History / Religion Of Children From Interfaith Marriages In The Kresy areas of Poland [3]

I came across this published 2014 thesis titled "Religion, Space and Movement on the Polish Belarusian Frontier" which seems relevant to the information you are seeking:

Source: research.gold.ac.uk/10641/1/ANT_thesis_JoyceAE_2014.pdf

From what I read it is only the clergy who are really concerned with conversions particularly the Orthodox Church due to their significantly declining numbers.

Also, several years ago Polish director Andrzej Fidyk did a film titled "Białoruski walc" ("Belarusian Waltz"). I can't find a full version of it online to link here but I distinctly recall a scene when the central (and eccentric) character Alexander Pushkin (a dissident artist with Belarusian nationalist sentiment) was discussing his forthcoming second marriage and he told the Orthodox priest that although they would have the wedding in an Orthodox church he did not want his wife to convert from her Catholic faith because it was part of her heritage. The film itself was about other matters but it was an interesting if only brief insight regarding ongoing attitudes towards religion in Kresy.

News / Poland - Third World Country?? [300]


This is completely untrue.

Poland is smartly using its resources to MODERNIZE its infrastructure. All intelligently governed nations do this. A modernizing economy doesn't make it a developing country.

Indeed, the World Bank defines a developing country "...one in which the majority lives on far less money-with far fewer basic public services-than the population in highly industrialized countries. Five million of the world's 6 billion people live in developing countries where incomes are usually under $2 per day and a significant portion of the population lives in extreme poverty (under $1.25 per day). "

Source: web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTSITETOOLS/0,,contentMDK:20147486~menuPK:344190~pagePK:98400~piPK:98424~theSitePK:95474,00.html

It further refines this by characterizing developing countries as experiencing mass migrations from rural areas to poorly equipped cities; a largely uneducated population where hunger is common; and unsustainable government debt.

The World Bank further categorizes Poland as being in the group of "high income" countries.

Source: data.worldbank.org/country/poland

Granted many will regard "high incomes" as being those earned by workers in finance, entertainment and technology sectors but globally this isn't the case.

Regarding EU budget transfers Poland has been a net recipient of money over the years and did receive €17.44 billion in EU funding in 2014 alone.

But that's not to say Poland isn't contributing anything back.

Also according to EU figures, "In 2014 POLAND contributed €3.52 billion to the EU budget and collected €572 million in customs and farm trade duties on the EU's behalf, of which it retained 25% as an administrative fee."

Poland also contributed €294.4 million towards the UK's €6.07 billion rebate.

Source: europa.eu/about-eu/basic-information/money/expenditure/index_en.htm

News / Attack on Poland's judicial independence [50]


Who is the author then? Why the need for anonymity if, according to you, this blog "...in fact...reflects the views of a huge number of people, perhaps even the majority here in Poland."?

News / Attack on Poland's judicial independence [50]


Yet another admission from you that you know nothing about me.


Oh, so you know the author personally. So why then does this "Polish citizen" (according to you only) post anonymously when criticizing the current elected Government? And why are you promoting on here and not the author of this blog? Are you this "dandy" character?

Indeed, it looks like just another example of anti-Polish astroturfing from non-Poles like yourself.

News / Attack on Poland's judicial independence [50]


The blog this article comes from has no merit since it is written by someone who isn't even Polish (like the OP of this thread). The anonymous author "thedandy15" even admits "I can read and speak fairly fluent Polish..." and uses a propaganda banner that demands "Poland For All" (with the Polish flag lost among German, British and EU flags) in truly shameless Fifth Column carpetbagging one-worlder ideological style.

News / World's 'most wanted man' (a Pole) found working at British Subway restaurant [43]


Indeed, it's like taking coal to Newcastle.

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


Yet none are provided. So typical of you.


