WWII - who really was the first to help Poland?

Is there any authoritian ideology you don't just swallow hook, line and sinker? After your boy crush on Putin now you're pining for Nazi domination?

@jon357

Yes they were nonetheless awful, granted most non combatants suvivors eyes (and even some combatants from ak) still preferred nazis over soviets. Hence its high time for poland to get the same reparations as the jews as the body counts are roughly equal

those two statements contradict each other, if they preferred nazis to soviets then what are reparations for?

No ones promoting nazi rule. I stated that most polish ww2 survivors preferred the nazis over soviets, like even greggy pointed out. That doesnt mean i support nazi domination of poland as i want my people to be free of subjugation as most poles feel hence that currnt battle against eus dictates and muslim invasion which poles are winning.

Dont take my word for it though ask a few polish ww2 survivors yourself who was worse nazis or soviets.

It was seen as the lesser of two evils for the poles, but an evil nonetheless that was destroying the country hence why poland needa atleast the same amount the jews got.

If you do ever visit Warsaw, be sure to take a drive out of town to Palmiry and visit the museum and graves there. You'll clearly learn a few things.

If one believes some historians and their interpretations of what Generalplan Ost said, the Polish nation was to be destroyed by over-work and assimilation. But clearly you're ignorant of that.


Yet again you're showing your ignorance: 60,000 would be a very low estimate for the number of Poles killed by Nazis by the end of 1939. But lots of them were Jews and so to the like of you don't count as Poles, or even humans.


Apparently it already is now, given the way that our American friends deny that the Nazis never committed any crimes like Katyn against the Poles and that 60,000 would be a stunningly large number of Poles killed by Nazis by the end of 1939.

Regardless harry, and you probably know this better than anyone since youve spent a lot of time in poland, polish ww2 survivors preferred the treatment of the nazis over the soviets as they were far less cruel to the average citizen and non combatant.

A lot of poles were considered aryan esp those around silesia so they had the same rights as the german colonists

Reperations from whom? The Soviet Union or the Third Reich?


Yes. The fascists wanted to wipe out Poland. The communists didn't.


You mean Volksdeutch? Despised individuals in Poland.

Modern day germanistan the samw country still kissing kosher rump roast

Of course pl is never going to get anything from russia. They cant provide for their own vets yet you think rheyll pay reparations to poland. Germanys neuroris of their ww2 guilt.must be used to get money for polosh survivors before merkels out

And Russia, who you claim did more damage?


Weird.

I never said russia did morr or less damage so stop twisting words. i said that to the average polish christian ww2 survivor, nazi treatment was preferable as it was seen as the lesser evil than the russian commies. I think it just bugs you that polish ww2 survivors all the way to todays youth embrace fascism and right wing populism far more than communism and left wing liberalism which are absolutely despised and always has been. Fascism was prevalent in pl even before ww2 i.e. szturmowcy to which NOP is the successor.. and i dont think i need to point out the popularity of pis, the largest right wing marches on earth take place in pl, etc etc

Care to name some of the Soviet death camps at which hundreds of thousand of Poles were murdered?

Sure how about the gulag system spanning smolensk over siberia and into kazakhstan and even the far east.

Again harry, you probably know better than anyone that polish ww2 survivors preferred nazi treatment over soviet just as my uncles fam and greggys fam. Some of the more antisemitic ones even saw it as a worthwhile loss to eliminate almost all the jews in poland. Ask a few survivors though in pl who was worse nazis or russians and i guaruntee you the majority of them will say soviets were way worse. Such as the views of ww2 survivors in pl, not necessarily my own

Interesting...


Most don't...


I doubt much logic enters his 'mind' about this.

And there you go with the insults and word twisting because your too dumb to have a half decent convo or debate. Toodloo

And yes most polish voters according to cbos support right wing parties as pis and kukiz support exceed the 50% threshold. Sorry jon polands commie days are history and no one wants them back.

Yes you could ask WWIi survivors if the Nazis were better than the Soviets but you cant ask the massacred school teachers of Bydgoszcz or the hospital patients of Koscian wheeled out on to the street to be shot by the SS.

Its really a bit trite to talk about the lesser of two evils - it was a crazy time in history when dictatorship was seen as preferable to democracy. That is why the current wave of mini Putins is so dangerous

Close the door behind you.

I'm still laughing at this tawdry quote:

Well the nop managed to host the worlds largest patriotic right wing march. What had the left in poland managed to do besides lose? You just dont like the fact poles overwhelmingly reject multiculturalism, gay marraige, etc. Yet here you are an open communist working with african countries to send migrants to poland and propogating some gender as a social construct garbage. Wbich again begs the unanswered question - why are you in poland if what you believe is is the exact opposite of what the majority of the people do?

Not a single one of those were death camps. Try again.


Well, I suppose the Nazis did take good care of one particular group of Poles....

No just prisons where millions (as opposed to hundreds of thousands) were overworked to death in freezing temps, not a death camp at all.

Yeah my unclr was saved by a nazi (not sure if ss or wermacht) against upa which wanted to kill his fam. But dont take just mine and greggys word for it - ask polish ww2 survivors who was worse nazis or soviets. The funny and kind of sad thing is if you included a third group, jews, a lot wojld say they were the worse but certainly less people than soviets, some might even go on to talk about the zydokomuna

It is bullcrap what those people say who russians were worse, they simnply hate them due to racism and wannabe west reasons. Most of those people are same as those polish girls in their 20s in berlin or the west who are hanging around with ********. They love ******** over there and crap people who grab their roomate's or friends stuff without permission like trash they are.

