Attack on Poland's judicial independence

This isn't even a return to the days of the PRL, it's actually something closer to some of the world's worst dictatorships. There are already issues concerning the impartiality of courts in Poland (referring to complainants as victims whether or not a crime has been proven, 'expert witnesses' paid by the courts etc), but this is several steps too far.

Basically, it opens the doors to the regime using the courts to persecute whoever they want to, and it's one of the most significant attacks on judicial and legal freedom in Europe for decades.


thetruthinpoland.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/unbalancing-the-scales-of-justice/

you are hysterical my friend :)

Just read the article and find one lie in there. It's a shocking attack on the judiciary and the basic principles of justice within a democratic society. Not that a democratic society appeals to the PiS cult in any case.

in the years 1990-2010 attorney general post was held by the minister of justice - nothing new - you are hysterical

and the person held all the powers the minister of justice/attorney general will have now

were you screaming injustice back then???

Looks like you didn't read the article.

And don't confuse the concept of an Attorney General with the PiS cult's new 'Prosecutor General'.

Attorney General is translated to Polish as Prokurator Genralny - which is the same as Prosecutor General

The blog this article comes from has no merit since it is written by someone who isn't even Polish (like the OP of this thread). The anonymous author "thedandy15" even admits "I can read and speak fairly fluent Polish..." and uses a propaganda banner that demands "Poland For All" (with the Polish flag lost among German, British and EU flags) in truly shameless Fifth Column carpetbagging one-worlder ideological style.

Nor are you, for that matter - you've never even been to this continent, never mind Poland. And the article is written by a Polish citizen who has lived here roughly twice as long as you have been alive.

Interesting though that you think the ethnicity of the writer gives an article 'merit' - there are plenty of articles in the Polish-language press here saying exactly the same thing. Admittedly you wouldn't understand them (and nor would many other people reading this) however very good to hear you say that they have 'merit', Bieggers.

prosecutors were not independent in the short history of Polish democracy after the fall of communism (appart from the brief time of PO goverment after 2010) - and they shouldn't as long as they are not elected (like in the US)

Again, it looks like you didn't read the article (or the other, even better one) on the same blog.

appart from the first part the article is biased, manipulative and hysterical

That tells us nothing except that as usual, you're insulting anything that doesn't promote a far-right point of view.

We'll dismiss the 'hysterical' comment since it's subjective, we'll dismissed the 'biased' comment since it's an op-ed piece on a blog and doesn't pretend to present every different viewpoint, so let's have a look at 'manipulative'. In what way is this excellent article 'manipulative'?

LOL ! It's a return to what we had here for most of 27 years post-PRL period, until your beloved previous regime created "independent prosecutors" that did things like sending police to arrest teenagers laughing at politicians. You propagandists have no shame.

Yet another admission from you that you know nothing about me.


Oh, so you know the author personally. So why then does this "Polish citizen" (according to you only) post anonymously when criticizing the current elected Government? And why are you promoting on here and not the author of this blog? Are you this "dandy" character?

Indeed, it looks like just another example of anti-Polish astroturfing from non-Poles like yourself.

in this way : "In fact 5 people are already being investigated for "poorly planning the Smolensk trip". A move likened to prosecuting White Star Line employees for poor route planning on the Titanic's maiden voyage. "

they are not investigated - they stand before a court 'z powództwa cywilnego'
and no preparing a FLIGHT of a PRESIDENT is not in any way similar to planning a route of a passenger BOAT -

So in what way is that 'manipulative'?


Planning a safe journey for passengers is exactly the same. Clue, you take great care to avoid an accident...


Yes. For many years


According to his passport...

And isn't it amusing that a couple of people (with history of this on here) want to criticise a blog, pretending it's 'anti-Polish' when in fact it reflects the views of a huge number of people, perhaps even the majority here in Poland.

you don't understand a simple explanation it seems

and no arranging flights especially of the head of the state has nothing to do with choosing a route for a steam boat

Nonsense, Gumi. You're just trying to confuse in order to deflect attention from a very valid criticism of the current attacks on justice and on the law here. Especially since you can't criticise the substance, so look for an analogy to whine about....

Who is the author then? Why the need for anonymity if, according to you, this blog "...in fact...reflects the views of a huge number of people, perhaps even the majority here in Poland."?

