Language / "someday" / "kiedys" - Confirming some spelling and forms [11]

Why 'w' + 'day of the week' needs the accusative? I think it might be explained by the fact that such a name tends to be seen as a sort of "target" by the language. So by saying 'w niedzielę' you act as if you were pointing at/targeting something - at one of the seven days of the week; the verb describing targeting uses the accusative: "celować w coś". In contrast to that, you do not "point at a month" in Polish, the time span of a month is perhaps too "broad" for that, so the language treats the month as place that "you are within" and puts the name of a month in locative which reflects the idea of "being within something".

Prepositions with time are always difficult in any language. For example, in Polish you would say "o godzinie czwartej", employing nevertheless the locative case for the span of time (or even a point in time!) much shorter than the whole day. I think such a usage may originate from the time when clocks and watches as we know them today did not exist in everyday life, and telling the hour was more often vague than precise; the use of the preposition 'o' with the hour seems to corroborate it. Yet the exact hour might be seen as a target in which case you employ the accusative, as this fragment of the Rosary shows:

Święta Maryjo, Matko Boża, módl się za nami grzesznymi
teraz iw godzinę śmierci naszej. Amen

[Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus,
nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen]

History / An American studying medicine in the PRL 1978-1985: my story [142]

Very amusing stories of yours, Rybnik, that show the double culture shock: one arising from the difference of country/society, the other from the difference of political and economic system. Yet I admire the path chosen by Lance: once he had decided to study a subject in a foreign country, why should he have got himself to continue as an American? One of the sillest things to do in a foreign country when having been given a chance to immerse totally in the culture and language of that country is not to immerse in them totally.

Actually, I once have been given such a chance, but for only six months . I did not speak Polish as I had no one to speak in Polish to. I did not read Polish as I had nothing to read in Polish there. I was totally immersed. I could really "sense" the country I sejourned in, and no other fellow Polish student "distracted" me from that in those six months. And I am happy to have gone through this experience. Anyway, your friend Lance was much more brave as he deliberately renounced to speaking English since the very arrival in Poland.

As I told you before, I met several American students on their medical course in Poland at the time when I myself was a Polish medical student in Warsaw. Mixed Polish-American liasons had emerged then as well. You may find it interesting to learn how some Polish guys commented with some envy on such a liason between an American lady student and a Polish male student, a certain Stanisław: "O, popatrz, stoi tam Stasio ze swoimi dolarami!" True, the dollar with its crazy black market rate of exchange was king in the 1980s in Poland. Luckily for all us now, the Polish and the American alike, it is no longer the case.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

So here is an amusing text from "Polska The Times" which aptly shows four more or less recently assimilated words of English origin in the Polish language.

Boskie kształty Pippy Middleton to zasługa specjalnych majtek
Wygląda na to, że świat długo jeszcze nie zapomni o ślubie na brytyjskim dworze. Siostra Kate Middleton Pippa w jednej chwili stała się gwiazdą, a kształt jej idealnych pośladków komentowały media na całym świecie. Kilku niezależnych ekspertów jest przekonanych, że Pippa Middleton podczas ślubu swojej starszej siostry użyła jakiegoś triku, dzięki któremu jej pupa prezentowała się tak spektakularnie. - Nie jestem do końca przekonana, czy pośladki Pippy sa całkowicie naturalne. Jeśli spojrzymy na jej pozostałe zdjęcia, na których jest na przykład w dżinsach, to można zauważyć, że ma dość płaski tyłek - skomentowała Lesley Reynolds Khan, właścicielka londyńskiego spa. [...] Od ślubu Wiliama i Kate chirurdzy plastyczni w Wielkiej Brytanii odnotowali 60-procentowy wzrost w liczbie chętnych na zabieg podnoszenia pośladków. [...] Pupa Pippy stała się także hitem chirurgii w Stanach Zjednoczonych. - Mam coraz więcej zamówien na pupę Pippy, to po prostu sensacja - twierdzi chirurg z Miami dr Constantino Mendieta.

Language / Words difference - 'ale' and 'przecież' [16]

This is so, Chaza! Except for the bad grammar, you've grasped the idea perfectly in those two sentences of yours.

