Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
23 Jan 2018 / #811
All of which were being used at the time: it's the nature of war.
Yes, but not by the brits against the Nazis on Poland's turf... The Brits simply did not engage Nazis in Polish territory- save for a few minor dogfights in which the spitfires performance was inferior to the Messerschmitts and Junkers (which today makes beautiful watches).
Of course if the yanks had been a bit less hostile to Poland instead of selling them to the Soviet Union...
The US agreed to the same things that British establishment and military, Churchill aside, wanted with Yalta being a sort of blueprint.Don't forget that in England Stalin was viewed favorably and even referred to as 'Uncle Joe.'The Brits sold Poland out in the same way that the US did.Only person who wanted to reclaim Poland, due to the heroic effort of Poles defending London and participating in British campaigns in Africa and Italy, was Churchill. However, he was convinced that operation unthinkable would be just that - unthinkable and never leave the drawing board.
Indeed they did.
Dirk et al get that shite from their grandfathers. Brainwashed and ignorant of the facts - and even worse - unwilling to learn.
Hahaha facts? Here are the facts Doug - and a history book will collaborate... Perhaps you should pick one up so you can see how limited Britain's help to Poland actually was... In fact, more Polish lives were lost defending Britain and colonies than British lives defending Poland....
Barely. Their 'help' was minimal at best - British help made no meaningful impact and that's a fact. Poland and Britain's mutual defense treaty called for Britain to use all available forces if Poland were attacked, and vice versa. Britain clearly didn't do that. Not only did they declare way days after Poland's invasion, they sat on their hands during the entire occupation.The only time they helped, in a very limited way, was mostly through a few airdrops and dog fights during operation tempest when AK launched a country wide insurgency against the Nazis. In that operation, there were no British troops on the ground, no British tanks rolling through the countryside to provide armor support for infantry, etc. The airdrops were limited to dropping a few garbage stens, one of the worst guns in history, so the Poles could make better copies aka the blyskawica, and some food, medicine, etc. There was NO armor provided to Poland, nor were there any British troops serving on Polish lands to fight against the Nazis. Poles used mainly captures supplies, home made submachine guns, a few captured German tanks, and homemade armor plated GMC trucks to fight. There were no British Challengers or MK's or Spitfires that were being used en masse in Poland against the Nazis.
It can be argued that Poland actually helped Britain more than Britain helped Poland. Reasons why are as follows:
1) Polish airmen served in Britain's forces and protected London against Luftwaffe raids. The British did no such thing when stuka's were pounding Poland. Polish airmen defended London, British airmen did not defend Warsaw or any other PL cities.
2) Polish infantry helped UK in battles in Africa and especially in Italy - British soldiers never took part in any skirmishes with the AK against the Nazis nor were there any British troops or tanks that helped repel the Nazi invasion, cut supply lines, bomb transports moving from Germany to Poland, or engage Nazis on Polish turf as a whole.
3) Polish troops served in British units under Allied command - British troops did not serve on Polish soil under Allied or AK command.
4) Polish troops defended British interests in Africa and participated in the battle of Monte Cassino - British units did not participate in repelling the Nazi invasion or any other major battles on Polish turf. Their help was limited to a few squadrons dropping supplies in Warsaw - that's it.
5) Most importantly - there simply were no regiments or even battalions or any significant sized units that the British fielded in Poland whether it was army, navy, air force, etc. It was mostly limited to a few air force squadrons (the smallest unit, unless they're going by sections in which 2 sections is a squad) making drops...
To my understanding, Britain's losses in Poland were limited to 7 planes... that's it.... so yes, they did help by using their air force to make a few drops in Warsaw YEARS AFTER the Nazi invasion, thus breaking their mutual defense treaty with Poland.... And the airforce was limited to merely providing drops - not bombing targets, not strafing Nazi columns, not bombing airfields, etc.
Brits had one of the lowest casualty rates of ww2 with under 500k killed and around 500k wounded... compared to MILLIONS by other nations and the vast majority of these were fighting Nazis in France, Africa, and Italy - NOT POLAND
have been brainwashed into the lie that Britain somehow "left Poland to its' fate" in 1939.
How is that not a lie? Again, Britain and Poland had a mutual defense treaty which Britain clearly broke as they declared war several days after PL was invaded and also did not provide any meaningful support despite the fact that the mutual defense treaty called for Britain and Poland to use all available means, Britain continued to do NOTHING in Poland until operation tempest in which their helped was limited to airdrops by a squad or two of planes....
While the notion that Britain left Poland to its fate can be debated, it is established fact that Britain broke their mutual defense treaty and did not provide assistance to Poland in any meaningful way. In fact, Poles helped Britain more militarily than Britain helped Poland as there were multiple battles in which Poles fought alongside Brits in Italy, London, Africa, etc. while there were NO British units fighting against the Nazis on Polish turf. The British never fielded more than a few squads of planes - there were no infantry regiments, no tank battalions, nothing like that was EVER sent to Poland by the Brits to help repel the Nazis - or even the Soviets later....
This is why Poles and the Polish military establishment believes that it is up to Poles and only Poles to defend our country - while NATO is helpful, we cannot entirely trust is due to the betrayal Poland faced in WW2 when the western powers allowed the Nazis to gobble up country after country and did NOTHING after Poland was invaded - no bombing of Berlin as retaliation, no marines landing on the Baltic shores, no 100's of Spitfires shooting down stukas, NOTHING... Yet we're suppose to be thankful for a few drops of arguably the worst submachine gun in history???? YEARS AFTER Poland was invaded and Britain broke its mutual defense treaty???
You should be the one thanking us for spilling our blood in the skies over London, at montecassino, and in north Africa fighting alongside Brits against the Nazis. Polish troops fought side by side with the Brits against the Nazis - the Brits however NEVER fought side by side with the Poles against the Nazis on Polish turf... Poland helped Britain more than Britain helped Poland that's for sure. British legacy with their supposed help is a few airdrops - yeah thanks a lot. We on the other hand defended your capital. Where were the Brits on the other hand when Warsaw was invaded?