Khazars and their crimes in the Slavic lands of Poland

They are not debunking him - just attacking him. The Khazar theory makes more sense than any other theories. Many Jews even bear names from this culture. Cohen/Kagan comes from the ancient Turko-Mongol title for priest, which became their title for leader of the tribe like Ghengis Khan.

Actually, it comes from the classical Hebrew כֹּהֵן - nothing 'Turkic-Mongol' about it.

And as I say, the 'khazar' myth has been debunked beyond any doubt by scientists.

Indeed. And just four years ago Shlomo Sand, a professor of history at Tel Aviv University, authored the best selling book in Israel titled "The Invention of the Jewish People."

His book successfully argues that modern Jews are descended from converts to Judaism. And these converts never lived in ancient Palestine but are from other cultures particular those around the Mediterranean, the Caucasus (i.e., Khazaria) and parts of Africa.

As for those who practiced Judaism under Roman rule in ancient Palestine there was no second "Exodus". The real myth going around is that that the Jews of ancient Palestine vanished for centuries only to mysteriously re-emerge again in the Pale of Settlement. Professor Sand's work proves that the Jews of ancient Palestine remained and eventually converted to Islam.

So who is more believable regarding this topic? Experienced, intelligent and respected university professors around the world who undertook careful research or the Zionist trolls who lurk on the fringes of society and use PF and other internet sites to spread their own fascist, even racist, propaganda?

Considering that today's Jews are the biggest advocates for having "multiculturalism" introduced in mostly homogenous European societies one would have thought they of all people would be celebrating their very own hodge-podge heritage. Oddly they don't and instead we are consistently met with their obtuse, vehement denials regarding their real origins.

He doesn't 'successfully argue' anything.

One key factor is that DNA studies of the Ashkenazi population show no connection to the Khazars at all. They do however show a strong link to both the Sephardi population as well as other Semitic peoples of the Levant. Other pointers are the lack of Khazar surnames as opposed to the widespread Cohen and Levi names; the lack of Khazar place names in the traditional lands of the Ashkenazi and the lack of Turkic features among the Ashkenazis.

What's more believable? Hard scientific evidence from DNA studies, or internet racists...

Not to your personal liking he doesn't. It's always hard for bigots to see their haughty beliefs about themselves and unjustified prejudices against others get completely ripped to shreds particularly by academia. But there is no denying that his book was the best seller in Israel and you can find him giving interviews in the main stream media in many countries. So what are you credentials compared to his? Oh, that's right, you don't have any.


And here we all thought eugenics died in the ashes of Nazi Germany! And how even more bizarre that you personally post on PF all the time about "one race the human race!" but when it comes to the Jews you never get tired trying (and failing) to convince others that they and they alone have this peculiar "racial purity" all to themselves. Quit your BS already!


I already answered that for all the Zionist trolls out there to read even though it is extremely difficult for them to do so.

Not really surprising as there are no Khazars to test against.

There is no Jewish DNA and no hard scientific evidence from D N A studies re Palestine or Israel or the steppes

Not to the personal liking of scientists either. Though in their case it's hardly personal - just pure objective fact.

It's quite amusing to see you get all worked up when your idea is demolished. Glad though that you think that ethnic roots are an irrelevance - something important here in Poland where so many of the country's brightest and best have their roots elsewhere. Clear proof that blood is a lesser tie than affinity.

Re. the 'Khazar' myth that you were trying to promote, it's been so comprehensively debunked that it's quite amazing that people of ill will keep trying to drag it up. Unfortunately for them the group of people involved, the Ashkenazis, have probably been subject to more DNA studies than any other group of people on the planet.

Is there any chance that the studies you are referring to will be posted?


I don't believe in this Khazar stuff but that is spot on. There is zero evidence for this racial purity theory, I would love to see some studies showing what is claimed.

Posted here already - check out the search function - though if you're too tired to look, here's one: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/

So no then
That paper is not what you claimed re Khazars

Looks more like a yes, doesn't it Barney.

No it doesn't, I asked to see the studies re Khazars you posted something else

Oh yes it does! Read a bit more than just the first page, Barney! It's in there...

Though it does prove my point. The so-called debate about the 'Khazar' myth isn't about them at all. They disappeared centuries ago. It's all about the origins of another group entirely - and they can prove their origins (not that blood matters more than affinity) by hard scientific evidence.

Bollox Jon I know what an abstract is The paper doesn't address the Khazar bollox it can't as there is no Khazar population to test against.

