WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION?

Lunch is something different to obiad, you can have lunch and still have obiad at home after work - so no it's not an unnecessary borrowing

Meeting - you need two polish words like 'spotkanie załogi' 'spotkanie pracowników' - meeting is not a generic word like in English it has a very specific meaning when used in Polish

btw there is a word mityng in Polish too, which also comes from English meeting - it means more or less rally in English 'mityng wyborczy' - it was introduced to Polish already before the II WW

fast food - does not have an equally handy and equally specific term in Polish - szybka żywność - very awkward, szybkie żarcie - good but too colloquial (English term is not slang), szybkie jedzenie? - too ambiguous (jedzenie can be both eating and food)

as for geographic names - those names that are polonized are declined - Nowy Jork, w Nowym Jorku, do Nowego Jorku, w Londynie, do Londynu

some names that don't look polonised are still declined - Montreal, w Montrealu, Halifax, w Halifaxie (though w Halifax is also correct), Quebec, w Quebecu (though if we talk about the city of Quebec I would rather say w Quebec), Lyon - w Lyonie, Zurych (somewhat polonized) w Zurychu), Manitoba, do Manitoby, Saskatchewan either w Saskatchewan or w Saskatchewanie, Alberta, do Alberty, w Albercie, Labrador, na Labradorze (it's na because it's a peninsula), na Labrador), Ottawa, w Ottawie, do Ottawy

It's natural when you are learning English to mix and experiment. It's all good provided that they don't speak to old people that way as many will frown ;)

Self deprecating "tania jadka", a cheap eatery. This is what it actually is. "jadka" - derived from the verb "jadać".

Do not mistake it for "tania jatka", historically - an inexpensive corner butchery at some form of a farmer's market.

English therefore is used when you want to sound "cool", and Polish, that is, your native tongue, when you want to sound serious, ordinary, respectable, above all natural (NOT common or vulgar)-:)

This seems to be the concensus on this Forum.

No it doesn't sound "cool" at all. It's the misconception of elders which assumes that young people like to use English words, which is, besides a short list of a few words, untrue. The elders thinks they will be seen "cool" in the eyes of young people if they use English words, while in fact they are ridiculouos (like in the example provided by me in the post 272).

Notice also that a word "cool" is obselete (it was popular in mid 90s). Now is used only when imitating someone "uncool". In short "cool" is "uncool".

Hmmm, your knowledge of our language for a foreigner is excellent. Impressive that you should pick up such a subtlety, probably overlooked by the majority of English native speakers her at PF or elsewhere!!

As far as English NOT sounding "cool", I'm sure glad to hear one of you admit to it-:) I couldn't agree more; it usually sounds both fatuous as well as plain low level.

LOL

Lyzko wrote:


really? at least this part is completely inaccurate:

A.K. wrote:


In the USA, "cool" is used on a daily basis within the native speaking realm.

cool is not cool in Poland, capisci or with difficulties?

"Cool" is though still used in Germany, much as in the States. "Mann, das is' ja cool!" And this sentence means the same as "Man, that's really cool!" In Poland, I've heard only "Super!"

not at all like the Polish spoken by the workers building houses in my neighbourhood.

...the difference there being, of course, that those workers are native Poles! A native can muck up his or her language to their heart's content. Presumably, they know the difference. Otherwise then, they're plain ignorant. A foreigner however, ought to be more mindful of register when speaking a language not their own. It's rather like a visitor entering a stranger's house; the visitor remains a guest in that house, and ought scarcely take liberties with the furniture (not to mention, the occupant(s)). They'll NEVER have the same rights as the owner since they're merely squatters, so to speak!

-:)

Personally, I think it sounds low class when I hear Poles using English words in their speech. meeting and lunch, sandwich- whatever -we have a large list. And the funny thing is that those who use English the most- don't even speak it very well- but just like to add an English word or two so that they sound cool. Those who are bilingual, in my experience, keep their languages separate and don't mix the slang.

Somebody posted a link on here of that American/Polish model Joanna Krupa when she hosted Poland's next top model. Her language was horrid and disgusting- but TVN let her talk like that because it is good for ratings. She butchered the language and of course when people see this on tv they think it is acceptable and it isn't.

Krupa is a bit like that French cook, Paskal. He is half Polish and makes mistakes on purpose. Krupa does get muddled up, right enough.

I told a Polish guy to say zwiastun and not trailer. Either you use one or the other.

I too bemoan the same in German, Pip!

Usually, it's all done out of sheer laziness. Rather than use a native word which says the same or even better than the English word, Europeans try far too much to keep up with Hollywood, American Idol and the rest of that trash!

Popular culture has become a blight on our culture. Where once upon a ( more halcyon) time, there was low-brow, middle-brow and high-brow culture, these days, it's only the low-brow variety and it's doing permanent damage to the future of our society, like a cancer eating away at the foundations of our youth.

Lyzko wrote:


that should be a useful post for you Magdalena, some "proof" that you've been looking so desperately for.

Useful how? What sort of proof does it contain? I just wanna see all those new English words being introduced into Polish, is all. Sensible borrowings excluded, that is.


It's my language and I can use both if I wish ;-p

No, jak chcesz :) Sorry, if you wish :)

Languages is evolution and I welcome communication. Out with the puritans. I dislike when some old hags here gape at me when I speak English with my Polish friends (who want me to use it). I just start speaking Polish for a bit and then they hop it. Ah, the presumptions.

the only word I can think of that sort of infested Polish is 'sorry' ('sory') - but AFAIK it's the same in the Czech language - the thing is 'sorry' is different level of psychological/social commitment than 'przepraszam' - and well it is already very much established - I use it without reservations actually and so do younger generations

I only use: Sorki and ups.

perhaps this is an suitable example. Coffee heaven in the Shell gas station has a sign reading "dodatki do kawy za free." stupid.

well, they do save on the ink

On the surface, yes, stupid. But is it any more stupid than gratis?

JohnnyM wrote:


yes.

Why? Both are from English.

I don't know the origins of this word but we have also 'za friko' which much predated 'za free' (it was in use when I was a kid and I guess was already in use a decade before but as I said I don't know its origins) - one can think 'za free' - is in a sense an evolution of 'za friko'

JohnnyM wrote:


never in my life had i ever heard of "gratis" until i came to poland. it's worse.

In your zeal of weeding the Polish language you may have missed the point that this word came from Latin many generations before you were born. And it exists in many other languages: Catalan, Danish, German, Afrikaans, Italian, Norwegian, Romanian, Spanish, Swedish... and yes, English.

Buzzzzzz!

I know gratis from French- we don't use it in English.
za free is stupid and it tries to hard to please the customer- it is part of the foreign branding like coffee heaven(although not Polish owned now), royal collection, ginno rossi, reserved, quazi, and all the other Polish owned companies that are trying to portray a certain image

"za free" is one of the very few examples in this thread that I do agree is totally stupid. For two reasons - it's awkward; and, awkwardness aside, it's much too informal, almost as informal as "za friko" (I am sure the "friko" mentioned earlier comes from "free" as well).

Ridiculous! Polish has a perfectly good expression in 'za darmo' or even the more European 'gratis'. No need for a strane expression like 'za friko'