Ah yes, lifting phrases out of context because you can't stand that I so easily knocked down your sad attempt to support your argument. You wanted me and other readers to believe that the House (your representatives) would never put its credibility at stake and this should then give credence to Pravda's own propaganda. But the House (your representatives) got it wrong in 1945 and then again in 2002. So the House (your representatives) shows consistently, generation after generation, that it has no credibility particularly when it comes to the affairs of other nations. They have shown time and again both in their debates and with their votes that they will believe anything no matter how boldfaced the lie. This must be a British thing because as you know you are always trying to peddle some nonsense on here but only your fellow carpetbaggers are willing to put what's left of their own tattered reputations on the line and support what's left of your own tattered reputation. No one else ever believes you.


Wrong as usual. It's clear though that you are unsettled that your attempt to promote this book on PF is now falling apart.


Hansard transcribing the Parliamentary debates in 1945 which cited a English language newspaper which cited Radio Moscow citing Pravda. Yes, empty heads must surely make for great echo chambers.



Legitimate sources only please. We've already completely ruled out Pravda, Radio Moscow, Hansard, the House of Parliament, Jewish tabloids and Scottish conspiracy websites.

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


The only "interesting links" (your term) which you provided were some conspiracy blog and a low-circulation Jewish tabloid. And the tabloid's article was written by the same guy pushing his book on the subject. So basically it's just an advert.

And this book appears to be based on an early 20th century English language newspaper article quoting Radio Moscow which was quoting Pravda.

So which "contemporary" Russian newspaper are you referring to? Izvestia?

Yeah, here is an old, funny and very accurate saying the Russians had about Pravda and Izvestia:

"v Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy" (In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth).

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda
Hilarious!

Anyway, don't bother listing your "contemporary" Russian newspaper because everyone in Poland knows that the Russian media has always been hostile towards Poland and seeing them regurgitating their own bile is fully expected no matter what era it is.


Oh, you mean the same House of Commons (your representatives of course) which held long debates and then went ahead and voted in favor of invading Iraq based on a pack of lies. Yes, yes, and how did that decision turn out for everyone? LOL! Okay then, do feel free to keep fooling yourself that the House must have been right too about the propaganda Pravda was intentionally feeding them and the West back in the day.


Lies and no surprise then that you haven't (or rather can't) provide any source showing direct written quotes from him stating so.


How much of a discount did you get for promoting it on PF?


LOL!

Yeah, let's take a direct quote then from the lies propagated by Pravda back in 1945 regarding this "Hell Camp":

"The Polish Fascist concentration camp system, notorious before the Germans started Buchenwald and other camps, was preserved when the Poles fled from Poland."

Well, that doesn't sound very scholarly now does it? But according to you this utter BS is still "reporting the facts" whether it is quoted from Pravda or repeated decades later by useful idiots in the media suffering from acute and incurable Polonophobia.

So now let's take a look at undisputed facts and in particular what Pravda and others like yourself have deliberately and conveniently brushed aside because it doesn't fit your classical and neo-bolshevik narrative.

The Soviet GULAG system had its origins in the early 1900's and ran for most of the 20th century. It unjustly imprisoned tens of millions of people and savagely worked millions of innocent people among them literally to death!

One should note very well that when this canard from Pravda was propagated in 1945 the Soviets had already been in full swing repressing Polish citizens; in particular from 1939 - 1946.

The Soviets unlawfully imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Poles, murdered thousands more, and on top of this deported millions of Poles all across the USSR many of whom died along the way and countless others who would never see Poland again.

But you don't care about these revolting Soviet atrocities done on an industrial scale, these systematic and unforgivable Soviet crimes against humanity.

It's upsetting to think that you claim to work around Polish children.

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


Yes, in retrospect Soviet propaganda can be dismissed for either being absurd or pernicious. It's good to see that you are finally coming around and realizing this for yourself. Certainly it has been your exposure to Poles and your desire to emulate us in thought, word and deed that has helped to remove the leftist scales from your eyes. Your efforts for self-improvement should be a source of personal pride. Keep at it.

But by the way, what do you think is the motive behind a tabloid like The Jewish Chronicle echoing an obscure but nevertheless obvious Soviet lie about Poland after all these decades?

