News / Lech Walesa is not a democrat and this statement proves it. [24]


I'm not saying that you are the only one who makes the reading of this forum an increasingly boring exercise. There are more of you who think that the same old clashes may really interest anyone else than the persons directly involved.

Maybe the Guardian still takes some interest in Lech Wałęsa. But in present-day Poland, no one really cares for what he says or what he does. These days, his wife Danuta attracts a far larger audience than her famous husband. The actress and producer Krystyna Janda has recently even staged a play "Danuta W." based on Danuta Wałęsa's book "Secrets and dreams" (Marzenia i tajemnice), which had its Gdańsk premiere on 11th of October and its Warsaw premiere the following day.

Here's Krystyna Janda, one of the best Polish actresses, IMHO.

News / Lech Walesa is not a democrat and this statement proves it. [24]

Don't you have more interesting things to do than sitting on the forum all day and spread rubbish? You are simply boring and you contribute significantly that this forum has less and less users!

News / UN names Warsaw world's 19th most prosperous city [6]

I am amazed how Warsaw has changed since the fall of communism in 1989. But as I'm here almost every day and cannot see the "big change" at one go, I asked my Dutch friends who since 1989 have been visiting Warsaw every 5 years about this change, and yes, they said the Polish capital has truly transformed itself over all those years, although they said there were places which basically have remained the same as before, like the camp near Warsaw West railway station where they camp in their camper while in Warsaw.

UK, Ireland / Moving to London, need transport for luggage and furniture. [7]

Oxon, tell me why you are now Douglas please.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]

What's more, it is a Latvian immigrant who started to hate immigrants, while the moron Oxon alias Douglas says "Even Polish immigrants..." .

Language / When would one use nowy and when would he use nowego? [23]

I'm all for £yżko's remarks on Polish grammar here. His "newly-created" forms illustrate quite well what difficulties a foreigner to the Polish language may encounter.

But Lyzko's case shows once again that there is no point in learning declensions per se or words in separation. In every language, Polish in particular, but perhaps English not so much, it is preferable to learn words with their contextual prepositions or in cliché terms, such as "artyści scen polskich". In such an example you'll have the plural nominative of 'artysta', the plural genitive of 'scena' and the plural genetive of the adjective 'polski'.

Language / When would one use nowy and when would he use nowego? [23]

Here's a joke which nicely illustrates some of the difficulties with Polish declensions:

Baca mówi do turysty:
- Zabiłem dzisiaj pięćdziesiąt ćmów!
- Baco, nie mówi się "ćmów" tylko "ciem".
- A kapciem!

News / Polish bishop caught with 2,5 promille [45]


Not always, of course. Why do you think so?


As to the hour of his drunkness, the bishop was observing the old PRL communist tradition which assumed that no one should be drunk before 13:00, so the selling of alhohol was not allowed prior to that hour. The bishop then thought that driving drunk at 14:00 should perhaps be OK. [By the way, it seems to me that the Belgian standards are even more resrictive on that than those of the PRL since you assume that everyone has to be sober even as late as 14:00)

Apparently, the bishop seems to be an alcohol-dependent person which fact he openly admits by saying "my intention is to seek professional help as soon as possible".

Language / how to say "on" in this case? [3]

"Cała płonie" would be fine for both instances.

Language / Is it possible to learn Polish while not living in Poland? If yes, how? [37]


It doesn't seem to be a good method. I used to practice it with my French, and the more relaxed I was, the better it worked. The best results I was getting was when I tried to concentrate on something else than on understanding the meaning of what they are saying. For example, I was trying to pay attention to the gender of nouns or to noting the occurences of the preposition "à" in the phrases uttered. It directed my attention away from grasping the sense, so the sense came quicker and more easily. It's like when you try to fall asleep: the stronger you want to immerse into sleep, the less likely you are going to have it coming to you - you must simply start thinking about something else.


I think that TVP Polonia does this sort of thing.

A good method could be following a Polish series without subtitles that present good, distinctive contexts and a lot of conversation (which serieses usually do). One of these is "Świat według Kiepskich" on TV Polsat whose all characters except Ferdynand (Ferdek) Kiepski and Arnold Boczek use proper Polish. The wife of Ferdek, Halina, speaks typical standard Polish, while their neighbour, Marian Paździoch, shows the tendency to abuse the newspapers language with expressions typical for the print rather than for the every-day language, but that makes him really funny and isn't that bad for the learner of Polish.

Language / Is it possible to learn Polish while not living in Poland? If yes, how? [37]


They nearly always talk rubbish, so I wouldn't worry about it :-)

Travel / There is only one railway station in Warsaw Chopin airport? [12]

When I travel in trains I quite often see people bying their ticket when the conductor comes. I think the rule is you have to report to the conductor you don't have a ticket, but in practice it is safe to take a seat in the first carriage of the train and wait there until the conductor comes since he starts his round from the first carriage. There is an additional fee for issuing the ticket on the train, and last time (a month ago) I travelled from £ódź to Warsaw this fee was 9 zł.