Exactly, not a death camp at all. The survival rate in the gulag was about 90%, with a low of about 75% which was due to WWII preventing supplies from reaching the camps. The survival rate at Belzec was two in five hundred thousand. The survival rate in Sobibor was 58 from two hundred thousand.

Again, regardless Polish WW2 survivors nonetheless view the Nazis as the lesser of two evils despite all your stats. Most of the Poles that were killed were combatants whether from the army, AK, a few conscripted in the Wehrmacht, saboteurs, rebels, etc.

Also, according to Soviet archives, there were around 1.6 million deaths during the whole period from 1929 to 1953 in the gulag system. Another 1993 study gives a figure of 1 million from 1929 to 1953. So yes, whatever you want to label it over a million died - far higher than your question of 'when did hundreds of thousands die in Russian death camps'

So a million in the entire system in 24 years. A single Nazi death camp murdered 90% of that total in less than 15 months.


Given your spectacular ignorance of well established historical facts, spare us your views on the thoughts of unnamed people.


Are you running a one-man competition for the most moronic, offensive and untrue post of 2018?

Germans were more efficient in mass killing. Also, most of those killed at Auschwitz were Jews, not Poles. The Jews obviously view the Nazis as the greater evil, the Polish survivors view the Soviets as the greater evil. To this day Polish patriots and the millions of right wingers in PL continue to view authoritarian populism and right wing ideals (perhaps even fascism to an extent esp amongst the youth and kibole that NOP tends to attract) over communism.


Regardless of the facts, Polish (non-Jewish) ww2 survivors still view Nazis as the lesser evil. Perhaps its because they were under the commies for 50 years. Even if the body count is lower, Poles still tend to have a far more unfavorable view of Stalin, the Soviet occupation, etc. than the Nazis. Both were bad, but again nonetheless regardless of the facts the majority Polish ww2 survivors view the Nazis as the lesser evil.


I could never defeat the master baiter

Tut tut Dirk. you do talk some bull sometimes. I've told this same story here before, and we all have stories to tell of our Polish families that make you wonder how people ever began to recover from the trauma.My wife's family were from Galicia and maybe the richest family in town, hence the Gestapo took her grandfather off to Auschwitz. They also came for the whole family 3 months later, after tricking them, by returning his wedding ring with a letter apologising for his death ~ "from illness" (but the stationmasters' messenger boy tipped them off with 20 minutes to spare, so they got away across the snowfields, shoe-less, running for their lives).

When the Soviets came it wasn't pretty - but nobody was shot in that town. Nobody who hated and didn't colloborate with the Nazis, that is. Murder and communist purges came later. All from the horses mouth, from the elders of a small satellite town in Slawkow region.

Katowice, where your family was apparently from, or so you suggested, is in parts a different story, and why wouldn't it be, being a border town and being only de-germanised from 1923 onwards.

The line at the end of Schidlers' List about supposed liberation was a cinematic device to get Poles talking, and of course the Soviets were intent on empire, but you clearly are in a minority of one if you insist on babbling on that the Nazis were ever going to peacefully co-exist with the Slav inhabitants. Please stick to corporate finance or whatever it is you do and refrain from talking pure tosh about so murderous a history.

I have no fam in Katowice


That's probably why they were arrested/killed/sent to camps.... poor/average non combatants that didn't fight against the Nazis were mostly spared... when the Russians came through the villages though everyone hid in the forests - they didn't do the same when the Nazis were rolling through the countryside...


I never said that though. You clearly have issues with reading comprehension. I never stated my own personal beliefs aside from both regimes being awful. I stated that the majority of Polish (non jew) ww2 survivors view the Nazis as less heinous and atrocious than the Soviets. Go to the villages and ask old people and they'll tell you stories of how Nazis would hand out candy to the kids and even shared food,

Again, ask a bunch of old polish ww2 survivors yourselves who was worse. They'll tell you it was the Soviets - guaranteed. Regardless of the stats, Polish survivors still view the Soviet occupation as far worse than the Nazi

Go to some villages and they will tell you that communism was better than the situation today. Both that view and the idea that the Nazis were going to allow the Slavs to prosper are moronic. So your point is mute.

Very few people in Poland would rather have communism than the current system though. Of course the PRL had certain advantages - families were much closer, there wasn't nearly as much materialism, people didn't have to work as hard, etc. So yes in that sense some of the older people are nostalgic regarding those things. Nonetheless, very few would say that they'd trade the post 2004 EU entry and democratic system for 70's or 80's PRL.


That's simply your opinion - just as it's the opinion of most Polish ww2 survivors that the Nazi treatment of the average Pole was far worse than that of the Soviets.

For goodness sake, what occupation was worse? Both were terrible and inhumane.
Germans weren't angels! I'm not going to give any detailed information here for the sake of remaining anonymous but three or four days after the Nazis had entered my hometown over a hundred people were killed in a single night.

The difference was that Nazis were organised while the Soviets were unpredictable, generally speaking.

And only those who signed the Volksliste were considered Aryan - nothing to be proud of after the war. Many were forced to do so.

It was a little bit more complicated than that:

https://polishforums.com/history/poland-eligible-sign-volksliste-60618/