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


Yes, extremely telling; particularly The Jewish Chronicle's article.

Did anyone else read the image they used to base their anti-Polish smear piece on?

Take a look: Soviet Propaganda

Yes, indeed, this red herring was cooked up back in the day by none other than the official propaganda mill of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union: "Pravda".

And The Jewish Chronicle's pathetic and completely unbelievable attempt at trying to sound neutral with the caption "How the 'papers' broke the story of camp conditions" is even more laughable.

No surprise at all then to see one of the Fifth Column agitators spreading this toxic communist manure on here.

News / Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy. [2554]


Why not become a citizen journalist and grab a video camera and confront both of them with your questions? Oh, that's right, you aren't a citizen and can't converse in Polish. Still, it's high time you took your online activism to the streets.

I look forward to your forthcoming video posts attempting to approach these public figures you dislike so much even if just for the entertainment value alone!

History / Chance of Lwów once again became coming part of Poland [344]


Poles that who!

Maria Krystyna Habsburg, whose father was born Archduke Karl Albrecht of Austria, was laid to rest in the town of Zywiec, southern Poland

"Born in Zywiec in 1923, Maria Krystyna Habsburg belonged to a branch of the dynasty that had come to identify with Poland in the late 19th century, in spite of the Habsburgs' role in carving up the country between Austria, Prussia and Russia the previous century. When the Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed in 1918 following the First World War, Maria Krystyna Habsburg's family took up Polish citizenship, and her father served in the Polish Army."

Source: thenews.pl/1/6/Artykul/115060,Princess-of-Altenburg-laid-to-rest-in-southern-Poland

And this very interesting video from 2012 shows the impressively large turnout put on for the archduchess's funeral full of pomp and cultural trappings; complete with a Polish military honour guard and Polish citizens paying their respects (even some wearing traditional folk dress):



Certainly much nicer than Jaruzelski's send off.

News / Poland to be Booted from Schengen - a Border Security Issue or Tusk's Revenge on Polish Voters for PO Defeat? [36]


Not at all.


Politics (Noun) - the practice and theory of influencing other people.

That fact that the idea for a mini-Schengen was even brought up (particularly by a party siting in a ruling coalition) means citizens and their elected representatives share the same sentiment. And it certainly isn't a topic which will only find favor in Holland. Even if there are others out there who don't see eye to eye on the issue they are at least willing to listen and discuss it. That's how politics works. Ideas; lobbying for those ideas; gaining traction with those ideas; ideas eventually becoming policy. Why else do opt-outs even exist then for some member states (including Poland) on some EU matters? Why no harmony whatsoever then on the processing and placement of migrants? Because local, regional and national politics matter and they definitely shape and affect the entire EU enterprise.

A mini-Schengen may be unthinkable for some but it was effectively in place anyway until recently under the Dublin Regulations regarding migrant flows through those peripheral countries on Europe's underbelly.

Now that place like Germany and Sweden are groaning under the presence of migrants and the spiraling associated financial costs it is not surprising that local parties are devising ways to staunch and divert the problem - even if it means attempting to create a broader Romano-Slavic buffer zone around a Franco-Germanic speaking core. And it stands a reasonably good chance too considering that the latter group has historically been the higher contributor to the EU budget compared to the former group.


You seem to have completely misrepresented the actual facts about your character then with your employer.

News / Poland to be Booted from Schengen - a Border Security Issue or Tusk's Revenge on Polish Voters for PO Defeat? [36]


Why when you've quoted from the Daily Mail yourself only two months ago?

Example: https://polishforums.com/language/collins-intermediate-level-audio-course-75559/#msg1498605


Oh, so your referencing the Daily Mail numerous times on here in the past and as recently as July 2015 means what then exactly regarding the validity of your posts?

Example: https://polishforums.com/news/poland-wave-designer-drug-poisoning-dopalacze-75091/#msg1490073

OK. Anyway, regarding the map, which major news outlet has never had to issue a minor correction to a published story?



