JohnP
14 Sep 2007
JohnP
16 Nov 2007
USA, Canada / What do Polish people think of the USA [287]
Interesting but the last bit is not quite right, although it is popular in U.S. media circles (outside affected areas especially). It is easy to say there is no immigration problem when it is happening somewhere else and shutting down someone elses' hospitals. I just moved from San Diego, and anyone there can drive down to Chula Vista and see the Kaiser-Permanente hospital...that is now just a building. It went out of business, for having to treat illegals for free non-stop in the emergency room. Also talk to workers trying to find a job who do NOT have college degrees (not all of us are well-to-do out of high school or have football skills or straight "A's"). See how competitive they feel, when employers in the area, construction, for instance, turn them away for illegals who do the same work at a fraction of the cost, and no liability ("What worker? There is no worker..."). Americans in these areas are not lazy, the work was done by citizens before illegals ever did it, but the constant desire to make things cheaper or have higher profit margins have driven the American worker out into the cold in many cases. Of COURSE engineers and doctors are not clamoring to work in the fields or in construction. But the people who ARE looking for these jobs....have trouble because their competition will work for less than the TAXES the employer would have to pay for a legal citizen....
Sorry. Rant concluded. I basically agree with the rest of your post however!
Still not sure what Polish people think of the USA...I've seen mostly Americans obviously upset by the last elections and willing to compare their country (no doubt with wild eyes, and mouth gasping-believing every story they hear) to the worst days of Nazi Germany just to drag the current administration through the mud...as well as British people living here and in Poland, and people of Polish decent (like myself, although I am an American)....but not too many Polish.....
I really am curious, how do Poles really see us over here?
Interesting but the last bit is not quite right, although it is popular in U.S. media circles (outside affected areas especially). It is easy to say there is no immigration problem when it is happening somewhere else and shutting down someone elses' hospitals. I just moved from San Diego, and anyone there can drive down to Chula Vista and see the Kaiser-Permanente hospital...that is now just a building. It went out of business, for having to treat illegals for free non-stop in the emergency room. Also talk to workers trying to find a job who do NOT have college degrees (not all of us are well-to-do out of high school or have football skills or straight "A's"). See how competitive they feel, when employers in the area, construction, for instance, turn them away for illegals who do the same work at a fraction of the cost, and no liability ("What worker? There is no worker..."). Americans in these areas are not lazy, the work was done by citizens before illegals ever did it, but the constant desire to make things cheaper or have higher profit margins have driven the American worker out into the cold in many cases. Of COURSE engineers and doctors are not clamoring to work in the fields or in construction. But the people who ARE looking for these jobs....have trouble because their competition will work for less than the TAXES the employer would have to pay for a legal citizen....
Sorry. Rant concluded. I basically agree with the rest of your post however!
Still not sure what Polish people think of the USA...I've seen mostly Americans obviously upset by the last elections and willing to compare their country (no doubt with wild eyes, and mouth gasping-believing every story they hear) to the worst days of Nazi Germany just to drag the current administration through the mud...as well as British people living here and in Poland, and people of Polish decent (like myself, although I am an American)....but not too many Polish.....
I really am curious, how do Poles really see us over here?
JohnP
26 Nov 2007
Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]
It's just a hunch really, as the jokes started long before I was born, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the jokes were invented by mill workers to make fun of other mill workers, let alone children on the playgrounds at school...I and I'm sure many others on here have been the brunt of either "Dumb Polak" jokes or some similar on many occasions. It has nothing to do with you being Polish, or of Polish decent, nor does it have anything to do with quite a few things. I think people simply pick a target, and invent something that will upset that person-creating great fun for the other coworkers, at his/her expense. In school I was one of 3 people in the county with a Polish name-so I've heard ALL the jokes. After joining the Navy I got the "dumb redneck" jokes because I grew up in a rural area in the Southern U.S.....it isn't just Polish people who get teased. A teacher at one of my schools had to send her son a picture of their house, because his coworkers (he was a nuclear power engineer) thought he no doubt lived in a tar-paper shack or perhaps a run-down trailer.
Some people hate Polish people I'm sure, but I think it more likely started as one specific worker or student trying to upset another specific worker or student, for a laugh.
Which is why all the "Polak" jokes work just as well as "Italian" jokes or (choose nationality/origin/race/creed of your choice).
Anyway I'm rambling, but it's just a hunch.
It's just a hunch really, as the jokes started long before I was born, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the jokes were invented by mill workers to make fun of other mill workers, let alone children on the playgrounds at school...I and I'm sure many others on here have been the brunt of either "Dumb Polak" jokes or some similar on many occasions. It has nothing to do with you being Polish, or of Polish decent, nor does it have anything to do with quite a few things. I think people simply pick a target, and invent something that will upset that person-creating great fun for the other coworkers, at his/her expense. In school I was one of 3 people in the county with a Polish name-so I've heard ALL the jokes. After joining the Navy I got the "dumb redneck" jokes because I grew up in a rural area in the Southern U.S.....it isn't just Polish people who get teased. A teacher at one of my schools had to send her son a picture of their house, because his coworkers (he was a nuclear power engineer) thought he no doubt lived in a tar-paper shack or perhaps a run-down trailer.
Some people hate Polish people I'm sure, but I think it more likely started as one specific worker or student trying to upset another specific worker or student, for a laugh.
Which is why all the "Polak" jokes work just as well as "Italian" jokes or (choose nationality/origin/race/creed of your choice).
Anyway I'm rambling, but it's just a hunch.
JohnP
26 Nov 2007
Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]
Trust me, I know they are nasty, and like quite a few others in a similar situation to mine, I've been the target of most of them, and yes, they do hurt. Doesn't mean the person telling the joke has any CLUE about Poland or its culture (to be honest, neither did I, growing up-I just figured my name was a cruel joke to make my life...interesting. I was 24 before I knew what a Pierogi was, as my Grandfather who grew up in Krakow died when I was 7) more importantly usually the person saw something easy to make jokes about, and used that.
As for proof, I can offer nothing only anecdotal evidence-which is why it is a hunch. I've been a student, I've worked in a factory, I've been in many places where this can be seen....
Just curious, when did people tell the first ones? I did not realize this was a specifically American thing...there are lots of possibilities I guess. Doesn't make them nice, but not sure the people telling them actually know anything about Polish people, either-they just know they have someone in front of them, and they know a way to make jokes about him...
Again, just a hunch.
It's hate propaganda of the most vicious kind.
Trust me, I know they are nasty, and like quite a few others in a similar situation to mine, I've been the target of most of them, and yes, they do hurt. Doesn't mean the person telling the joke has any CLUE about Poland or its culture (to be honest, neither did I, growing up-I just figured my name was a cruel joke to make my life...interesting. I was 24 before I knew what a Pierogi was, as my Grandfather who grew up in Krakow died when I was 7) more importantly usually the person saw something easy to make jokes about, and used that.
