1878  
3 Jan 2012 /  #339
this guy curses in English! He says sh*t

I'm gonna curse in Polish all day at work tomorrow. It's the same thing, right?
sarahk  - | 18  
3 Jan 2012 /  #340
: a) When I try to speak Polish, people (especially the younger ones) simply reply to me in English.

There's a simple solution to that -- just tell them in Polish that you'd prefer them to speak Polish so you can practice. It's easy to be polite about it.

There's nothing wrong with using English in Polish. Most countries use English words, and words borrowed from other languages as well.

For example, Polish also uses the word "spacerować" from the German "spazieren" and means "to go for a walk". Germans and Austrians use so many French words, such as "Portemonnaie" for "wallet". It's a sign of globalization.
FUZZYWICKETS  8 | 1878  
3 Jan 2012 /  #341
"downshiftowalem" is a sign of madness.
Magdalena  3 | 1827  
3 Jan 2012 /  #342
Downshifting is a relatively new word even in English. It's concise, and describes a new social phenomenon.
The only dictionary translation I found into Polish is "zmienić pracę na mniej stresującą i mniej płatną". Quite a mouthful.

I guess, as the phenomenon grows (if it does), more Polish people will start using it and will soon get fed up with its ungainliness. It's not the easiest to inflect or pronounce. That's when someone will come up with a Polish equivalent.

So keep your hair on. ;-)
JonnyM  11 | 2607  
3 Jan 2012 /  #343
"downshiftowalem" is a sign of madness.

Wow!

Downshifting is a relatively new word even in English. It's concise, and describes a new social phenomenon.
The only dictionary translation I found into Polish is "zmienić pracę na mniej stresującą i mniej płatną". Quite a mouthful.

It shows how quickly words can spread.

I'm just waiting for 'Ciapaki' to reach Poland...
FUZZYWICKETS  8 | 1878  
3 Jan 2012 /  #344
That's when someone will come up with a Polish equivalent.

still waiting for them to come up with an equivalent for "znokautowac" and "boarding", just to name a few.

Downshifting is a relatively new word even in English. It's concise, and describes a new social phenomenon.

a new social phenomenon? i don't get it.

In American English, to downshift is used to describe shifting gears in a mechanical device like a car, motorcycle, bicycle, etc., and it has been used for as long as I can remember.

I have never heard an American or any native speaker of English say, "Geeze, I really need to downshift, I'm going to exhaust myself this week." Of the native UK/Australia/New Zealand English speakers out there, have you ever heard "downshifting" being used in this way?
JonnyM  11 | 2607  
3 Jan 2012 /  #345
It means selling your hows in London and buying a cheaper one in the countryside. Generally spending less and living more modestly. Usually used by people whose income has plummeted but they have assets.
m1ke  - | 12  
3 Jan 2012 /  #346
Germans and Austrians use so many French words, such as "Portemonnaie" for "wallet".

We use this word in Polish too

I'm just waiting for 'Ciapaki' to reach Poland...

This actually is a Polish word
Magdalena  3 | 1827  
3 Jan 2012 /  #347
In American English, to downshift is used to describe shifting gears in a mechanical device like a car, motorcycle, bicycle, etc., and it has been used for as long as I can remember.

That would be "wrzucić niższy bieg" in Polish. But we are discussing this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downshifting
JonnyM  11 | 2607  
3 Jan 2012 /  #348
This actually is a Polish word

Yes, but a very new one coined by the wave of Polish people who moved to London since 2004. Perhaps I should have spelt it 'Czapaki'. Can you guess the meaning?
Magdalena  3 | 1827  
3 Jan 2012 /  #349
Perhaps I should have spelt it 'Czapaki'.

No, you definitely shouldn't have.

;-p
FUZZYWICKETS  8 | 1878  
3 Jan 2012 /  #350
But we are discussing this:

and I've never heard it being used that way, hence, why I'm asking native speakers of English on here if they have any experience with this particular usage.
sarahk  - | 18  
3 Jan 2012 /  #351
We use this word in Polish too

Exactly, it's not just English words that are being used and it's due to close proximity to other languages and open borders. I always think they're funny :)

and I've never heard it being used that way, hence, why I'm asking native speakers of English on here if they have any experience with this particular usage.

See what JonnyM wrote. I've seen/heard it used like that also.
mafketis  38 | 10854  
3 Jan 2012 /  #352
I'm just waiting for 'Ciapaki' to reach Poland...

I've already heard it (in Poznan) but from someone who was working in Warsaw.

Except the version I heard was ciapaty (adjective in form though treated as a noun phrase), plural ciapaci.

Some very quick googling seems to indicate that ciapaki (singular ciapak) is more insulting.

It means (South) Asian.
Polonius3  980 | 12275  
2 Apr 2015 /  #353
Merged: UK/Eire Polglish?

Can anyone provide some insight into the "half-na-pół" language that has emerged in the UK and Ireland since the major Polish migration began over a decade ago. I am most familiar with the American version, stuff like "bojsy się fajtują na sajdłoku", "oni heńgują na kornerze przy groserni", "po robocie nasza ticzerka klinuje flory w ofisie" and "łaciuj jak będziesz krosował strytę, żeby jakiś trok cię nie hytnął". Is it the same in the British Isles Polonia or has a separate Isles-specific émigré jargon emerged?
Lyzko  41 | 9541  
2 Apr 2015 /  #354
Poles, like many non-Anglophones, believe English simply sounds "cool" (...even if a vast number can't even understand a bloody word of it!!)

Others will liberally pepper their conversation with American/British vulgarisms in an effort to fit in with a cool crowd. In this respect, the Dutch are the worst offenders:-)))
Crow  154 | 9195  
2 Apr 2015 /  #355
Not only Poles. All Slavs doing that. Its complex of inferiority
Levi_BR  6 | 219  
2 Apr 2015 /  #356
Depends.

Call Bacon as Bacon is not a complex of inferiority.

When i ask for Pierogi outside Poland, i don't say "Give me some boiled polish dumplings" , i just say "Pierogi".
Crow  154 | 9195  
2 Apr 2015 /  #357
For me Bacon is slanina. But, i say Bacon sometimes. i admit. i am weakling sometimes
Lyzko  41 | 9541  
2 Apr 2015 /  #358
Just the opposite happened to me at a (supposed) Polish eatery. I asked for "wędlina", to which the Polish-American waitress replied snappishly, "D'ya mean "smoked sausage"??! So why didn'tcha say so?"

LOL
Polonius3  980 | 12275  
2 Apr 2015 /  #359
What about English verbs to which the -ować ending is stuck on?
I'n the USA one hears łaciować television, klinować flory, pejntować stepsy, fiksować karę (mend the car), etc. Do similar things occur in the Isles?
Wulkan  - | 3136  
2 Apr 2015 /  #360
Do similar things occur in the Isles?

Nope, your examples are very extreme.

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