Indeed to you both. The tabloid press's no-holds-barred approach to journalism means politicians and their machinations will be shown as much deference and discretion as would a convicted paedophile rapist or married Hollywood actor caught with a prostitute. I even saw an interview once with a BBC programmer admitting that they check the Daily Mail first in order to follow their lead on the most important social or political topic being reported.

Anyone can do a search regarding the "mini-Schengen" scheme I started in this thread. Reuters now has their own an article online about it and even several Polish language news sites are citing the same DM article I referenced.

News / Presidential elections and debates 2015 Poland [472]

What a topsy-turvy place the world has become.

Let's not forget that only a couple of decades ago Poland suffered terribly under the heavy and brutal yoke of communism where all real decisions regarding the economy and even movement and treatment of her people were ultimately decided far away by unelected party bureaucrats in Moscow.

Fastforward to today and there are people actually arguing that Polish politicians not playing along to hand Poland's sovereignty over to unelected Eurocrats far away in Brussels is now regarded as "left wing" and even "interventionist."

The propaganda won't work this time and that is why Duda won.

There is nothing wrong with Polish politicians putting Poles and Polish interests first.

As the saying goes, all politics is local.

Therefore, there is no reason for Poland to bind itself closer to Brussels just for the sake of fulfilling nightmare internationalist socialist objectives being hidden behind the false banner of pro-market federalism.

Indeed, Poles went through a very tough period of "shock therapy" in the early 1990s in order to transform and grow Poland's economy and keep itself fiscally sound. And Poland made even further structural changes in order to satisfy the requirements of EU membership so as not to be a burden on existing member states.

It is simply bizarre that anyone would even think that it is "conservative" for Poland to relinquishing control of its political and economic sovereignty over to Brussels.

What's in it for Poles?

Yet another massive bill to help bail out Greece's leftist profligacy?

How about being granted permission from Brussels for increased social spending in Poland but only if it used towards feeding and housing Juncker's quota of tens of thousands of third world economic migrants crossing illegally into the EU every year?

These are not agenda items which Poles made such great sacrifices for in the past with both their wallets and literally their lives.

News / Presidential elections and debates 2015 Poland [472]


Duda is not left wing. So what are YOU talking about?

News / Presidential elections and debates 2015 Poland [472]


The wailing and gnashing of teeth on here over the results is a real treat! And no surprise it is being expressed by the Self-Important Leftwing Contigent of the Carpetbagger Brigade - you know, the same ones who on any given day would say they are all for free elections until of course the vote doesn't swing to the left.

But Poland is a true democracy and the will of the Polish people has been expressed at the ballot box.

The best man won!

Life / Foreigners in Poland: migrants, immigrants and expats [13]


Migrants move around and this is transient and limited. They also do not enjoy the same rights to work and representation as citizens do. But this is OK with most migrants because they are only there for a limited time to do menial, lower paying jobs which the native population prefers not to do since there are better opportunities to be had which admitted migrants like yourself would be restricted and unqualified from doing anyway.


Yes, and this is something completely different from being in the category of a migrant or immigrant. I'm glad to see you are finally coming around and following the thread.


As an admitted migrant to Poland you don't get define who is and who isn't a Pole. The Polish government does. Indeed, if returning Poles from abroad would be subject to immigration controls as you claim then why as I previously pointed out in another thread did the Polish government recently offer consular services to evacuate and resettle Poles residing for decades in now war-torn Ukraine? Face it, the Polish government doesn't regard the Polish diaspora as being a bunch of foreigners like yourself.

Life / Foreigners in Poland: migrants, immigrants and expats [13]


Puerto Ricans are US citizens. They are not migrants. They simply change their residency if they move to another area under US jurisdiction.

Next you'll be claiming there are Scottish migrants living in England and Wales and Silesian migrants living in Pomorskie and Mazowieckie.