As for proof, I can offer nothing only anecdotal evidence-which is why it is a hunch. I've been a student, I've worked in a factory, I've been in many places where this can be seen....
Just curious, when did people tell the first ones? I did not realize this was a specifically American thing...there are lots of possibilities I guess. Doesn't make them nice, but not sure the people telling them actually know anything about Polish people, either-they just know they have someone in front of them, and they know a way to make jokes about him...
Again, just a hunch.
JohnP
8 Dec 2007
USA, Canada / Do many Polish people in America hate Americans? [592]
Just thought I would chip in, I believe the average American doesn't travel to other countries not because he/she doesn't want to, but rather because he/she is simply unable to afford it or does not have time. American industry is very strict and tight with "vacation" compared to many European and other nations. Many jobs do not give time off at all, and others require workers to work for a considerable number of years before granting enough time to actually see anything. So many of the people who do get to travel abroad are either students, in between, retired, or, compared to the masses, a little better-off financially. These generally do not represent what most Americans are, however they are what many perceive us as.
One of my first jobs here was as a minimum wage laborer in a factory making high-end furniture; one had to work for two solid years before being allowed one week off work. As I recall, after 10 years, it was raised to two weeks. While there are companies that pay better, etc. most still do not provide large quantities of "off" time for their employees to go sample Europe, etc. in most cases.
The only times I've been lucky enough to be in Europe (once for 3 hours and then again for 2 days) were in Germany, and I had to be going to/from a war to do it.
Sorry. I just think many people have a mistaken idea about Americans and what makes us tick. We'd LOVE to go hang out in Poland, UK, Russia, Italy, Spain, wherever....but for most of us, that's only something we can dream about. It's just unfortunate that the opinions of most in the world seem to be made based on the actions of just a few non representative, usually slightly more privileged, examples of our citizenry.
One day, if I'm lucky and keep working hard, I can hope to become one of those traveled few.
Just thought I would chip in, I believe the average American doesn't travel to other countries not because he/she doesn't want to, but rather because he/she is simply unable to afford it or does not have time. American industry is very strict and tight with "vacation" compared to many European and other nations. Many jobs do not give time off at all, and others require workers to work for a considerable number of years before granting enough time to actually see anything. So many of the people who do get to travel abroad are either students, in between, retired, or, compared to the masses, a little better-off financially. These generally do not represent what most Americans are, however they are what many perceive us as.
One of my first jobs here was as a minimum wage laborer in a factory making high-end furniture; one had to work for two solid years before being allowed one week off work. As I recall, after 10 years, it was raised to two weeks. While there are companies that pay better, etc. most still do not provide large quantities of "off" time for their employees to go sample Europe, etc. in most cases.
The only times I've been lucky enough to be in Europe (once for 3 hours and then again for 2 days) were in Germany, and I had to be going to/from a war to do it.
Sorry. I just think many people have a mistaken idea about Americans and what makes us tick. We'd LOVE to go hang out in Poland, UK, Russia, Italy, Spain, wherever....but for most of us, that's only something we can dream about. It's just unfortunate that the opinions of most in the world seem to be made based on the actions of just a few non representative, usually slightly more privileged, examples of our citizenry.
One day, if I'm lucky and keep working hard, I can hope to become one of those traveled few.
JohnP
9 Dec 2007
USA, Canada / Do many Polish people in America hate Americans? [592]
No big deal. People here in the US make the best of the time we get, also. I imagine if for everyone in Europe traveling to another country meant 20 hours by plane and a month's pay for the ticket, more people in Europe would also vacation locally, not mentioning just the time. There are plenty of people who get time off in the U.S. but for the most part the U.S. is not as socialized as perhaps some nations in Europe, and the average worker here, given the option of spending a huge amount of money and flying himself and his family (or her family, as the case may be) to Europe for the one or two weeks most here get-or spending much less, and staying in the U.S. for a fraction of the cost, and basking somewhere on a beach, camping in the mountains, skiing, or whatever....that trip to Europe gets pushed back farther and farther.
I'm rambling but I'm sure you get the idea. It's not that Americans are uninterested in the rest of the world, but a vacation in another country long enough to mean anything is out of reach for most Americans.
My grandfather grew up in Krakow, some day I would like to visit there; if I stay in the armed forces long enough to retire, and if I am lucky enough that by that time Poland is still friendly enough to the U.S. that there are U.S. military flights to somewhere near that I can hop onto-I plan to do exactly that.
But I'm getting a bit off-topic. I really don't know what Poles here think of us, and it has little to do with my desires to visit Europe for longer than a refueling stop on the way to one place or other that generally isn't fun.
John P.
No big deal. People here in the US make the best of the time we get, also. I imagine if for everyone in Europe traveling to another country meant 20 hours by plane and a month's pay for the ticket, more people in Europe would also vacation locally, not mentioning just the time. There are plenty of people who get time off in the U.S. but for the most part the U.S. is not as socialized as perhaps some nations in Europe, and the average worker here, given the option of spending a huge amount of money and flying himself and his family (or her family, as the case may be) to Europe for the one or two weeks most here get-or spending much less, and staying in the U.S. for a fraction of the cost, and basking somewhere on a beach, camping in the mountains, skiing, or whatever....that trip to Europe gets pushed back farther and farther.
I'm rambling but I'm sure you get the idea. It's not that Americans are uninterested in the rest of the world, but a vacation in another country long enough to mean anything is out of reach for most Americans.
My grandfather grew up in Krakow, some day I would like to visit there; if I stay in the armed forces long enough to retire, and if I am lucky enough that by that time Poland is still friendly enough to the U.S. that there are U.S. military flights to somewhere near that I can hop onto-I plan to do exactly that.
But I'm getting a bit off-topic. I really don't know what Poles here think of us, and it has little to do with my desires to visit Europe for longer than a refueling stop on the way to one place or other that generally isn't fun.
John P.
JohnP
10 Dec 2007
USA, Canada / Polish/European Food in North Carolina [7]
That's great news! I grew up in NC, will swing by one day on the way to visit the family...
thanks for the tip...
John P
That's great news! I grew up in NC, will swing by one day on the way to visit the family...
thanks for the tip...
John P
JohnP
15 Dec 2007
USA, Canada / Do many Polish people in America hate Americans? [592]
.....and somewhere, in the distance....there is circus music playing.....
.....and somewhere, in the distance....there is circus music playing.....
JohnP
23 Feb 2008
News / Are Poles good enough for USA (to go there without a visa)? [288]
All I know, is if you are able to save 15,000 USD in 2 months, I want to know what job you were doing?
I know we in the armed forces are notorious for low pay, but that's pretty good pay for a citizen, don't know about people on work Visas.