Beware of the types of trains that start from the Chopin airport railway station. There are these which stop at Warsaw Central and those which stop at a nearby local station Warszawa Śródmieście from which you can walk underground to Warsaw Central. There are two companies that operate the line as well. One is KM (green-yellow trains), the other is SKM (red-yellow trains). The trains of the latter run much more often than those of the former. Their line S2 doesn't stop at Warsaw Central, but at Warsaw Śródmieście. Their line S3c ("c" for Central) does stop there, but the trains which are not marked with the letter c stop at Warszawa Śródmieście instead (same as line S2). I know it's a bit complicated, but all this should be marked accordingly at the PKP timetable available on-line in English.

edit: Singular tickets for each of the railway companies are different as far as I know, but a valid Warsaw transport card entitles you to travel on both types of trains.

UK, Ireland / First proper "Polish" School in the UK - The Next Stage of Ghettoisation [283]

Not too much, I think. If someone says "I am extremely good looking", people will easily remember who the person who said that was, as such a statement is extremely rare in the PF circles!!!

Travel / There is only one railway station in Warsaw Chopin airport? [12]

You can't buy a train ticket to £ódź at the Chopin airport railway station. The best is to travel to Warsaw Central Station (only one stop or two local stops beyond Warsaw West) and buy the ticket there, either in a machine or at a ticket office); you may also buy a ticket on a Warsaw-£ódź train.

Language / What has been the hardest language for you to learn? [81]



By saying that you are joking, I meant you were referring to the basic communicative level. English is easier for a Pole at a basic level, in my view, than vice versa. A Pole attempting to speak English at that level has much less chance to make a mistake with the verb or the noun than an English person attempting to speak Polish as English has virtiually no declension and only the third person singular of the verb is conjugated. But the farer you advance, the English language is getting more difficult for the Polish speaker whereas the Polish language is becoming less difficult for the English one.

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]

£yżko, please accept that phrases like "Czy mogę zobaczyć jadłospis?" or "Czy pan chciałby zobaczyć jadłospis?" are not calques of English into Polish. These are natural Polish phrases, the opinion of a certain Utopia on the matter will not change it, and you yourself have just given proof of it by quoting a real-life conversation with a Polish waitress. Believe me or not, the waitress was not using any calque! There are simply several ways of expressing onerself in a language, and a "Rozmówki" book will give you only one version of it, perhaps most typical in a given context. That doesn't mean that other ways of expressing oneself in their own native language will be proof of second-language interference!

Ludzie, na miłość Boską, uczcie się myśleć samodzielnie zamiast dawać się wodzić za nos Utopii!

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]

I was quoting your own words, actually, with which you were kind to call an anonymous water/waitress.

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]


Agreed, but only if you were this "silly smart ass who I might come across one day". I cannot imagine any other waiter or waitress who would just do that.

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]


I totally disagree. The first one as well as the second one may serve as one or the other. I would have never ever thought in all my life that when askijng the waiter "Czy mogę zobaczyć jadłospis?", I would be asking him for a permission to see it. It is just a polite command since I can never imagine he would dare reply to me: "Nie, nie może Pan zobaczyć zobaczyć jadłospisu" (if it really was a permission, he would feel free to refuse to say "no" if he wanted). It would simply be his duty to show it to me, so please stop talking rubish here and dzielić włos na czworo!

Language / What has been the hardest language for you to learn? [81]

That's right. I also think he's joking this time.

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]

I am of the same opinion as Magdalena. The author of the blog undoubtedly (provocatively even) uses outstandingly diffferent registers to enhance the final effect. Look at that:


Pierdolę [vulgar], c'nie [experimental usage], wytworny [literary] dress code [anglicism], jełam [archaic] - it's amazing to have assembled all these in one sentence only!

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]

Sentences of the type "Czy mogę zobaczyć jadłospis/pokój [w hotelu]?" are somewhat exigent in character. It is natural to ask them if something is missing (for example, a menu card at your table in a restaurant which you expected to be given immediately) or if the request goes beyond the typically expected contents of an issue (you first want to have a look at the room in a hotel you are going to take).

Language / which one sounds better? widziałem/zobaczyłem [30]

Anyway, £yżko made a very good point here illustrating the difference between the usage of the two verbs "widziec" and "zobaczyć" and I wouldn't be so principal on the use of "Czy mogę zobaczyć jadłospis?" in a restaurant. This question sounds perfectly natural in Polish; I myself wouldn't hesitate to ask it in case the waitress Dziuna, as you were so kind to name her producing thus an excellent sample of the patronising style of yours, would be explaining what they have on the menu, but with still no menu on the table.

Language / What has been the hardest language for you to learn? [81]

My guess is that Spanish would be easy for a Pole to learn. I wouldn't say that about Russian (I learned it at school for 8 years altogether); it's similar to Polish so it may often be very tricky for a Pole, on the other hand people tend to think that once it's so similar it must be very easy which is not true as it differs from Polish in many respects.