Yes, you are definitely akin to those economic migrants who move from places in the Southern Hemisphere to the Northern Hemisphere. Their presence is tolerated in the host country but their loyalty is not to the land currently under their feet. And they would leave in a heartbeat if economic opportunities withered away or worse they faced having to defend another country which is not their native or spiritual homeland.


Polish citizens may live overseas just for school, a work assignment or holiday. That doesn't make them an immigrant unless they desire and are granted the right to stay permanently and, more importantly, obtain full citizenship of a foreign country.


Warsaw is not a city-state and Poles returning to Poland are not immigrants.

Life / Foreigners in Poland: migrants, immigrants and expats [13]

You're wrong.

Puerto Rico is a US territory and people born and bred there are free to come and go and work on the US mainland without any restrictions (and vice versa). Puerto Ricans can even obtain a US passport if they want. So a Puerto Rican in New York is as much of a migrant as their next door neighbors are who were born and raised in places like Massachusetts, Ohio, Hawaii or even Guam. In other words they are not migrants since there are no restrictions placed on where they want to live and work in areas controlled by US jurisdiction.

And a Pole would not be classified as an immigrant unless they were actually going through the immigration process to obtain US citizenship.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]

Same sex marriages have been recognized as legal only in those countries which have become predominantly gynocentric due to the absence of any internal and external existential threats.

But since the Russian bear is still growling outside of Poland's doorstep there will be no nationwide movement among Poles to follow the Sirens call emanating from such libertine bordellos as Brussels, London, Paris, The Hague and now Dublin.

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


No, you provided British media sources (notorious for their anti-Polish sentiment) which only made reference but provided no proof. If the FBI director could be so smugly ignorant about Poland what makes you think the British media are 100% correct all the time?


No again. The source you provided made no mention that British citizen Sawoniuk was self-identifying as a Pole.

Look at the facts. British citizen Sawoniuk was born in Belarusian lands in 1921.

There is no proof of any Polish heritage or intimate exposure to Polish language and culture while he was growing up. The majority group in his village were Yiddish speaking Jews. I know in your head this passes as being 100% Polish but it isn't.

British citizen Sawoniuk joined with his fellow Belarusians along with Russians and Ukrainians to serve in the 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian). The 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian) was formed in 1944 making British citizen Sawoniuk 23 years old at the time. This division initially operated locally in Belarusian lands but then was quickly deployed to France.

British citizen Sawoniuk then settled in your native Britain in 1946 at the age of 25.

Fifty five years later British citizen Sawoniuk was put on trial for war crimes.

Fifty five years! British citizen Sawoniuk spent most of his life living in his British homeland! During his fifty five years as a British citizen, British citizen Sawoniuk became thoroughly assimilated into British life and culture. He became fluent in English and spent a career working for the then nationalized British Rail. This made him an employee of the British government.


Again, you provided British media sources (notorious for their anti-Polish sentiment) which only made reference but provided no proof.

Produce a copy of his actual birth certificate!


I already did. His service in the 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian) is well documented and undisputed. It says it all.


The source you provided shows no photos at all and only mentions the presence of one in British citizen Sawoniuk's belongings. So there is no context at all. Is it a genuine Polish Army uniform? If it was then you need to realize that acts of "stolen valor" are not a 21st century phenomenon. Likewise, use of a Polish Army uniform could have been used during a false flag operation conducted while British citizen Sawoniuk was serving 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian) or to strengthen his cover story and dupe British authorities into giving him British citizenship.


They are recounting British citizen Sawoniuk's explanation of events prior to his immigration to your British homeland. And were is the supporting documentation from Polish government authorities to corroborate British citizen Sawoniuk's timeline of his whereabouts? Oh, that's right, there is no mention because none was given.


Yes, the same guy: Belarusian-born, Belarusian speaking, British citizen Sawoniuk who convicted of committing war crimes in occupied Poland.


And then went no further than to strip him of his American citizenship. Wow!

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


As explained to you many times now he mentioned Poland by name but did not identify a single Polish person he could say was a murderer or accomplice during The Holocaust.