Military retirement won't pay the bills, and some day I'll have to get another job....
John P.
All I know, is if you are able to save 15,000 USD in 2 months, I want to know what job you were doing?
I know we in the armed forces are notorious for low pay, but that's pretty good pay for a citizen, don't know about people on work Visas.
Military retirement won't pay the bills, and some day I'll have to get another job....
John P.
JohnP
23 Feb 2008
News / Are Poles good enough for USA (to go there without a visa)? [288]
It's not coming *that* soon for me, and with each new election the retirement becomes a little less "beneficial"....most I could hope for is half my base pay and the ability to fly space-available on military flights. Medical used to be free too, but I believe that is going away, Space-A only works if you don't have a job and want to travel to random places most folks don't want to go anyway....(Honey, we're vacationing in Afghanistan again!!!...hmmm doubt that'd go over well...) And 1/2 base pay won't pay my mortgage AND buy groceries...
I have some time before I get there, but I'm at 14 years right now, and one can retire at 20 years....better to have an idea what to do when I get out.
John P.
It's not coming *that* soon for me, and with each new election the retirement becomes a little less "beneficial"....most I could hope for is half my base pay and the ability to fly space-available on military flights. Medical used to be free too, but I believe that is going away, Space-A only works if you don't have a job and want to travel to random places most folks don't want to go anyway....(Honey, we're vacationing in Afghanistan again!!!...hmmm doubt that'd go over well...) And 1/2 base pay won't pay my mortgage AND buy groceries...
I have some time before I get there, but I'm at 14 years right now, and one can retire at 20 years....better to have an idea what to do when I get out.
John P.
JohnP
23 May 2008
Genealogy / Polish person's average height? [210]
I don't know. I am 6'2" (almost 188cm) but I'm a mutt if you will and 3rd gen American.
I am only around average, at work. Not sure how I would fit in in Poland (even if I knew the language-right now all I have going for me is the name..)
John P.
I don't know. I am 6'2" (almost 188cm) but I'm a mutt if you will and 3rd gen American.
I am only around average, at work. Not sure how I would fit in in Poland (even if I knew the language-right now all I have going for me is the name..)
John P.
JohnP
3 Sep 2008
Love / Nice Polish women photos [329]
Shows what I know.
I thought she looked Asian, perhaps Thai.
John P.
Arise_St_George:
black girl that's lightened her skin
she's a afro polish mix
black girl that's lightened her skin
she's a afro polish mix
Shows what I know.
I thought she looked Asian, perhaps Thai.
John P.
JohnP
21 Sep 2008
Genealogy / Any Polish Tatars here? [95]
Perhaps a silly question, but what does the typical Tatar look like?
I wouldn't have the slightest clue if my family came from Tatars or not (well the Polish side, anyway)
John P.
Perhaps a silly question, but what does the typical Tatar look like?
I wouldn't have the slightest clue if my family came from Tatars or not (well the Polish side, anyway)
John P.
JohnP
23 Jan 2009
History / Polish weapons and militaria - got any? [153]
Very interesting thread.
My grandfather used to have quite a lot of WWI and II stuff, he grew up in Poland but served in US Army during WWII (he was born in US while his parents visited Pennsylvania). When he passed, unfortunately, my grandmother desired to be the "only antique in the house" and threw out countless things that today no doubt would bring collectors running.
Bummer.
Well, I'll sit back again and read. Kind of surprised I can access this site out here (I'm in Iraq and most stuff is blocked for us out here)
Incidentally I've heard somewhere that the Mauser K98's made in Radom are considered to be some of the higher quality versions of the rifles made, license or no.
all the best folks.
John P.
Very interesting thread.
My grandfather used to have quite a lot of WWI and II stuff, he grew up in Poland but served in US Army during WWII (he was born in US while his parents visited Pennsylvania). When he passed, unfortunately, my grandmother desired to be the "only antique in the house" and threw out countless things that today no doubt would bring collectors running.
Bummer.
Well, I'll sit back again and read. Kind of surprised I can access this site out here (I'm in Iraq and most stuff is blocked for us out here)
Incidentally I've heard somewhere that the Mauser K98's made in Radom are considered to be some of the higher quality versions of the rifles made, license or no.
all the best folks.
John P.
JohnP
2 Feb 2009
Travel / Passenger plane converted into restaurant near Katowice, Poland [21]
That is very cool.
I've seen a railroad caboose converted into a diner before (when I was young and fascinated with the railroad, as possibly all boys are...always tried getting my parents to stop there) but never an airplane.
What sort of airplane is it, you've seen the outside?
John P.
That is very cool.
I've seen a railroad caboose converted into a diner before (when I was young and fascinated with the railroad, as possibly all boys are...always tried getting my parents to stop there) but never an airplane.
What sort of airplane is it, you've seen the outside?
John P.
JohnP
2 Feb 2009
Travel / Passenger plane converted into restaurant near Katowice, Poland [21]
Doesn't look like the tables fold up, either....pretty neat at any rate.
John P.
Doesn't look like the tables fold up, either....pretty neat at any rate.
John P.
JohnP
9 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
And yet....just as the paranoid alarmists were saying on here a year ago predicted....now that Russia controls most of Europe's fuel...she is using it as leverage, by turning off the flow, until things go her way...
I don't know if Poland needs to worry about Russia invading or not, but Sasha, it is interesting that in your previous post,
(emphasis added) it almost betrays a logic of "well, we're angry at the Americans, so we might invade Poland". Hopefully that is not the point you were trying to make, but ultimately if a country is an ally of the U.S. why do Russians care? Russia is, or was, or could be...an ally of the U.S. as well. Just as friends do not agree on everything, neither do nations have to. Personally...I still do not think Georgia was the big aggressor in this past fray; I just think they were the loser in it, and were Russia stronger, I imagine perhaps US troops would have been sent also-but because Russia is weak (conventionally) the big minds all know it would turn into a nuclear exchange (an area Russia is NOT weak on) over territories Russia had already taken over in everything but name.
It is naive considering Poland's past history, for her to allow her armed forces to wither. A strong Poland should not be seen as a threat anymore than a strong Russia.
I do believe history repeats itself. We have newer technologies, but the same human nature, ultimately, and politics just as crooked as in 1939.
Just the Neville Chamberlains of the world have different names.
John P.
And yet....just as the paranoid alarmists were saying on here a year ago predicted....now that Russia controls most of Europe's fuel...she is using it as leverage, by turning off the flow, until things go her way...
I don't know if Poland needs to worry about Russia invading or not, but Sasha, it is interesting that in your previous post,
I find it naive to put it mildly when people say about the future agression of Russia against Poland as if it is something inevitable. Weird. That would be stupid. However I should admit that american influence in Europe adds fuel to the fire.