Language / Words difference - 'ale' and 'przecież' [16]

This was a joke! Basically, 'lecz' is quite similar to 'ale'. However, not always you can replace one with the other, for example in this sentence: "Ale z Ciebie głuptas!" You can't say: "Lecz z Ciebie głuptas!"

Language / Words difference - 'ale' and 'przecież' [16]

Lekarzu, lecz się sam! This is a translation from the well known Latin proverb: medice, cura te ipsum!

Language / Instrumental - when "z" is necessary? [4]

Mam kłopoty z pieniędzmi. "Pieniądze" doesn't seem to be a tool here.
Zapłaciłem pieniędzmi (gotówką), a nie kartą. "Pieniądze" does seem to be a tool here.

Besides, there is the verb "have" in your example. Notice that you also say: Mam kłopoty ze swoimi dziećmi, and "dzieci" isn't a tool in this sentence.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Exactly, £yżko. The Polish would pronounce the letter "v" no other way than they pronounce the letter "w". Althought the "v" doesn't exist in the Polish alphabet, it would appear in every Polish dictionary since it is present in numerous borrowed words of predominantly Latin, but also French, German and English origin. Here are examples of words that begin with the "v":

va banque [French] - stawka o cały bank
VAT [English] - podatek od towarów i usług doliczny do ich ceny (the Polish equivalent is "PTU")
vel [German] - albo, czyli; Policja poszukuje Jana Kowalskiego vel Stanisława Jankowskiego
verte [Latin] - odwrócić kartkę
via [French] - przez jakąś miejscowość; jechał do Paryża przez Berlin
video - [Latin ->English] - wideo
VIP [English] - bardzo ważna i wpływowa osoba
vis [?] - pistolet używany w czasie okupacji hitlerowskiej

Any Polish monolingual dictionary will give you a tip on pronouncing the letter "v" in Polish:
v - litera alfabetu łacińskiego odpowiadająca brzmieniu polskich spółgłosek w lub f

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

So how do Poles pronounce the "v" in your view?

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

I shall add "eventy" [events] to the list. I've come across this English word in the Polish language only this week, and in two high-quality national newspapers at once! Never heard or seen it before! As it's made my day in the sense that I can't stop laughing whenever I recall it, here is how the word has appeared in print:

Podczas kampanii prezydenckiej Napieralski stosował infantylne zagrywki w stylu "przewodniczący rozdaje jabłka pod fabryką" bądź "przewodniczący, tak jak cała Polska, zbiera grzyby". [...] Partia, która kiedyś była silna swoimi strukturami, skupia się na jałowych i mało zabawnych eventach. (Rzeczpospolita, 18th of August; Lewica się zapętliła, radość w PO)

Jeszcze rok temu szef SLD stawiał na bliski kontakt z ludźmi, rozdawał jabłka, stawał o 5 rano pod fabrykami. Dzisiaj widac coraz mniej eventów. (Polska The Times - Magazyn, 19th of August)

Obviously, this usage has a lot of ironic connotation in it. Yet it shows that the term must have been present in the oral journalistic jargon for some time and has now gone into print. In the Polish language of the "pre-English era", however, they would typically use the term "przedwyborcze zagrywki" for that.

Language / Prefixes used with 'chodzić'- to walk. [12]

Not mentioned here yet are:

dochodzić/dojść,
podchodzić/podejść,
nadchodzić/nadejść,
obchodzić/obejść [Obszedłem Wawel dookoła / Obeszło mnie to tyle, co zeszłoroczny śnieg / Chaza i £yżko obchodzą dzisiaj imieniny]

Language / Would you find this way of presenting a language useful or confusing? [11]

It doesn't look great at all. Different "pieces" of culture picked up at random with no leading idea to the students of the language. Many of these pieces are simply inappropriate for foreign people studying Polish. Even advanced learners will probably find them too difficult to follow. But the very simple things that are presented look fine.

Language / "someday" / "kiedys" - Confirming some spelling and forms [11]

I'd say 'kiedyś' is more common and less specific, while 'pewnego dnia' is more "poetic" so to speak, or elegant ... plus beau pour moi!