Sawoniuk joined the 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian) which was composed of Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian speaking volunteers. Polish is very different from these other languages. Sawoniuk grew up as a poor peasant as well. Only in your mind is it possible that a poor Belarusian peasant in a predominately Yiddish speaking region would be completely fluent in Polish as well as Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian. That or you seriously believe the Germans who were in combat operations nearly 800 km east of Berlin would have gone out of their way to accommodate Sawoniuk and find a Polish interpreter just for him while he served as a lowly ranking foot soldier. Was diversity and cultural sensitivity a hiring goal of the SS? I never heard they needed to fill an Affirmative Action quota for ethnic Poles in the German Army.


You haven't proven at all that he was ethnically Polish or a Polish citizen. Tell you what, show us his birth certificate and other official papers from the time showing that he was Polish by ethnicity and citizenship. And then explain why any Polish speaking Polish citizen in a predominately Yiddish speaking region with a minority Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian local population which was resolutely hostile to Poles would go and join the 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian) rather than the Polish Home Army or other Polish partisan units right at the outset of the war.


You are the desperate one here. Because believing the absurdity that a Belarusian speaking SS soldier could admit to serving the enemy which destroyed and occupied Poland and would still be allowed to join the Polish Army would give you the tenuous connection you are drooling to get so you can claim that Poland as an underground state was involved in war crimes via Sawoniuk.

Here are the facts:

The 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian) was deployed to France . It was ineffective in combat, was plagued with insubordination and desertions, and was soon disbanded. Again, his so-called Polish Army record is highly suspect. It was inadmissible at his trial. Sawoniuk himself denied any association with the SS and said the Polish document was a fake.

So is this memo of him being in the SS from a genuine Polish Army personnel file or is it from some other official document? It is an important distinction.

Sawoniuk may have had contact with Polish troops in France but that doesn't mean he enlisted. He may have simply been questioned about his reason for being there. Even so it is highly implausible that the Polish Army wouldn't have detained him on this admission of him serving in the SS. Worse would be allowing him to join their Polish Army ranks in spite of it.

Again, we are talking about a Belarusian peasant foot soldier and not some high level intelligence asset who would have been debriefed by the Polish Army.

If he had contact with the Polish Army he could have said he was a refugee passing through France on his way to Britain. When he arrived in Britain he would have had the incentive to change his story to say he served in the Polish Army if he saw that it would improve his chances of staying and becoming a fellow citizen of yours which he did.

This makes sense in light that his SS unit broke-up in France and it would have been too dangerous at that point for a deserter like him to return to his native Belarusian lands since he would have had to cross through Nazi Germany as well as occupied Poland.


No it doesn't say he was Polish. It said he liked to dress smartly like a Polish soldier. Obviously he had a tortured love/hate relationship with Poles just like you do.


You don't need to be so blatant about your hostility toward Poles, Harry. Everyone on here already knows your resentment of Poles. Indeed, lesser men always end up hating their betters because deep down they know no matter what they do in life they will never become an equal.


Hajda was never charged with any war crimes as I explained many times now to you. In the end he became stateless over an immigration matter.


An angry riposte full of spurious claims, laughable conjecture, and sanctimonious cant.

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


He provided no names and not even a quantity of people. Obviously an accusation devoid of facts and evidence which slanders Poland is "completely accurate" enough as far as you are concerned.


Of course he did. He mentioned Poland only once in his sicking article and when he did he deliberately and erroneously included Poland's name right in the middle of two Axis countries in some wildly fictitious rank order placing Poland right after Nazi Germany. He never anywhere talked about "victims and heroes" when he referred to Poland but only "murderers and accomplices [who] convinced themselves it was the right thing to do."


Three very important facts which you conveniently failed to mention:

1) Regarding his ethnic affiliation...

"...[Sawoniuk]had retreated with the German forces when they were pushed out of the region by the Russian counter-offensive, and that he quickly became a member of the Belorussian unit of the SS."

2) Regarding where he reportedly joined the Polish Army...