(emphasis added) it almost betrays a logic of "well, we're angry at the Americans, so we might invade Poland". Hopefully that is not the point you were trying to make, but ultimately if a country is an ally of the U.S. why do Russians care? Russia is, or was, or could be...an ally of the U.S. as well. Just as friends do not agree on everything, neither do nations have to. Personally...I still do not think Georgia was the big aggressor in this past fray; I just think they were the loser in it, and were Russia stronger, I imagine perhaps US troops would have been sent also-but because Russia is weak (conventionally) the big minds all know it would turn into a nuclear exchange (an area Russia is NOT weak on) over territories Russia had already taken over in everything but name.
It is naive considering Poland's past history, for her to allow her armed forces to wither. A strong Poland should not be seen as a threat anymore than a strong Russia.
I do believe history repeats itself. We have newer technologies, but the same human nature, ultimately, and politics just as crooked as in 1939.
Just the Neville Chamberlains of the world have different names.
John P.
JohnP
9 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
Possibly...still, it set a precedent. There are other ways to blackmail nations besides letting them know you control their very lifeblood.
I guess if some country figures out how to control air, scuba tanks will get more expensive...
John P.
Yeah...till she got the money for her goods...how horrible!
Possibly...still, it set a precedent. There are other ways to blackmail nations besides letting them know you control their very lifeblood.
I guess if some country figures out how to control air, scuba tanks will get more expensive...
John P.
JohnP
9 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
Interesting point. I don't completely disagree, although from watching Russia's actions it would seem Russia's interest is the oil...(also?) so there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference. I do think there need be some difference between the nations, however, otherwise what would be the point.
There is of course a counter to every argument. One could also say that while the missile shield in Poland is a counter to Iranian threats primarily, Russia has brand new ICBMs that is has recently tested...which is a far cry beyond *starting* a shield. Russia's protests and threats against Poland "IF she installs a shield" sound if anything like all the more reason to build one, rather than not. Generals discussing re-aiming Russian missiles at Poland....all because of some interceptors...sounds to me a lot like someone saying "I'll shoot you if you buy a bullet resistant vest". Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems our politicians (all of them, not just yours or mine) are more petty than the common folk they are supposed to be leading.
John P.
I disagree. Two Empires can't be allies. We(you and me I mean) may be friends, I have many American friends but two our governments - never. And perhaps we will both be able to see it better, when the arctic shelf's developed. The basic american interest here is the oil and they always forget while in Europe the old saying "when at Rome, do as the Romans do".
Interesting point. I don't completely disagree, although from watching Russia's actions it would seem Russia's interest is the oil...(also?) so there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference. I do think there need be some difference between the nations, however, otherwise what would be the point.
No... I would apply different logic. The American missile system located in Poland might shake the piece in the region.
There is of course a counter to every argument. One could also say that while the missile shield in Poland is a counter to Iranian threats primarily, Russia has brand new ICBMs that is has recently tested...which is a far cry beyond *starting* a shield. Russia's protests and threats against Poland "IF she installs a shield" sound if anything like all the more reason to build one, rather than not. Generals discussing re-aiming Russian missiles at Poland....all because of some interceptors...sounds to me a lot like someone saying "I'll shoot you if you buy a bullet resistant vest". Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems our politicians (all of them, not just yours or mine) are more petty than the common folk they are supposed to be leading.
John P.
JohnP
10 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
Sasha, interestingly enough it seems you and I see things pretty similarly here (sorry I've been away for a few hours, guess there's a war going on here or something..)
My suspicion is that Iran already has the missiles, and is now just trying to get something "special" for a payload. After all, as you and I both know, the technology for launching a warhead and for launching a satellite...are the same, and Iran has just done exactly that, contrary to many who thought they weren't so far along.
I do think the shield would help against Iran. It may not stop a cold-war style onslaught, such as the U.S. or Soviet Union were threatening each other with, but I think it could be effective against Iran.
Finally, while I agree there is perhaps reason to invade Iran right away, there are far too many naysayers who feel that the U.S. invents everything from thin air and is just picking on people....so I would say, why not Russia? I know Russia has oil deals with Ahmadinejad, but hey, if the Russian army were to roll through Iran...the ICBM threat would be countered at least. The new government of Iran will still need to sell its oil, at any rate, and new deals could then be brokered....its a thought, and it would take away from all those who distrust everything the US does. Of course, then there are probably just as many who distrust what Russia does, as well.
John P.
I don't see any other way to handle the issue except for diplomatic. Let's face the fact: if Iran would build the missile, Poland shield couldn't help. Well... there's one more way - to invade Iran right-away but this hardly possible. I don't think the world society will allow to the US another Iraq.
Sasha, interestingly enough it seems you and I see things pretty similarly here (sorry I've been away for a few hours, guess there's a war going on here or something..)
My suspicion is that Iran already has the missiles, and is now just trying to get something "special" for a payload. After all, as you and I both know, the technology for launching a warhead and for launching a satellite...are the same, and Iran has just done exactly that, contrary to many who thought they weren't so far along.
I do think the shield would help against Iran. It may not stop a cold-war style onslaught, such as the U.S. or Soviet Union were threatening each other with, but I think it could be effective against Iran.
Finally, while I agree there is perhaps reason to invade Iran right away, there are far too many naysayers who feel that the U.S. invents everything from thin air and is just picking on people....so I would say, why not Russia? I know Russia has oil deals with Ahmadinejad, but hey, if the Russian army were to roll through Iran...the ICBM threat would be countered at least. The new government of Iran will still need to sell its oil, at any rate, and new deals could then be brokered....its a thought, and it would take away from all those who distrust everything the US does. Of course, then there are probably just as many who distrust what Russia does, as well.
John P.
JohnP
10 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
All great powers face this. Likewise the USA. Everyone is around when they think you owe them something, but disappear when there is blame to spread. The only way I could see them being completely right is by calling into account specific people or groups formerly in the Kremlin for what they did. I am not one who believes it is right to terrorize an innocent, simply because his great great great grandfather terrorized my own, for instance.
The interceptors they plan for the shield have no radioactive materials; they are not like the old 1950s and 60s interceptors from the US and (apparently still) Russia, which were themselves small nuclear weapons. The new ones (here) use kinetic technology. Not sure if Russia is concerned enough to change, after all her nuclear interceptors do work...they're just nasty is all. In the US there is a huge stigma against anything that has the word "nuclear" in it, so there's large pushes to do things in other ways.
We can hope.
I've never supposed that Iran's capabilities were achieved without help. I am not saying Russia handed Iran ICBMs anymore than the US gave them stinger missiles...but ultimately, as I understand it, it is believed Iran got a lot of her technology from the Koreans and other sources, who...originally got *their* toys from Russia; likewise the Iranians' latest shoulder fired missile...is simply a copy of smuggled Stingers from Afghanistan, but made locally in Iran. I agree with using diplomacy as much as possible, however diplomacy without force to back it is foolhardy.
