Is Poland a poor country?

@Jon: "upper middle income" when officially 70% of people make less than ... 2,700 ZL and some 10% make 6,500 ZL (= minimum in western Europe?). Even in Warsaw, a lot of people make some 2,000/2,500. Based upon my experience in living in Poland, I would say upper middle income in Poland is well over 10,000 ZL (netto) and what's the % of Poles making that sort of money? 1 or 2% max.

No, most Poles are vey poor by European, North American, Australian, Japanase standards.

"Banning stuff so rarely seems to work - giving an alternative and above all giving hope seems to be the best way"

You are right if they ban it the kids will try it.

"National service helped "

Brilliant , just think if they introduced this in Poland or some other EU countries, the youth would be hiding in the bushes, would be entertaining but not sure if it would work.

There again some kids may for the first time get a positive role model and structure in their lives.

They already have it in several.


Officially is the magic word. Do you really think that the average person responsible for planning documents in a small town in Poland is only earning that in reality?

Yes, Poland is a poor country!

Yeah. We eat what we can find on the floor of forests. After we are fed we drink vodka and wrestle polar bears.

Believe me, that is how some westerners still think Polish life is about and that is how most of them viewed Poland, and these are just the positive aspects, there were the negatives of course. So it is risky to respond to this thread question by simplifying it the way I did, for many westerners are all too happy to label Poland a beggar country, that's how malicious the westerners are, they get orgasm from it. However, I am too tired to keep explaining everything to them on this forum.

Drinking Vodka is a symptom not a cause of poverty. Living off a small piece of land or in the countryside isn't going to make you rich.

Don't blame the victims, Poland needs the infrastructure to build industry to provide jobs. A man living two hours away from where the jobs are is doomed and businesses are not going to relocate where the infrastructure is bad.

This is why the EU is spending a trillion zloty on infrastructure

" Living off a small piece of land or in the countryside isn't going to make you rich" True, but many do it and are quite happy, better than being in a slum estate in Bradford.

EU is not spending money on infrastructure to help Polish people. Firstly, EU is lending money which Poland has to pay back with interest, secondly, EU is mostly focused on bulding roads so that western European trucks can drive smoothly bringing in products from its companies so that foreign, not Polish, companies can get rich, thirdly, Polish were never doomed before, so why now?

Life in larger cities has moved forward hugely, its almost incomparable to 30 years ago. Nearly 50 billion invested in infrastructure has made the likes of Wrcolaw Poznan and others look no different to other european cities. However, the small towns and villages, in many cases, are worse than the 60's. And alcohol and cheap dangerous drugs are a real problem in places like that. But its also the mentality of some the people. I can give an example of a father that arranged a good job, a flat and a car for his son in Wroclaw, but the son ran away back to a slum village with 50% unemployed. He felt better hanging around with his mates on his housing estate.

Here re educate yourself. Over 100bn 2014-2010

msp.gov.pl/en/polish-economy/economic-news/4015,dok.html

An extract below underlining need to spend wisely:

Economists call for long-term vision in EU funds spending, underscore the need to invest in innovation

Obviously, economists point out, getting the EU money is one thing and spending them in a sensible way is another. PISM chairman director Marcin Zaborowski, alongside many others commentators, underscores the need to use the EU money to support innovativeness. "In the new [financial] perspective, a greater emphasis should be put on innovativeness. The government should pay much attention to this matter. Poland spends little on research. It is an aspect that does not have much support of entrepreneurs, and so the state should provide incentives," he argues.

That's point blank wrong. The EU doesn't lend money , it's grants it. It's a gift.


Having done that, I agree. Happiness is not wealth is it.


Indeed.
Infrastructure aside, the EU is supporting even small businesses with grants. For exampleMy sister in law is waiting for a 100k pln from the EU to expand her markets. It's a long complex process (for good reason).

Other grants are for a cesspit and solar power installations.