I've never attempted Czech or Slovakian, but yes, that might be true. As to Silesian and Kashubian, I agree that the latter is a different language, but the former is certainly a dialect of Polish, quite difficult to grasp for a speaker of standard Polish when it is spoken quickly (apart from that, there are many sub-dialects within the Silesian dialect). But when I recently read a text advertising a computer game in Silesian, I had no problems whatsoever to comprehend it fully with the exception of one or two dialect words. I am certainly not able to have this full comprehension of a text in Kashubian. Some would like to declare Silesian a separate language for purely political reasons which is quite imaginable. The difference between Polish and Silesian may perhaps be compared to the difference between Czech and Slovak; one is easily understood by the members of the other language's community group.

History / Why did the PRL keep many symbols of Poland's 2nd Republic? [12]

She doesn't seem to have lost any stones. What a pity!

History / Welcome to Lemmingrad! [59]


A good joke! As to the title of the thread - very witty as it bears this obvious resemblance to the Soviet name of the City on the Neve.

I think the name "leming" is a sort of revenge for the name "moherowy beret" once given by Jan Maria Rokita, one of the three co-founders of the Civic Platform (now, together with another co-founder Andrzej Olechowski, outside the party) to the typical voter of PiS.

But for me personally, the name "lemming" will always be associated with Margaret Thatcher, the milk snatcher, and the brave policies she once persued as Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Here is why:

(Margaret Thatcher) - People keep saying to me that my policies are wrong, that they are derisive, and that they will wreck British industry ... I know ... But they are ever so brave! We in the Conservative Party may be wrong, but we are wrong with so much more courage than any other party! Let us take our lead from Nature ... I've always admired this brave little beast, the lemming. Yes, they jumb over cliffs and eventually get drowned by water, but at least they are not for ever complaining!!!

Language / Polish Grammar quiz/puzzles: [47]


To sum up the discussion shortly: the following equation: "the transitive verb creates the passive voice for itself" is not true for all Polish verbs, but it's true for the majority of them

Language / Polish Grammar quiz/puzzles: [47]

And that's interesting really. Why should 'obejśc' be an intransitive verb once it needs a direct object, something which you yourself have demonstrated in your example: Jan obszedł (verb) jezioro (direct object / dopełnienie bliższe) ?

History / Poland-Lithuania would we be better off together? [16]


Again, the names of the past do not match the names of the present, though they have some reference one with another. The "Lithuanian" of the past seems to convey much more difference than similarity to the "Lithuanian" of the present. To support this, it is enough to say that the official language of the Grand Duchy was not even Lithuanian, but Belorussian, to be replaced later on by Polish.

I think that contemporary Lithuanians view the costruct of the Commonwealth as common, but which in the course of time had swung to the Slavic/Polish side too much. Once in Lithuania, I bought their school history book in the Lithuanian language in which they presented the kings and grand dukes exactly in the order that we do in our books in Polish, but what was more surprising, they presented them exactly like a certain Cracovian painter called Jan Matejko painted them.

So all in all, the Grand Duchy as a state was much more Slavic than Lithuanian. Contemporary Lithuania is only a tiny part of the former Grand Duchy with some pretentions to be even more than it really is.

But I agree with the modern Lithuanians in that they fear their language might have been on the path of extinction because of the expanding Polish. Not even Polish at some point of time, the linguistic border between Lithuanians and Belorussians had already moved northwards in the times of Adam Mickiewicz. Czesław Miłosz, a Lithuanian-born Pole, if I may say so, admitted that the Poles of the Vilnius region are genetically Lithuanians rather than they are Polish, but - in contrast to the Lithuanian authorities - he didn't want to see them re-lithuanized. It should be noted, however, that a certain number of the Polish-speaking gentry in Lithuania had decided at the end of the 19th century to abandon the path of Polishness and step up the language path of ethnic Lithuanians, not so for themselves, but for their children. You may read about it in the interviews of Tomasz Venclova, a Lithuanian-born (1937) Lithuanian with a native command of Polish, who himself recalls how his relatives used to turned to Polish at home each time they did not want him as little boy to follow their converations. He was extremely angry with that, so he started to learn Polish which was not at all difficult for him in the then linguistic environment of Lithuania.

News / A new AWS (Poland Solidarity Movement)? [54]


I think you are wrong with it again. Those people are psychologically different type than you think. I remember your question after the Breivik's killings in Norway, you asked then "when will that happen in Poland?" (with obviously some hope in your question that if it happens it would be just convenient to say "you see, Poland is bloody ready for that, too!"). Nothing of that sort happened in Poland yet, but there have happened other instances of "multiply" killing in the West.

Anyway, quite a number of people are capable of murdering a president or a prime minister. But who killed JFK if it wasn't the Smolenkists of the USA?


I don't think that JK is homosexual, but even if he is, he is certainly not "known homosexual". People who are unmarried at a certain age cannot be judged to be homosexual on the sole basis that they are unmarried. There are people who are homosexual and married to someone of the opposite sex, and there are people who are unmarried, but never had sexual contacts with anyone of their own sex. I think the "Tagesspiel" revelations were totally unjustified.