Perhaps they do. It is no accident I believe, that on multiple occasions Israel has desired to attack the Iranian nuclear sites. It was Israeli intel, I believe, that brought to light that the Iranians were purifying nuclear material in the first place, but this is one point I could be wrong about. The rest of the world seemed to be, and perhaps continues to be...hiding its eyes.
I agree...we HAVE been bought and sold. However the threat being questionable at best....I disagree on. Just because someone smiles to you does not mean he is not going to kill you. There are words, and there are deeds. Trust but verify.
Iran is interested in Poland because unlike our own countries, Iran's government and its religion...are essentially one and the same. It is hard for many in secular countries to understand, but it isn't because of who Poland is, but because of where she stands.
Seanus, you forget, Columbia University, for starters, invited him, are not pro-US policy in any way (many US universities seem stuck in the 1960's and aren't happy if they can't protest something), and furthermore.....the U.S. is still in spite of what many may believe, a civilized country. The man, like him or not, is a head of state, and the headquarters of the UN, etc...is here, also, even though they seldom decide anything in the U.S. favor.
He was protected as are any foreign leaders here. It does not mean his country is not seen as a threat, what sort of travesty do you propose should have been done? While his country is seen as a threat, we are not in direct war with them, and what exactly do you think would have happened had we allowed something to happen to him? There is a difference between seeing his nation as a threat, and therefore putting in place measures to protect against the same (diplomatic pressure to stop plutonium enrichment, missile shields to allies in his range, etc etc even asking Israelis to hold off while we attempt diplomacy) and outright attacking him personally or his nation. After all, unlike our nations, where Presidents or Prime Ministers hold much of the power, in Iran, the strings are pulled from behind the scenes.
People thought similar things about other leaders who proved to be just that. Stalin *looked* friendly.
With Ahmadinejad...the tune at home and abroad changes QUITE a bit. He is a very intelligent man, that doesn't mean it is somehow unwise to watch him and his nation with a wary eye.
Regardless of why you think we are in this situation.
John P.
And it's interesting... if there're some ethnical cleansing, 1000s of people rotted in camps then Russia is a heir of the guilt but if there're some military bases, factories then of course baltic states or Ukraine or any other country of the former USSR is the rightful heir.
All great powers face this. Likewise the USA. Everyone is around when they think you owe them something, but disappear when there is blame to spread. The only way I could see them being completely right is by calling into account specific people or groups formerly in the Kremlin for what they did. I am not one who believes it is right to terrorize an innocent, simply because his great great great grandfather terrorized my own, for instance.
The best guarantee is not to keep radioactive materials (going back to my example), i.e. not to install missile shield.
The interceptors they plan for the shield have no radioactive materials; they are not like the old 1950s and 60s interceptors from the US and (apparently still) Russia, which were themselves small nuclear weapons. The new ones (here) use kinetic technology. Not sure if Russia is concerned enough to change, after all her nuclear interceptors do work...they're just nasty is all. In the US there is a huge stigma against anything that has the word "nuclear" in it, so there's large pushes to do things in other ways.
Iran is bluffing.
We can hope.
They in fact did once the launch of the satellite but there was Russia helping them. Their warhead delivery system can cover for now less than 2000km but as I already said Russia didn't feel comfortable with that and tried to reach a compromise with Iran both in her oil interests and interests of her and her neighbours safety.
I've never supposed that Iran's capabilities were achieved without help. I am not saying Russia handed Iran ICBMs anymore than the US gave them stinger missiles...but ultimately, as I understand it, it is believed Iran got a lot of her technology from the Koreans and other sources, who...originally got *their* toys from Russia; likewise the Iranians' latest shoulder fired missile...is simply a copy of smuggled Stingers from Afghanistan, but made locally in Iran. I agree with using diplomacy as much as possible, however diplomacy without force to back it is foolhardy.
Of course Iran is such a huge threat, LOL. Does Israel have such a shield?
Perhaps they do. It is no accident I believe, that on multiple occasions Israel has desired to attack the Iranian nuclear sites. It was Israeli intel, I believe, that brought to light that the Iranians were purifying nuclear material in the first place, but this is one point I could be wrong about. The rest of the world seemed to be, and perhaps continues to be...hiding its eyes.
I don't deny the right to defence. Yes, safety is of paramount importance but we have been bought and sold by the press. Political considerations should assume greater importance as the threat is questionable at best.
I agree...we HAVE been bought and sold. However the threat being questionable at best....I disagree on. Just because someone smiles to you does not mean he is not going to kill you. There are words, and there are deeds. Trust but verify.
It just seems like Poland is pandering to the whims of the White House at the expense of Russia. It should be addressed on its merit and not as a payback. Since when has Iran been interested in Poland?
Iran is interested in Poland because unlike our own countries, Iran's government and its religion...are essentially one and the same. It is hard for many in secular countries to understand, but it isn't because of who Poland is, but because of where she stands.
Killing USA military?? If that was really the case, there was no way in God's Earth that he'd've braved the trip to Columbia University.
Seanus, you forget, Columbia University, for starters, invited him, are not pro-US policy in any way (many US universities seem stuck in the 1960's and aren't happy if they can't protest something), and furthermore.....the U.S. is still in spite of what many may believe, a civilized country. The man, like him or not, is a head of state, and the headquarters of the UN, etc...is here, also, even though they seldom decide anything in the U.S. favor.
If you look deep enough, you will find that Bush treated Ahmedinejad very well for somebody who was such a 'threat'. His safe passage was paramount and his assassination was never really an issue.
He was protected as are any foreign leaders here. It does not mean his country is not seen as a threat, what sort of travesty do you propose should have been done? While his country is seen as a threat, we are not in direct war with them, and what exactly do you think would have happened had we allowed something to happen to him? There is a difference between seeing his nation as a threat, and therefore putting in place measures to protect against the same (diplomatic pressure to stop plutonium enrichment, missile shields to allies in his range, etc etc even asking Israelis to hold off while we attempt diplomacy) and outright attacking him personally or his nation. After all, unlike our nations, where Presidents or Prime Ministers hold much of the power, in Iran, the strings are pulled from behind the scenes.
Please tell me, how many interviews have you seen him in?? I have watched him in several and, although I see a devious glint in his eye, I don't think he is the kind of person who would destroy like others suggest.
People thought similar things about other leaders who proved to be just that. Stalin *looked* friendly.
It's like Obama at the APEC conference, VERY pro-Israel but, with a different audience, the tune changes a fair bit.
With Ahmadinejad...the tune at home and abroad changes QUITE a bit. He is a very intelligent man, that doesn't mean it is somehow unwise to watch him and his nation with a wary eye.
Regardless of why you think we are in this situation.
John P.
