UK, Ireland / Help Renouncing UK Citizenship and gaining Polish one [24]


Apparently there was a nasty little ploy a few years ago for Polish citizens leaving Poland. When Poles who'd declared new nationality came to visit Poland they suddenly found they were not recognised as ex-Poles by the Polish government and still had to pay the tax.

Radek Sikorski was instrumental in it, according to wikipedia (so it must be true!):

During the latter appointment, Sikorski became notorious in the Polish expatriate community, Polonia, for designing and promoting a particularly strict policy regarding Polonia's citizenship status in Poland.[3][4] As a result of that policy, Poland refused to recognize the acquired citizenships of Polish emigrants, including hundreds of thousands of recent refugees from Communism and their children, and insisted that they be subject to all obligations of Polish citizenship, while at the same time making it impossible to renounce such citizenship because of an extremely cumbersome administrative procedure.

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


Exactly. Presumably the Soviets used the excuse of it being a military ship they were torpedoing.

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]

Exactly. Not only were they poor in English but they probably had little experience of industrial city life, so things which seemed obvious to a yankee towny might have been totally alien to a newcomer from some pinprick village in east poland.

I recall hearing a story of a Jewish immigrant to US in the 1930's who amazed his relatives because he knew how to drive a car... They thought Europeans didn't have them. It would have been even worse in the 1800s.

Language / English borrowings in Polish [38]


I've heard 'sorki'


You might find it a bit more common than you think. Lots of whiter kids in Black areas use Jamacian patois phrases (for example) and only a few years ago half the kids in UK were talking about "barbies this arvo" and "chundering" because of Australian soap operas. At one time a lot of British soldiers used German based words in their language because they'd been in Germany.


Sorry, but that is typical Polish self-flagellation. You seem to have an idea that no other country has that. Every foreigner seems to think that every british schoolkid is taught keats, Milton, Chaucer and Shakespeare in the cradle. Nope, we all thought it was boring too, just like Polish kids being force-fed Sienkiewicz and Mickiewicz at school think it's boring.

But watch when a local theatre does a crap version of Słowacki, Mickiewicz, or something like Wesele, and the theatres will be full. How many films have been made recently based on old classics (Ogniem i Mieczem, Pan Tadeusz etc) and have been very successful?

How often are visitors reminded Sienkiewicz won a nobel, or that Czesław Miłosz or Kapuścinski were internationally famous writers, or that Conrad (OK, he was writing in English) was the first major novelist of the 20th century?

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


I've just finished reading the wartime writings of Vasily Grossman, a Soviet novelist and war correspondent. Even he, who greatly admired the Russian soldiers he served alongside, commented that they changed for the worst when they crossed the Russian border. Considering these were his comrades and friends, he even mentions stoties of mass rapes, including one where the woman's family allegedly asked for her to be allowed a break to feed her crying baby.

He even mentions how Soviet soldiers raped Russian girls who had been POWs.

The ironic thing about the sinking of civilian ships is that that was exactly the charge used against the Germans in WW1 to bring the US into the war.

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

There are stories of the German refugees walking over a frozen lake, only to be straffed by the Soviets. Locals say the eels were very fat for the next few years.

This page gives details of the other ships sunk in the baltic. The number of casualties is shocking.

ahoy.tk-jk.net/macslog/TragedyatSea.html

Law / Using Paypal to send money to Poland [12]


Don't bet on it. While it might be easily found, there's also the chance it might not. I've had very frustrating experiences finding one set of information but not others. Sometimes one book might be available but not the other.

Don't forget to check marriages and death books as well as birth records.

Good luck.

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Gustloff_(ship)

banzaj.pl/Wilhelm-Gustloff-i-najwieksza-katastrofa-morska-5782.html

Genealogy / Why the escape in the 1800s ? Searching for my family roots. [25]

There was also the little matter of Napoleonic wars, with Napoleon invading Prussia and Russia in the first two decades of that century.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars

Also, the fact Poland was carved up and removed from the map in the mid 1790's might be part of the answer. I imagine a few folk wanted to be elsewhere after that.

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

Isn't there a memorial by the beach in Gydnia? I seem to remember seeing one.

UK, Ireland / Characters of Polish in Wales (writing a novel) [3]

I was recently in Wales, near Llangollen. The area around there is very strong Welsh speaking. Apparently there were a lot of Poles in that area. SOME of the locals, allegedly, were not happy about the influx.

I was told this by a local woman (English) who worked in a historic monument in the area. Probably there is another side to the story, of course.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

I said that ages ago, but you called her insulting and racist for simply asking a genuine question.

Life / Polish "Mall Girl" Culture? [125]

It's the church's fault for not doing more to appeal to these girls. If they had sexy, young priests who played hip-hop, they might go.\

I suppose 'scoialism' is part of Western politics. It's hard for them to appreciate that the kind of system in Poland could be compared with the kind of socialism they have/had in UK or France. Therefore, it 'must' have been communism.


agreed, especially when you can count the track marks up their arms.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

Great stuff, eh? have you seen Anthony Hopkins' Othello?