It's the Euro that does loans (rather than transfers) guaranteeing its status as natural disaster for non-Franco-Germanish countries.

Wrong. Drinking Vodka is rooted in Polish culture and tradition whether you like it or not. It's exactly the same thing as drinking wine in France. It's not a cause nor a symptom of poverty.

Yes, a kind of desperation; get drunk quickly and cheaply. One reason that more affluent people in Poland a increasingly drinking something better.


And the benefits from that are slowly starting to appear. Though it will take a lot of time for life in one-horse towns with poor road links and comically bad rail links to really change.

A couple of years ago the local authority said they were going to lay asphalt over the cobbled surface in our village. At a meeting in the village hall the official said that as there was only 650,000PLN to play with we had to vote on which half of the village was to be resurfaced! I thought that we would never see the other half laid, but it was recently announed that they'd found over 6m to continue the work, and starting from June this year the surface will be laid in the other half of the village, including pavements and entrances, as well as carrying on to another village up the road. Our place is most definitely a one-horse place (literally, in fact), but things are really happening around here.

Please tell me you're joking.

Right. Like what? Moving from Pan Tadeusz to Grants? Or moving from Luksusowa to Russian Standard? This brings me to another phenomena. In UK Russian Standard is very popular even when RS is a p**s in comparison with Polish vodka. Brits have no taste.

Yep, I notice that too. I don't have much time for the pretentious clowns drinking Johnnie Walker, but plenty of others are discovering good wine and good whisky. I've also noticed that people are becoming much fussier about what vodka they drink.

No, Harry,. Why?

This isn't the symptom of poverty. Poles are free to import alcohol from abroad for few decades and to travel for one. That's why they try imported stuff just to try and see that Grants and Teacher's are really crap and nothing better than cheapest Polish vodka. Proper Polish vodka is the best in the world.

The craft beer revolution is putting Poland on the map. I was just now talking to a group of Danes who have come to Warsaw specifically to try the beer here.


That's exactly how not to make a road that lasts more than two winters.


As if you've ever had good Polish vodka.

Polish vodka for 22890 PLN or around 7500$ a bottle. Obvious symptom of poverty.

mikkeharry.wordpress.com/2014/12/24/belver-bears-belvedere-polska-wodka-za-22-890-zl/
Harry. I'll take Zubrówka or Żołądkowa any time over even 16 yo Glennfiddich

Of course it's crap because it is crap. Anyone drinking that stuff might as well just drink Tesco whisky. Try Jura for a start.


Not really. Of course, there are brands that are among the best in the world - but Polish vodka is nothing special by itself.

It's just your opinion.

Stick to the topic please

Not so much the larger cities but in small towns drinking seems to be the national pastime. Its like they got to 18 years old and stayed there. And many seem to be happy to try to drink their problems away. So many broken families because of it. It takes someone from other way of life to notice it as its all very normal to the majority of them.

@Mocy: why are you comparing apples and bananas? Why are you talking about what you know nothing about? Believe me, the way Poles drink wodka is similar to the way they drink in countries like Russia but I believe that Russians drink more ;). What is the comparison with wine in France? Am I wrong if I say you have never lived there? Wine is drunk in France ONLY in areas where it is produced, otherwise it is only for special occasions WHERAS in Poland wodka is drunk in the whole country and on a regular basis by many..... Stop showing your ignorance! ;)

Still it's not a symbol of poverty and my reply was to a post suggesting that.

My mistake to use 'symptom'.

Maybe I should have said 'alcoholicism can be one of the effects of poverty'


It's interesting to compare a small town to a village. My local council is fully up to speed with getting EU grants. Teaching the locals how to get solar power grants,upgrading the schools and other public facilities.

The village gets nothing.

Well if it was a rich country we would not have over 800,000 (in reality probably over 2 million) Polish people in the UK working. To be honest, it is embarrassingly poor for an EU country.

Funny you should say that, but I'm afraid this is no place for trolls.