JohnP
10 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
(Seanus, I'll have to take your word. I can't you tube anything out here....too much bandwidth. )
Still that's now. Where was everyone when Ahmadinejad first fired up the reactors, and at home was vowing the destruction of the Zionists (like them or not, they ARE an entire country) and their allies, while seeming simply to be the charming man who leads a country being picked on by the Americans...when he is abroad?
A two faced man is capable of anything. Give him nuclear weapons...and the unpredictability is terrifying.
Which, I think, also answers your questions about Bush and his "henchmen" considering pre-emptive strikes against him, and why they did not open dialogue with him. When a man says things that contradict, what sort of "deal" can he make, that is worth potentially risking millions of lives? Exactly none.
So, preparations are made in case war is the only option (in spite of the people around who say "why he seems like such a nice man, Mr. Ahmadinejad") while putting containment measures in place(missile shields, etc) if it is not.
After all, we could go to war with N. Korea tomorrow...they rattle their sabers every two weeks it seems, looking for attention. If Iran is one of these, it would be stupid to engage in a fourth front, when Iran can simply be put into a holding pattern until hopefully saner leaders come to power or something else happens.
Not to mention...if all these other countries are "highly critical" etc etc of Iran's actions, let them put THEIR men on the line for once. We've heard this before. Everyone and their brother claimed Saddam had WMD's, but then when they weren't instantly found, did they say "oh we were wrong" or, "maybe they were moved or we just couldn't find them"? no, they said "Bush lied, and Americans are fighting an ILLEGAL WAR". So screw all of them. Until their blood is on the line too. I'm happy to do things for my country, but I'm tired of doing the world's dirty work only to have them call US the center of all that is evil, when we do it.
Iran's missiles can't reach MY home town, after all.
Perhaps some of the countries Iran CAN reach or even ones it's a good bet they can...can make the first move on this. I feel like America is somehow the world's doberman. They love us when they want us to protect them, but talk about they hate that $#^ dog when their society neighbors are around.
It is frustrating.
I'm in an odd mood.
John P.
I don't think the world is hiding its eyes. France, in particular, vociferously opposes any nuclear developments in Iran. Just Youtube Bernard Kouchner and Iran and you will see.
(Seanus, I'll have to take your word. I can't you tube anything out here....too much bandwidth. )
Still that's now. Where was everyone when Ahmadinejad first fired up the reactors, and at home was vowing the destruction of the Zionists (like them or not, they ARE an entire country) and their allies, while seeming simply to be the charming man who leads a country being picked on by the Americans...when he is abroad?
A two faced man is capable of anything. Give him nuclear weapons...and the unpredictability is terrifying.
Which, I think, also answers your questions about Bush and his "henchmen" considering pre-emptive strikes against him, and why they did not open dialogue with him. When a man says things that contradict, what sort of "deal" can he make, that is worth potentially risking millions of lives? Exactly none.
So, preparations are made in case war is the only option (in spite of the people around who say "why he seems like such a nice man, Mr. Ahmadinejad") while putting containment measures in place(missile shields, etc) if it is not.
After all, we could go to war with N. Korea tomorrow...they rattle their sabers every two weeks it seems, looking for attention. If Iran is one of these, it would be stupid to engage in a fourth front, when Iran can simply be put into a holding pattern until hopefully saner leaders come to power or something else happens.
Not to mention...if all these other countries are "highly critical" etc etc of Iran's actions, let them put THEIR men on the line for once. We've heard this before. Everyone and their brother claimed Saddam had WMD's, but then when they weren't instantly found, did they say "oh we were wrong" or, "maybe they were moved or we just couldn't find them"? no, they said "Bush lied, and Americans are fighting an ILLEGAL WAR". So screw all of them. Until their blood is on the line too. I'm happy to do things for my country, but I'm tired of doing the world's dirty work only to have them call US the center of all that is evil, when we do it.
Iran's missiles can't reach MY home town, after all.
Perhaps some of the countries Iran CAN reach or even ones it's a good bet they can...can make the first move on this. I feel like America is somehow the world's doberman. They love us when they want us to protect them, but talk about they hate that $#^ dog when their society neighbors are around.
It is frustrating.
I'm in an odd mood.
John P.
JohnP
10 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
This is something we can all hope for, and reason enough to be ready, but not pull the trigger just yet;
John P.
A new appointment, a more moderate one like he is, would go a long way to alleviating tensions and restoring hope in the process of dialogue.
This is something we can all hope for, and reason enough to be ready, but not pull the trigger just yet;
John P.
JohnP
10 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
Here is what a major problem is here...I think I have more issue with Ahmadinejad personally than I do with Iran. They were an ally in the past, and might (some day) be again. However leaders demanding a whole segment of society, or entire nations vanish are not to be trusted.
How does he EXPECT to be treated. In this day and age such things are took more literally than figuratively, even if saying it figuratively were in the realm of polite conversation.
John P.
Well, Obama has extended his arm out and, judging by reports, Iran are interested. They just don't want to be treated as fools in a carrot and stick game.
Here is what a major problem is here...I think I have more issue with Ahmadinejad personally than I do with Iran. They were an ally in the past, and might (some day) be again. However leaders demanding a whole segment of society, or entire nations vanish are not to be trusted.
How does he EXPECT to be treated. In this day and age such things are took more literally than figuratively, even if saying it figuratively were in the realm of polite conversation.
John P.
JohnP
13 Feb 2009
News / What's the stupidest question asked about Poland? [414]
Well, get this,
I'm not even Polish (my name is...I am an American) but my little sister who is a scientist tells me all the time about other scientists asking her "how was it growing up under the boot of the communists" or commenting as if she'd endured this....
We grew up in the US.
Likewise, during my first deployment to this wonderful country (I'm in Iraq) we worked quite a bit with Poland's GROM special operations types. One of our officers (to use the slang here) "threw me under the bus" and sent me to mingle, thinking I spoke the language. Awkward to say the least....he assumed, I guess, because of the name.
My grandfather grew up in Poland....but I didn't even know what a Pierogi was until I was 23...and my girlfriend who was part Polish had family making these things.
I was even afraid of what horrors might be inside them... so now I try to learn more and more. Grandfather took many secrets to his grave.
Well since that's not QUITE on topic, I'll step aside now.
John P.
Well, get this,
I'm not even Polish (my name is...I am an American) but my little sister who is a scientist tells me all the time about other scientists asking her "how was it growing up under the boot of the communists" or commenting as if she'd endured this....
We grew up in the US.
Likewise, during my first deployment to this wonderful country (I'm in Iraq) we worked quite a bit with Poland's GROM special operations types. One of our officers (to use the slang here) "threw me under the bus" and sent me to mingle, thinking I spoke the language. Awkward to say the least....he assumed, I guess, because of the name.