Study / A List of Schools in Poland? [12]


Should it be 'in the Internet' or rather 'on the Internet" or both are acceptable? Can any of the native speakers of English here comment? Just a side-note question ...

Language / "someday" / "kiedys" - Confirming some spelling and forms [11]

Peter O. was just giving you "extended" examples. "Some day" alone would be "pewnego dnia" or "kiedyś"; "Sunday" as an answer to the "when" question would be "w niedzielę" (accusative case).

Language / Double meanings, Polish slang and embarrassment [49]


Even in the north of England you may occasionally find people who speak excellent standard English as did Reverened J.S. of the Scottish United Reformed Church that I was talking to... ;)


Neither do we as shown in your post on 'pierwsi' vs. 'piersi' ('pierwsi' will be pronounced 'piersi' in normal speech).

Language / Double meanings, Polish slang and embarrassment [49]



Both actions are indespensable if one wishes to pronounce the sounds of a foreign language correctly. You may listen to native speakers and it may be in vain for arriving at pronouncing a sound correctly.

"I pick up the pronunciation wrong at times, I need to be told" is an esential statement to this. Books on phonetics may explain the difference, but only repeated exercise will make you perfect.

Here is an example from my own experience: Back in the 1980s I was trying to tell someone in the north of England about our food rationing system under the communist regime in Poland at that time. I used the term "ration cards" in which term I was recklessly pronouncing the Polish 'a' in the word "ration". However, the 'a' we have in Polish is not at all like any one of the two 'a' they have in English. The person I was talking to was getting it as "Russian cards" rather than "ration cards", but he realized what I had meant and repeated "ration" and "Russian" to me several times to much amusement of other British persons engaged in that conversation, and to much embarassment for myself who not only read about this distinction before, but had once gone through a series of phonetic contrastive exercises on the one-year long BBC TV English language course "Slim John".

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]



As it is obvious that such abuse of confidence is being allowed on this forum and is so aptly explained by the principle of "free speech", as long as it does not violate the rules of the forum [and I don't really know if it does], Admin is OK.


Off they go with their clever investments! But honestly, people that Avalon mentions above know nothing about the stock market in Germany, neither do they know anything about the property market in Poland.

History / 1772 – Russia, Prussia and Habsburg Austria began the First Partition of Poland [9]


Why a war between Austria and Russia at that time should have been a more serious disaster for Europe than the partitions of Poland? The disappearance of Poland from the map of Europe resulted in the apperance of a common frontier between Russia and Germany. A natural bufor zone between them vanished and as soon as the three partitioning "black eagles" had stopped being preocupied with the threat of the Polish state being restored, they gripped themselves by their throats. The First World War broke out as a result and the Great October Revolution which followed in Russia devastated the country. Then the Stalinist terror, a fruit of this revolution, brought enormous suffering to the nation and left the country depopulated as a result of sending milions to "goulags". As a result of another world war, Germany has been brought to the Oder-Neise line and lost Silesia - which she conquered on Austria in 1741 - to Poland. As a result of the fall of communism, the western border of the Russian Federation had to be pulled back to its former border line with Poland as it is these days between Russia and Belorus, and it had to be pulled back even much furher east these days between Russia and Ukraine than it was in 1772 between Russia and Poland.

So why do you call the first partition of Poland a less serious disaster for your country than Russia going to war with Austria before 1772? Certainly, in the light of later developments in Europe, the anniversary of this first partition of Poland should not be a great day to remember for Russia!

History / Fascinating account by von Moltke-Prussian chief of Staff: Poland: A historical Sketch. [30]

At first, soon after 1772 and into the middle of the 19th century, the Austrians treated their newly acquired province just as a typical colonial power or a big colonial enterprise like "The East India Company" would treat a conquered land. The Austrians gave their new province the name of "Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria" which was soon nicknamed by its Polish inhabitants to "Kingdom of Golicja and Glodomeria", Kingdom of Nakedness and Starvation, because of enormous colonial exploitation of the province.

