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In WW2 Poland who was eligible to sign the Volksliste ?


Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #1
wanting to know more about the Volksliste and who qualified to be on the list
Harry
11 Jul 2012 #2
The wikipedia article is a good starting point (but written with a certain amount of what was said after the event rather than what was said at the time).
Ironside 50 | 11,479
11 Jul 2012 #3
Without many details those with German ancestors or if some of those ancestress were German; Former German (Imperial) citizens and their progeny. It that case every native residents of Upper Silesia, Wielkopolska (Posen) and West Prussia.

On the attached map you can find those without upper Silesia.

/germanempire1871.jpg - Old Poland Germany map
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #4
Interesting.

My grandfather has a pink colored German identification card of him in WW2

What does that mean?
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #5
Does anyone know anything about this (German ) document ?


  • What is this document ?
boletus 30 | 1,366
11 Jul 2012 #6
This is just a Personal Identity Card - Personalausweis .
Why don't you type (personalausweis ww2) in Google and select "images"? You should see there all sort of German identity cards, of various colours - some pink. Many of them specialized: "Deustcher Volkssturm Wehrmatch Personalausweis ", "Soldbuch Personalausweis Police". Some are in two languages: German/French, German/Russian etc.

And a lot of them are shown with their content. But all you are doing here is showing the cover only, which is not very helpful in your case. You know the saying: "Don't judge the book by its cover".

I understand you hesitation to publish personal data, but why don't you use one of the gazillion graphic packages in order to erase the sensitive data and then publish the damn thing here? If you don't know how to do it yourself, ask one of the teenagers from the neighbourhood, or get some professional help.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #7
Here you go.

anything you can gather from this would help me a lot



4 eigner 2 | 831
11 Jul 2012 #8
grandfather has a pink colored German identification card

pink is not exactly a suitable color for a guy, LOL (just kidding)
Palivec - | 380
11 Jul 2012 #9
Google for "Schutzangehöriger" and you have your answer.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #10
thanks for that.
i don't have a translator can you please tell me more about ''Schutzangehöriger'' ?

thanks
TheOther 5 | 3,682
11 Jul 2012 #11
Those not eligible to become part of the Volksliste were called "Schutzangehörige des Deutschen Reiches", AFAIK.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #12
what qualifies someone to be '' Schutzangehörige des Deutschen Reiches '' ?
TheOther 5 | 3,682
11 Jul 2012 #13
Those who were not regarded as foreigners were grouped into one of the four categories of the Volksliste. "Schutzangehörige" were part of the lowest two categories; usually citizens of annexed territories. They were neither considered German, nor foreigners, but stateless persons without rights.

PS: My previous post was a little misleading, sorry.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #14
thank you so much that is very helpful !
I think my grandfather was in category 3.

How many German ancestors would you need to be on category 3?
TheOther 5 | 3,682
11 Jul 2012 #15
Details can be found here for example:

germanwarfilms.com/passports-drivers-licenses-etc/dvd-stamboul-quest-the-dawn-patrol-wwi-2-2-2-2-3-7.htm

Quote:
"Category III: Eingedeutschte-indigenous persons considered by Nazis as partly Polonized (mainly Silesians and Kashubs); refusal to join this list often lead to deportation to a concentration camp."
Ziemowit 13 | 4,448
11 Jul 2012 #16
You wrote in another thread:

staatsangehorigkeit : Polen
Geburtsort : Gnesen/Polen

Now, this Identity Card explains that it was not the case. Geburtsort is "Gnesen/Posen" rather than "Gnesen/Polen". I can see nowhere in this document : "Staatsangehorigkeit : Polen" !?

It is interesting that the Polish letter "ć" in his surname Maćkowiak is retained!
Marzena J - | 1
11 Jul 2012 #17
Posen is a city, today called POZNAN
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #18
@Ziemowit

that's because this is a different document. the document i was telling you about was from after the war (my mistake)

yes its very unusual and interesting they chose to spell his surname the polish way.

do you know how many German ancestors you would need to have to be in category 3?
gumishu 11 | 5,740
11 Jul 2012 #19
Alex, Polish wikipedia entry states that many Poles of some German extraction from Wielkopolska (Poznań or Posen region) signed Volksliste to avoid being deported to General Gouvernment - this was viewed differently by different levels of German administration - local administration was actually happy to keep these people where they were and not allow them to be deported
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #20
interesting. from further investigation into my family history I have found out that my grandfathers family considered themselves as ''Prussian Germans'' from Posen.

out of personal interest I am trying to figure out how many Ethnic German grandparents my grandfather had and I am wondering if category 3 can answer that question?

My grandfathers father was a lieutenant in the German army in ww2
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
11 Jul 2012 #21
WWII ... are u sure ?
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
11 Jul 2012 #22
yes 100% sure
he also came from a family with a strong military background in Prussian times

Merged: how many German ancestors did you need to have to be considered ''German'' by th

to be considered an ethnic German in ww2 how many German grandparents would you need to have ?
TheOther 5 | 3,682
16 Jul 2012 #23
Why don't you google for 'Volksliste' first and see how the whole system worked?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksliste
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksdeutsche

Quote:
"The Deutsche Volksliste categorised German Poles into one of four categories:
Category I: Persons of German descent committed to the Reich before 1939.
Category II: Persons of German descent who had remained passive.
Category III: Persons of German descent who had become partly "polonized", e.g., through marrying a Polish partner or through working relationships (especially Silesians and Kashubians).

Category IV: Persons of German ancestry who had become "polonized" but were supportive of "Germanisation". "

isthatu2 4 | 2,703
16 Jul 2012 #24
Simple answer is in that document his nationality is stated as Pole.
TheOther 5 | 3,682
16 Jul 2012 #25
Let me add: the Nazis didn't care about nationality, all they were interested in was what they called "race". So if a Polish citizen had 100% German ancestors for example, (s)he was considered a German and not a Pole even though his/her passport stated something else and the person might have been completely loyal to the Polish state. Being a German didn't protect you from being sent to a concentration camp, though.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
16 Jul 2012 #26
The Nazis didn't care about nationality, all they were interested in was what they called "race".

sorry,ethnicity,my bad with the flexible semantics.... :)
Whatever,the OP wondered if his relative had been considered german in anyway,the answer is still,no,he was considered a Pole.
TheOther 5 | 3,682
16 Jul 2012 #27
True, especially since he was considered a "Schutzangehöriger" without any rights.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
20 Jul 2012 #28
so a Schutzangehöriger is someone from category 3,4 of the volksliste ?
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
20 Jul 2012 #30
thanks.
just curious how did you come to that conclusion ?


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