My grandfather grew up in Poland....but I didn't even know what a Pierogi was until I was 23...and my girlfriend who was part Polish had family making these things.
I was even afraid of what horrors might be inside them... so now I try to learn more and more. Grandfather took many secrets to his grave.
Well since that's not QUITE on topic, I'll step aside now.
John P.
JohnP
14 Feb 2009
News / What's the stupidest question asked about Poland? [414]
I'm sure the favor could be returned to your own countrymen...although in fairness some areas of the US are so convinced they are superior to or more enlightened than everyone else on the planet (sorry LA and New York, love you guys...) that it shocks them that everyone else doesn't live in a hovel...even in their own country. Hollywood doesn't help. I grew up in NC...and spent years trying to convince people I did not live in a tar paper shack or want to marry my sister. and I'm an American. My mom was a schoolteacher and one of her friends' sons was a nuclear engineer on a submarine...and he ran into the same thing.
People who judge based on nationality or where you live are stupid period, not just the ones from America who do it.
John P.
I will never be offended by whatever Americans come up with, they can be so unbelievably stupid its hilarius.
I'm sure the favor could be returned to your own countrymen...although in fairness some areas of the US are so convinced they are superior to or more enlightened than everyone else on the planet (sorry LA and New York, love you guys...) that it shocks them that everyone else doesn't live in a hovel...even in their own country. Hollywood doesn't help. I grew up in NC...and spent years trying to convince people I did not live in a tar paper shack or want to marry my sister. and I'm an American. My mom was a schoolteacher and one of her friends' sons was a nuclear engineer on a submarine...and he ran into the same thing.
People who judge based on nationality or where you live are stupid period, not just the ones from America who do it.
John P.
JohnP
15 Feb 2009
Love / The age of consent in Poland is only 15 [147]
This is silly.
Age of consent never stopped a single true sicko, I'd wager. Perhaps it did stop a few couples from getting married for a few years, but that's it. In the U.S. it varies from state to state, and the laws are different in different jurisdictions. 14 is legal for consent, for instance, in some states (yes, true) although I think those states have a maximum age difference, similar, Seanus, to what you refer to Austria having.
Just because there is a law applying the extreme limits does not mean that everyone is rushing to try them.
Ultimately, the laws only protect you from HONEST people. Hopefully your daughter has been instilled with enough knowledge to take care of herself and has the intuition to avoid a sleazebag...in the mean time, martial arts training is a great workout, helps confidence, and might help her avoid some sicko that doesn't understand "no".
John P.
This is silly.
Age of consent never stopped a single true sicko, I'd wager. Perhaps it did stop a few couples from getting married for a few years, but that's it. In the U.S. it varies from state to state, and the laws are different in different jurisdictions. 14 is legal for consent, for instance, in some states (yes, true) although I think those states have a maximum age difference, similar, Seanus, to what you refer to Austria having.
Just because there is a law applying the extreme limits does not mean that everyone is rushing to try them.
Ultimately, the laws only protect you from HONEST people. Hopefully your daughter has been instilled with enough knowledge to take care of herself and has the intuition to avoid a sleazebag...in the mean time, martial arts training is a great workout, helps confidence, and might help her avoid some sicko that doesn't understand "no".
John P.
JohnP
24 Feb 2009
News / Poland Should Beef Up Military [286]
The horror of this is that in the U.S. it was generally known that Poland was a little better equipped and weapons were a little better put together than some of her contemporaries' versions of the same things, but that had it come to a nuclear exchange it is now known that it likely would not have been U.S. nukes raining down on Poland in event of war, but Soviet. Not bashing Russians here, but that scorched earth idea is so burned into their psyche apparently that such was the intent had NATO started rolling towards Russia. One can speculate, but perhaps that is why it is generally accepted that NATO upon knowing nuclear war was imminent, would have made the first strike. If only to reduce the Soviet arsenal prior to the counterstrike. Of course this is all old history.
It's always good not to have to rely on other countries, one never knows what other dirty deals those countries have had to make, and at the very least they will generally look after their own interests first. This is true. That said, the first part of this statement is only true if you think only America would be targeted by those missiles, but in reality you are kidding yourself there...those above countries can reach Europe a lot faster than the U.S., additionally, the US already is fielding versions of this same technology here. However an interceptor launched from a warship off the coast of North Carolina somewhere doesn't help Europe a whole lot....does it? I do not live in Poland, but have seen this same thing happen in the U.S.; people will say "oh this would be a wonderful idea to have" but then they protest that it not be placed in their back yard, due to the attention it receives.
WRT Russia...it is apparent to me that Russia intends Poland to be its bi...well let's just say Russia seems to feel it should control what Poland does and does not do. This is evidenced by Putin wishing to retarget his missiles toward Poland, for the suggestion of installing interceptors. How childish. It is simple bullying. Obviously his bluff has been called and you know where you stand with Russia. If Russia had a military with much skill they wouldn't be so insecure, I think. They have great equipment, they just need to catch back up to the training level they once had.
The crew of an interceptor base would of course be small...after all it is purely defensive in nature, and honestly the people who would man it likely would be technicians and not shock troops. They will not be arriving (IMHO) with helicopters armed to the teeth and special operations troops, but with computers, engineers, and missile technicians.
If Poland wanted an all out joint base with the U.S. that is something Poland should bring up. I am sure there are quite a few people who would much rather be stationed there than, oh, some of the other places we get sent. Especially if we were welcome.
And hate to tell you, but as for Russia planning to nuke Poland...what's different between that and the old Soviet days? They just admit it now, whereas before it was kept a secret but Poland, Czechoslovakia etc would have been the Soviet Union's "scorched earth" and they no doubt felt they would sacrifice quite a few of you to kill the American tanks that would have been trying to roll through from E. Germany to fight them.
Such was the cold war, but no doubt you knew most of this.
John P.
i dunno what happened, during communist times he had a almost half a million armed forces, 3rd largest in Europe after the Soviet Union and West Germany, and in quality of equipment it was in comparison also on NATO average.
The horror of this is that in the U.S. it was generally known that Poland was a little better equipped and weapons were a little better put together than some of her contemporaries' versions of the same things, but that had it come to a nuclear exchange it is now known that it likely would not have been U.S. nukes raining down on Poland in event of war, but Soviet. Not bashing Russians here, but that scorched earth idea is so burned into their psyche apparently that such was the intent had NATO started rolling towards Russia. One can speculate, but perhaps that is why it is generally accepted that NATO upon knowing nuclear war was imminent, would have made the first strike. If only to reduce the Soviet arsenal prior to the counterstrike. Of course this is all old history.
And this whole American anti-missile missles deal is the same thing, it's only for Americas benefit, to protect America from Iran, North Korea, and above all Russia, it's just making us a target, if Russia nukes us or invades, the 200 man American garison will pack up and leave, leaving us alone, AGAIN.