History / 1772 – Russia, Prussia and Habsburg Austria began the First Partition of Poland [9]

It would be very interesting to read your opinion on the question in what way that regional balance of power among those three partitioning powers that Wikipedia mentions had been distorted before 1772?

Language / Co słychać? Why not Co słychasz [23]

It is best to treat "słychać" as an autonomous expression, an equivalent of the "what's going on" or "what is your news" in English. Despite its striking similarity to both verbs "słyszeć" [to hear] and "słuchać" [to listen], one might say that in a way it has nothing in common with them. Many Polish speakers, however, will be inclined to call "słychać" defective verb with the infinitive as its only existing form, but others might argue that it is not one at all.

And indeed, my two-volume dictionary of Polish doesn't even list this word. It does list, on the other hand, another of the kind which is "widać". But this dictionary doesn't even call it a "verb"; it just gives the meanings and usages of it. In Russian, for example, the equivalent of the Polish expression "Widać, że ..." [It is obvious that ...] would be "Widno, szto..." with the word "widno" not possessing the Russian verb ending -t' as is the case with the Polish form 'wida-ć'.

Oto kilka przykadów zastosowania wyrażenia "słychać" oraz "widać":

- Co słychać u twoich rodziców? [Co nowego u twoich rodziców?]
- U nich nic nowego. Wszystko w porządku.

- Co teraz widać z okna [samolotu]? [Co teraz można zobaczyć z okna samolotu?]
- Widać ocean i zarys lądu. A teraz widać jakieś duże miasto ... tak, wyraźnie już widać Nowy Jork ... za chwilę wylądujemy na amerykańskiej ziemi!

USA, Canada / Going back to the Old Country of Poland after more than 25 years! (from USA) [249]

Or the proverb had really been modified in the communist times: Tym chata bogata, co ukradnie tata!

Travel / Avoid being ripped off by some exchange outlets in Krakow and elsewhere [44]

To be "ripped off" by kantors or shops is an art that has been carefully developed in order to pick up customers who are cavalier about the price just as the customer presented in the OP:


The strategies for "price targeting" techniques are excellently described in a book by Tim Harford, "The Undercover Economist", from which I am quoting this passage:

I once spotted a particularly inspired trick while on a search for crisps. My favorite brand was available on the top shelf in salt and pepper flavour and on the bottom shelf, just a feew feet away, in other flavours, all the same size. The top-shelf crisps cost 25 per cent more, and customers who reached for the top shelf demonstrated that they hadn't made a price-comparison between the two near-identical products in near identical locations. They were more interested in snacking.

And another one, as well from the US:

Amazon used to tailor their prices based on their records of individual customers. The company really was able to offer "money on" vouchers: two customers buing exactly the same product would be offered different prices based on what, if anything, they had previously bought. [...] Customers started to realize that if they deleted the cookies on their computers, they were offered different, often lower prices. And when they found out what the company was doing, there was an outcry. Like Costa [the coffee bars chain described earlier in the book], Amazon has promised not to do it any more.

Language / Need Advice On Polish-English language barrier (my Polish boyfriend and his family) [59]

Hi Mina,
There's something about the relation which is beyond your linguistic problems. It seems your bf's family is prepared to be nice and accepting, but only on their own terms. Your bf supports them in that. It is you who move from your place and it is you who is expected to learn Polish in Ireland. On the other hand, you who master six languages are unable to learn basic Polish. Frankly speaking, I feel your liason is on the good way to disruption in the near future, even if you are not ready to admit it to yourself. There are too many signs of it and you begin to feel it under your skin.

History / Polabia back to Slavs? [113]

No annexation or conquering lands again. The Polish-German present border is one of friendship and cooperation. Didn't Germany loose much in the long run as a result of its ever progressing "Drang nach Osten"? What is interesing today is discovering traces of the past. The Polabian Slavic language of the isle of Ruegen died out as late as in the 18th century. Some German linguists, however, did manage to write down, although imperfectly, many of its words and phrases. In 1799 in the church of the village of Rowy (near the city of Stolp/Słupsk, the last mass had been held in the Pomeranian (Kashubian) language. A Russian linguist recorded [the remains of] the Slavic language west of £eba before 1800 and he received an account of a woman who spoke Kashubian fluently, but complained to him that she had no one to talk to in this language; her children could only speak German ...