"And it was in France where Sawoniuk turned up and joined the Free Polish Army, telling them that he had been a member of the SS."

3) How the British judge at his trial in Britain for war crimes ruled regarding the credibility of British citizen Sawoniuk's purported Polish Army record....

"...his Polish army record, ...was...inadmissible."

Source: research.gold.ac.uk/1988/1/SOC_Hirsh_2001a.pdf


I've showed you over and over that Sawoniuk was never Polish. Not Polish by his name. Not Polish by the region he grew up in. Not Polish by the Belarusian unit of the SS he joined. Even this so-called Polish Army record you brought up to support your argument on here wasn't trusted in your own British courts.


For the third time now, the Americans couldn't even put him on trial for war crimes. They charged him over an immigration matter instead. And face it, this is in America which has a very long history of convicting its citizens on trumped up charges and yet still there was nothing there to justify a war crimes charge against Hajda. But then again America is decidedly not a party to the International Criminal Court so they obviously didn't want to set any sort of precedence and were hoping some other country would jump at the chance to charge Hajda. But no country bothered. There is nothing there. And on top of this, just look at the totally farcical handling of Demjanjuk over the decades. He was always charged, always found guilty but in the end he always had his convictions overturned or annulled. Demjanjuk died a free man and legally innocent.

Indeed, why should someone like Hajda even face a trial (lack of evidence aside) when there are thousands upon thousands, yeah millions, of other German military veterans and civilians who served the Third Reich and were directly instrumental in The Holocaust but were never charged and never convicted and instead lived a full life and died peacefully of old age?

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


Comey is flat out wrong. His falsification regarding Poland and The Holocaust has created a diplomatic incident. At least the US ambassador (unlike you) is now onboard with general Polish sentiment and the official Polish government position on this matter.

As for Sawoniuk he was raised in a town with a majority Jewish population. Other groups in his town such as Ukrainians, Belarusians and even Germans were the minority. His full name was Andrei Andreeovich Sawoniuk. Beside the fact that his surname is not Polish his personal use of a patronymic also demonstrates a Belarusian/Ukrainian/Russian heritage. Ethnic Poles have never used such naming conventions. Having been born in a region of the world with often shifting borders and rule by ethnically and linguistically different foreign powers one's heritage and self-identification was all the more important to preserve. Indeed, just because a local person was living in Russian controlled territory one day which the next day became German territory doesn't mean that identities immediately changed with it. It would take years for locals to have their identification paperwork updated (assuming they had no problem being governed by yet another foreign power) as well as learn the new language and customs of the occupying power. Again, most locals chose to preserve their own language, heritage and identity regardless of who was ruling over them.

I can't find anything showing that Sawoniuk (a wretchedly poor peasant) even spoke or wrote in Polish but if he did then I'm willing to admit that it would certainly be a lot more than you can but this still wouldn't make him ethnically Polish or confer Polish citizenship on him.

There is no disputing that Sawoniuk was a British citizen. And don't suddenly and conveniently forget that you have built a reputation over many years on PF making it abundantly clear to Polonia ("plastic Poles" has been your preferred term of abuse) that any Pole who leaves Poland and settles in another country is no longer Polish. Your fellow carpetbaggers have always enthusiastically backed you up on this. Very well then. Using your own criteria then you know full well that Sawoniuk could never have been Polish anyway since he was in fact British and had the British paperwork to prove it.

British citizen Sawoniuk was convicted of war crimes he committed in Poland while she was occupied by the Nazis.

As for Hajda he too immigrated after the war. He was never charged or convicted of committing an actual war crime. There were only suspicions that he was a guard at a labor camp but he denied this. He was stripped of his US citizenship anyway but still never deported. So he is stateless. As I asked in an early post, if he committed war crimes then why hasn't the US charged him for this rather than making it a technical matter of the US authorities claiming he didn't disclose some alleged status on his immigration paperwork? Why try to deport him rather than keep him in country so he can be tried for war crimes and a conviction easily obtained so he can be sent prison? Why does no other country want him and why is no other country seeking to put him on trial for anything?