It's always good not to have to rely on other countries, one never knows what other dirty deals those countries have had to make, and at the very least they will generally look after their own interests first. This is true. That said, the first part of this statement is only true if you think only America would be targeted by those missiles, but in reality you are kidding yourself there...those above countries can reach Europe a lot faster than the U.S., additionally, the US already is fielding versions of this same technology here. However an interceptor launched from a warship off the coast of North Carolina somewhere doesn't help Europe a whole lot....does it? I do not live in Poland, but have seen this same thing happen in the U.S.; people will say "oh this would be a wonderful idea to have" but then they protest that it not be placed in their back yard, due to the attention it receives.
WRT Russia...it is apparent to me that Russia intends Poland to be its bi...well let's just say Russia seems to feel it should control what Poland does and does not do. This is evidenced by Putin wishing to retarget his missiles toward Poland, for the suggestion of installing interceptors. How childish. It is simple bullying. Obviously his bluff has been called and you know where you stand with Russia. If Russia had a military with much skill they wouldn't be so insecure, I think. They have great equipment, they just need to catch back up to the training level they once had.
The crew of an interceptor base would of course be small...after all it is purely defensive in nature, and honestly the people who would man it likely would be technicians and not shock troops. They will not be arriving (IMHO) with helicopters armed to the teeth and special operations troops, but with computers, engineers, and missile technicians.
If Poland wanted an all out joint base with the U.S. that is something Poland should bring up. I am sure there are quite a few people who would much rather be stationed there than, oh, some of the other places we get sent. Especially if we were welcome.
And hate to tell you, but as for Russia planning to nuke Poland...what's different between that and the old Soviet days? They just admit it now, whereas before it was kept a secret but Poland, Czechoslovakia etc would have been the Soviet Union's "scorched earth" and they no doubt felt they would sacrifice quite a few of you to kill the American tanks that would have been trying to roll through from E. Germany to fight them.
Such was the cold war, but no doubt you knew most of this.
John P.
JohnP
25 Feb 2009
Love / WHY DO POLISH MEN LIE? [150]
Just curious, why do you want a Polish boyfriend?
Lying to women...isn't specifically a Polish trait, unfortunately. All nationalities have these I'd imagine.
regardless, sorry you are having a run of bad luck apparently.
John P.
Just curious, why do you want a Polish boyfriend?
Lying to women...isn't specifically a Polish trait, unfortunately. All nationalities have these I'd imagine.
regardless, sorry you are having a run of bad luck apparently.
John P.
JohnP
10 Apr 2009
History / Why will Poland always be the puppet of America? [159]
This is all very interesting.
Some right some wrong, as it always seems to be. Seems Americans aren't the only people who bought the (ridiculously expensive) media hype that won Obama the election...and Americans aren't the only ones disillusioned with him.
It confuses me. On the one hand people were screaming about how they don't want the interceptor base...not in *my* back yard...."nimby's" we call them here...so now that Obama is cancelling it to suck up to Russia...people are complaining again?
Obama could care less about Poland, IMHO. He is too busy kissing up to radical Islam and super rich eccentric billionaires who are into kingdom making, to have time for nations which are predominantly Catholic, like Poland.
No, Israel doesn't call the shots. Obama's campaign contributors (paging Mr. Soros, paging Mr. Soros...) do. China...very possibly could, however at the moment they are in a quandary, as the Chinese economy is just as tied to the US economy as our is to theirs. President Bush...for all his shortcomings, did at least remember who our friends have been. Obama seems currently to be selling out friend after friend to attempt to appease current and former enemies. I do not understand it. If Poland is offered some good deal, or if some of the deals continue from the previous administration...I say jump on it for all it's worth, as Obama isn't likely to make new ones.
Incidentally...those "old C-130s"....we Americans are flying them too. The Air Force here has new fighters...but we are also still flying F16s, too. The Avionics suites are not made by the aircraft manufacturer, and typically these are provided by the end users.
I remember there was commentary about a fly off (about 15 years ago) where German F-4's held their own against American F-18's. Politics here seems to demand NEW this or that all the time without always taking time to perfect what we had already.
The Germans turned their F-4's into veritable hotrods with stronger engines, etc etc. likewise the Israelis...provide all the guts for the F-15's they got from us, and Israeli pilots are widely accepted as the best in the world.
Also...what sense would it make to provide US Avionics suites which wouldn't be able to communicate with anyone else in Poland's military? The ability to work in cohesion is extremely important, and I'm sure Poland will outfit whatever planes she has to be efficient in the role they need to be effective in?
Just speculating, anyway, like the rest of us.
Poland isn't a puppet, but I'm worried our newest President is, on a level much worse than the last one.
John P.
This is all very interesting.
Some right some wrong, as it always seems to be. Seems Americans aren't the only people who bought the (ridiculously expensive) media hype that won Obama the election...and Americans aren't the only ones disillusioned with him.
It confuses me. On the one hand people were screaming about how they don't want the interceptor base...not in *my* back yard...."nimby's" we call them here...so now that Obama is cancelling it to suck up to Russia...people are complaining again?
Obama could care less about Poland, IMHO. He is too busy kissing up to radical Islam and super rich eccentric billionaires who are into kingdom making, to have time for nations which are predominantly Catholic, like Poland.
No, Israel doesn't call the shots. Obama's campaign contributors (paging Mr. Soros, paging Mr. Soros...) do. China...very possibly could, however at the moment they are in a quandary, as the Chinese economy is just as tied to the US economy as our is to theirs. President Bush...for all his shortcomings, did at least remember who our friends have been. Obama seems currently to be selling out friend after friend to attempt to appease current and former enemies. I do not understand it. If Poland is offered some good deal, or if some of the deals continue from the previous administration...I say jump on it for all it's worth, as Obama isn't likely to make new ones.
Incidentally...those "old C-130s"....we Americans are flying them too. The Air Force here has new fighters...but we are also still flying F16s, too. The Avionics suites are not made by the aircraft manufacturer, and typically these are provided by the end users.
I remember there was commentary about a fly off (about 15 years ago) where German F-4's held their own against American F-18's. Politics here seems to demand NEW this or that all the time without always taking time to perfect what we had already.
The Germans turned their F-4's into veritable hotrods with stronger engines, etc etc. likewise the Israelis...provide all the guts for the F-15's they got from us, and Israeli pilots are widely accepted as the best in the world.
Also...what sense would it make to provide US Avionics suites which wouldn't be able to communicate with anyone else in Poland's military? The ability to work in cohesion is extremely important, and I'm sure Poland will outfit whatever planes she has to be efficient in the role they need to be effective in?
Just speculating, anyway, like the rest of us.
Poland isn't a puppet, but I'm worried our newest President is, on a level much worse than the last one.
John P.