Po polsku / Polska jest dyktaturą? [129]


Zapewne to i racja. Ale czy honor zawsze daje się przeliczyć na pieniądze? Albo na podatki?

Po polsku / Polska jest dyktaturą? [129]

Jednak ten numer z poskarżeniem się przez rząd RP (nadal III-ciej RP) na ojca dyrektora do Stolicy Apostolskiej to kolejny pijarowski [nowy i ciekawy przymiotnik utworzony od angielskiego wyrażenia 'PR - Public Relations'] majstersztyk [od dawna funkcjonujący w polszczyźnie rzeczownik utworzony od niemieckiego rzeczownika 'Meisterstueck'] Platformy Obywatelskiej. Watykan, zaprawiony od setek lat w dyplomatycznych bojach, przytomnie odpowiedział, że nie będzie przywoływał do porządku szefa zakonu redemptorystów (papież jest wszakże najwyższym zwierzchikiem wszystkich zakonów), albowiem padre Rydzyk - wypowiadając się w Brukseli - nie reprezentował tam Stolicy Apostolskiej.

Padre Rydzyk przytomnie zwrócił uwagę, że nie nazywał państwa polskiego "totalitarnym", ale że określił jako 'totalitaryzm' działania rządu polskiego odmawiające mu dostępu do funduszy europejskich dla realizacji jego projektów geotermalnych.

Moim zdaniem, rząd czyni słusznie, gdyż padre R. nie raz dał się poznać jako zagorzały krytyk Unii Europejskiej, określając ją jako organizację diabelską. Gdyby padre miał choć trochę rozumu, o honorze nie wspominając, to nie zgłaszałby się po fundusze nielubianej przez siebie Unii, a skoro się zgłasza, to Platforma - jako partia rządząca - zmuszona jest dbać za niego o jego własny chrześcijański wizerunek.

Platforma na froncie pijarowskim nieustannie prze do przodu dyktując tematy do dyskusji i do sporów politycznych, takie jakie ona sama uważa za stosowne. Niedawno obwieszczała w mediach spektakularne transfery polityczne doń z innych partii, teraz zaczęła już sięgać murów Watykanu. Konkurenci i krytycy się zżymają, usiłują przebić się ze swoim przekazem, lecz to na nic - Platforma Obywatelska znowu zyskuje w kolejnych sondażach opinii publicznej. Krytycy na to: "to nic, zobaczycie co się stanie w wyniku nadchodzących wyborów". Osobiście sądze, że nic szczególnego się nie stanie. Zgodnie ze starym porzekadłem, ogromna kareta Platformy przybędzie w październiku do celu na Wiejskiej nie zważając ani trochę na psy na nią ujadające.

Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

And here is what sang Andrzej Rosiewicz in his famous song:
German ladies:
Niemki czyste, oczywiste, dobre są na żonę,
Miałbyś zawsze wysprzątane mieszkanie z balkonem,
Lecz jak czułbyś się w tym domu czystym, oczywistym,
Gdyby w kuchni ktoś przy dziecku mówił po niemiecku???
Czech ladies:
Czeszka tylko mnie rozśmiesza, chociaż lubię Czechów -
Gdybym wydał sie za Czeszkę, umarłbym ze śmiechu!
Polish ladies:
Najwięcej witaminy mają polskie dziewczyny
I to jest prawda, to jest fakt: dziewczęcy urok, wdzięk i takt...
I chyba w całym świecie piękniejszych nie znajdziecie.
Za jeden uśmiech oddałbym Chicago, Paryż, Krym!

In a way, he was of the same view as this famous Czech man ...

Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]


The bolded example is a proof that what seems to be diminutive to a Pole, is simply not. But 'morfologically' speaking, such an assumption is to a certain extent justified.

I shall perhaps conclude my participation to this discussion by reminding everyone: Laska to jest miłość, choć to śmiesznie brzmi!