So what does all of this tell you? It means that the Sawoniuk and Hajda cases conclusively demonstrate your absurd pretzel logic as you try in vain to link Poland as being a guilty party in The Holocaust.

You failed again.

But you are not interested in facts anyway simply because they stand in the way of your malicious agenda to falsely discredit Poland and Poles.

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


You originally gave the name as Selenium and then edited this to say Sawoniuk? Why? Who is Selenium? What is your agenda? Who is feeding you this information, the Director of the FBI? LOL!


Ah, but he was a British citizen. A British citizen convicted of carrying out war crimes in Poland.

Why don't you feel any collective guilty about what your fellow Brit did Harry?

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


Unsurprisingly, you did not quote me in full. I said that the US ambassador should be summoned by the MFA. I then added after this that he should be expelled "until the dope Comey issues a correction and groveling apology to Poland along with his resignation."

The ambassador was only just summoned. However, no correction, apology or resignation has been received yet. So an expulsion is an option the MFA has to exercise and I believe they should if Polish concern over this matter is met with indifference in Washington.


Yes he did. I responded to you already about the Belarusian-born British citizen Sawoniuk and how he was convicted for committing war crimes in Poland. He was tried as a British citizen, in a British courtroom, under British law, and imprisoned in a British jail where he subsequently died.

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]


Do try to follow along.

I stated that the US ambassador should be summoned first. This indeed has happened even though you fatuously stated it never would. And look at how quickly it did too!

Ambassador Mull told Polish media that he already sent a letter of protest to the crass FBI director to tell him how spectacularly wrong he is (just like you were in your assessment of what the Polish government's reaction would be to Comey's unacceptable comments).

There has been no published response yet from dopey Comey over his shocking blunder.

So time will tell if the MFA is satisfied with Mull's efforts so far. But if a formal apology from America is not forthcoming then as I stated before an expulsion of the US ambassador would be fully justified until one is issued. It is a very appropriate response that is still on the table for the MFA to use.

And an apology is due; I'd say long overdue. Obama got it wrong about Poland and The Holocaust and now one of his appointees got it wrong.

This is a serious problem that requires corrective action. Poland is an important player in Europe and has always been a friend to America. America still has interests in Europe and so it is in its own best interests to keep Poland on its side. Additionally, American politicians cannot risk ignoring and upsetting its significant large Polish community by spreading misinformation about Poland whether due to ignorance or bigotry.


Indeed, as your posts demonstrate your understanding of Poland is always based on guesses and rumors whereas I deal in facts and experience.

History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Poland summons U.S. ambassador over FBI head's Holocaust remarks

"Poland has summoned the United States' ambassador in Warsaw over an article written by a top U.S. intelligence official on Poland's alleged responsibility for the Holocaust during World War Two...A foreign ministry spokesman said...that the U.S. ambassador would be summoned to the ministry over the article, and that Poland would demand an apology."

Source: news.yahoo/poland-summon-u-ambassador-over-fbi-heads-holocaust-112916075.html

Well, well, well. Just as I believed should happen only yesterday!

Bieganski: The MFA needs to call the American ambassador onto the carpet for a harsh dressing down over this affront to Poland.

Oh, and of course, Harry - whose stock-in-trade on PF is to brag to everyone that he knows everything about Poland especially Polish thinking - butted right in and quickly dismissed this was even going to happen:

Harry: Fortunately for those of us who choose to live, work and pay our taxes in Poland, there's no chance of Ambassador Mull's time being wasted by such pointless action.

"No chance" of it happening, huh Harry?

So, Harry, will you be calling upon the MFA in person to let them know your displeasure that as someone "living, working and paying taxes in Poland" they are not following your instructions? After all, in your mind, Polish ministry officials have the responsibility to heed your advice. Be sure to tell them that you are paying their salaries with your taxes. And don't forget to take a Polish interpreter along with you just so you are not mistaken at first as being a lost tourist.