Foreign dude, these "attacks" were a part of their agenda during the last elections and Polish citizens have spoken giving them victory in free, democratic elections. Why do you hate democracy so much ?

I have criticised the substance - the Minister of Justice being also the Prosecutor General is nothing new in democratic Poland and no prosecutors should not be independent unless they are elected like in the US - and no so called 'prawniczy autorytet' will make me think differently (I guess they have vested interests in the so called independence of prosecutors)

They should be completely independent.

The idea of an independent prosecution service (or for that matter an independent anything) is however alien to the PiS cult, as the excellent article shows.

and become rule unto themselves? no my friend - I will never agree to that (unless they are elected - which means they are controlled by the public)

the current PiS proposition allow the public to control the prosecution through the elected goverment

That's where clear parameters in the law are important - something that PiS wishes to subvert.


Given that PiS don't want the public to control the government, but instead believe that they are right regardless of what anyone thinks renders that comment meaningless.

in decades you say?

Let us not take all credit from Serbians, as it was nicely explained by BBC, CNN, DEUTSCHE WELLE etc media. Serbians are far worst

sorry Jon - PO and their president shredded 6 millions of votes of support of referendums - this is how PO and the crew imagine public control of goverment and democracy - not to mention that they have stolen over 100 billion PLN from people's retirement fund accounts - PiS goverment is so far very benign in comparison


code laws will never forsee all possible complications of real life and is prone to varying interpretations - if prosecutors were independent who would interpret the rules binding them or how will you prevent from siding with one political force say the opposition ?

This is not even an overstatement that is simply a hysterical cry that cannot be further from the truth.
Countries have the right to shape their own internal system in any way they seem fit. The same rule apply to Poland.
All those protests and marches, alleged or implied crimes or whatnot is nothing else but the internal struggle between different fractions and contradictory interests. Need I remind a reader that fraction in charge in Poland at the moment gained their legitimacy from the people by winning the last election. Those who are organizing protests and buying articles in the foreign press directly or indirectly belong to that fraction that lost the last election.

They have no majority they have no popular support in Poland and they have no legs to stand on in their pathetic attempt at destabilizing Poland other than money and support in the mainstream media. Let see for how long they'll able to continue that drama and hysteria against prevalent mood in the country.

Judicial system in Poland according to Polish citizens is not working well. Evidently rather than be an independent judicial system its became in the course of decades to be something else - an uncatchable, unanswerable, unaccountable and evidently corrupt system. A system that more oft than not have seen a mafia people and criminals walking out of jail Scot-free while at the same time innocent people were kept in jail for years without charges being filled against them or due process.

And now it's going to be much, much worse...

I have followed this discussion carefully and would suggest that it is often beneficial to look at how other countries prosecution departments operate. The Crown Prosecution Service in the UK is independent from politicians but are responsible to the Attorney General who oversees the CPS and has a healthy relationship with the Director of Public Prosecutions. (the DPP is a qualified senior lawyer who is appointed to his/her position) Importantly there are many codes (articles if you wish) which explain how prosecutions are commenced and conducted. The Director of Public Prosecutions is impartial and is accountable to the Attorney General. Basically politicians in the UK do not have any influence over who is prosecuted and the important point to make is that prosecutors are required to comply with the code for crown prosecutors which sets out standards on whether there is sufficient evidence to charge someone with an offence. I have attached a link for more information. It seems strange that a politician would have sufficient qualifications to undertake legal decisions on whether someone is arrested and charged with an offence. It would seem more appropriate for a qualified lawyer to take this sort of decision. In the UK the Crown Prosecution Service works closely with the police and this enables a more balanced approach to prosecutions and in the end a more fairer outcome as the CPS will ultimately decide on whether a prosecution can proceed on the evidence provided by police.

cps.gov.uk/about/

Politicians in Poland often happen to be lawyers, you know - maybe in a country with a tradition of impartial civil servants it works fine like you describe it but Poland is not a country like that yet and there has to be some overseeing of the work of prosecutors - for me the ideal model is elected prosecutors just like in the US but for now I will gladly settle on a democratically elected government control over prosecution - for your information prosecutors not only can press charges and arrest people with little base but also they can deliberately drop charges or willfully neglect investigations which is actually more probable in Poland - who will make them do they work if they are not controlled - in the case you fear people are going to be charged and arrested without proper reason there is free media in Poland and nothing is going change in that matter