Of course, Shakespeare couldn't have been knowingly anti-semitic, because it was highly unlikely he'd have knowingly ever met a Jew ;-)

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


Shylock:
I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands,
organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same
food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,
heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter
and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If
you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the
rest, we will resemble you in that.
The Merchant Of Venice Act 3, scene 1, 58-68

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


Maybe it is an innocent question, after all, if she has Polish friends maybe she has learned how not to be racist from them.


Inver made any agreement. I simply pointed out (before you) that the OP might experience behaviour which in UK would be considered racist but in Poland MIGHT be due to ignorance about such things.

I am on topic. OP mentioned stories of Blacks being 'disrespected'. name calling may be a symptom of racism. If someone shouts "N*gger" across the street at somebody, why would it be natural to assume there is no racist taunt involved?

History / How was Poland compensated after World War 2 [47]


They were allowed to kick out lots of Germans (some of whom had lived there for centuries... or rather the family/community).

The lovely soviets built a lovely phallic symbol in warsaw to remind Poland how they'd been 'cultured'.

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]


Actually, it was an Italian news article which gave the world that story.

The Polish cavalry DID charge an armoured unit, successfully, but it was not a tank unit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

So, according to this thread, a mixed race girl can come to Poland, possibly be called all sorts of names both to her face and behind her back but it is OK because Poles are allegedly innocent to the fact they might be racist (cos it doesn't exist in Poland) and it is all the fault of the non-Pole for being an oversensitive Westerner... (and it would be offensive and 'racist' to suggest otherwise).

Have I understood it correctly?

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]


Funny, I've heard enough Scottish jokes. I can tell you some, if you like.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

I think Jem got quite good value for her first post on PF!

Anyway, goodnight guys

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

Interesting, one of the major novelists of 20th Century, who wrote about Black African tribesmen in Africa was Polish (Conrad).

One of the major figures of early anthropology, and pioneer of long-term fieldwork (because he had to sit on an island because he had Austrian citizenship) was Polish, and wrote such classics as "The sex-lives of savages".

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


to be fair, I think that was a joke on ekidu's part. I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.


Yeah, like all those Normans and Gaels. A bit beyond the pale, really.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

I wasn't actually thinking of Poland in this case, but UK... still, what you say is right and reinforces what i said earlier about the OP having heard stories.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


But the sign here also has a large picture of Hitler next to it.


Sorry, I was referring to the grafitti accompanying the swastika. Quite ironic, really.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


I'd forgotten that. I think 'Polska dla Polaków' is served with rice and sweet and sour sauce too. ;-)


Good point. I know people who have never (knowingly) met Jews, but are still fiercely antisemitic.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. What passes for racism in UK is not necessarily racism here because the concepts and 'knowledge' (ie, that n*gger is an offensive word) is not as widely known.


True, but there is still a swastika carved on the door of my local Chinese restaurant.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]

Jesus people!

How's this for a scenario.

The girl hears some stories that Poles are racist in their own country and they disrespect Blacks.

Which would you prefer...

a) She just believes them and lives life thinking it's true. Doesn't visit Poland and learns nothing.

b) She asks, tries to learn and broaden her mind and decides to come to Poland to find out. Learns that Poles do not cut the horns off their heads when they cross the border... because they don't have any.

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


Have I seen any? Well there was Roman Giertych on TV last week;-) But you miss my point. It is, of course, a fallacy but many people believe it. When I was first working over here it was amazing how many people commented, on my return, about how anti-semitic Poles were, people who should have known better. One was an anthropology professor, who is supposed to teach about being open-minded and non-ethno-centric!

What I'm suggesting is that if someone who has never been to a country hears stories from others who have (or worse, others who have heard the stories) then how else are they to get positive information?


Depends if they were calling you an "f*ck*ng polack!" while they were doing it. If so, yes.


maybe I'm being a bit freudian here...

But there's a difference between asking if it is safe to be a white, Polish tourist in Nigeria and asking if you'll be eaten. How many Polish (grand)parents were convinced their little ones would be sold into the sex-slave trade when they went to Britain? I knew one. then there were all the reports about farm workers being maltreated in italy etc. Would you blame someone for asking about that kind of thing?

Life / Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea? [149]


Don't be too hard on the girl. Like she says, she's got Polish friends but she's experienced some racism and heard some stories. It's no different to Polish newspapers telling stories of how the nasty, horrible British hate all the poor Poles. I keep getting asked if it is true that the British hate Poles, because someone's cousin's colleague's friend was allegedly refused service in a shop somewhere.

If you want evidence of racism, how about the Morrocan actor who played at a festival near where I live and was seriously beaten up by two drunken villagers, who used racist abuse whilst doing it.

How about all the Jews who are convinced if they visit poland they'll be attacked by the raging anti-semitic hoardes?

Jemma is asking a perfectly valid question and has been sensible enough to come to a place where she might get some useful information. isn't that better than just believing the stories?