My point entirely. However if you actually read the text with a clean, cold, sober eye, you'll see they've addressed that. The 'Khazar' myth is so marginal that it's covered in the body of the text rather than meriting a place in the abstract. Do you need to be told which page to look at?

You said there were studies etc and they were on this site debunking the Khazar myth I would like to see them.
You posted a paper about something else that states that there is a measurable difference between middle Eastern and European Jews which would tend to support the Khazar myth.

There is no point being a bitter nasty person when your errors are pointed out.

I think Jon is in denial.

As I said there are still studies being worked on.
To say something has been "debunked" is a bunch of nonsense.

And this hypocritical statement comes courtesy from the same PC clown who posted only last month the following dismissive remark regarding Polonia in the thread "What makes a man a Pole? what does it mean to be a Pole?":



So according to you it's you and your ilk who are entitled to "ethnic roots" while Polonia are the ones who need to "make that decision" of living in the past or giving it up.

Don't you feel even remotely embarrassed posting on here today that "ethnic roots are important in Poland" when every other day you are telling us such things don't matter at all because there is "only one race the human race."

You have some really serious conflicting issues going on with you. There is simply no reason why anyone should attach any credibility to your postings whatsoever.

Actually, Barney, if you'd bothered to read the whole thing, you'd find that it doesn't support the 'khazar' myth at all.

If you want to see the links on here, use the search function as I suggested earlier. If however it's a little late for you do do that, take a chill pill and try the bedtime reading below:

adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000PNAS...97.6769H
familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_doron.pdf
adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002Sci...298.2381R
plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.0020143
bhusers.upf.edu/dcomas/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Behar2010.pdf
gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61

You can debunk a "theory" and the Khazar thing is nonsense there is no scientific basis for it at all.

Barney: You can debunk a "theory" and the Khazar thing is nonsense there is no scientific basis for it at all
Agreed!

It's sad however that some people have a bee in their bonnet about one particular group and use that Khazar tosh as a way to try and delegitimise their claim to a particular piece of territory and demonise them in general. Some of the dodgier posters here are happy enough to do that, without caring that it's a load of tosh.

Sad that they should have to dwell so much on their origins, however if others use that as a stick to beat them with we can hardly blame them.

Fact: there was a group of people called Khazars. Some of the people converted to Judaism.

Fact: studies are being newly published somewhat regularly. In a year or so another study will most probably be released which will either support or not support the story of Khazars.

Keep dreaming though :)

Btw Im being very moderate here, im not saying either thing way is right.

Sigh, I wish people would stop drinking that koolaid.

Some did (their royal court) for diplomatic reasons, however as far as we know it didn't last.

We don't even know the Khazar genetic markets, however there's an assumption it involves the eu19 chromasome. Present in only 12% of Ashkhenazis and 60% of the modern day residents of the lands the Khazars inhabited.

So, what evidence we have points to them just staying after the fall of their culture.

And there the mystery ends, There cannot be studies comparing DNA of Jews with a people who no longer exist so there is no hard evidence suggesting anything here.


I have read the whole paper and it is not a study comparing "Jewish DNA" with "Khazari DNA". As I said there cannot be any such studies.

I'm glad you agree with me, Barney. We can't talk with any authority about the Khazars - they left no traces whatsoever. No place names, no surnames, no literature or art. Only a possible genetic marker in the local population.


As I said, these are studies of Ashkenazi DNA. That is what all this is about, as amply demonstrated aboveVery thorough and proving beyond all doubt that the Ashkenazi Jews have their root in the Middle East.

You see Barney, when people posts threads on here about the Khazars, they don't give a monkeys about the ancient community whose society crumbled about a thousand years ago. They are obsessing about the Joos.

interesting turkic tribe like cuman and kipchaks have blonde ,red hair and colored eyes. original turks are mongrel race.Turkic mamluk sultan baibars have red hair.. turkey turks are originan turkifizied anatolians. We dont have relationship with khazar etc. our history is anatolian.

Well, I am glad so many people posted here, this is an interesting topic and should be explored here and elsewhere. As for the above comment, I suggest the author reads my initial post and refer to it, I am making it clear that it is about apology to Slavic people (including of course Polish people) to be made by Jews, not about territorial claims, do not twist the message of my thread. The Khazars formed long after Jews and Hebrews have come to existence, there are less misconceptions about the origins of Hebrews and Jews in general than there is about Khazars and Jewish Khazars, there is ample of evidence as to who the latter were, they were of Turkish origin and then became Jews just like any other Jew, who then dispersed all over Europe concentrating in the regions of Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Russia and some in France. The DNA of Turkish people is very similar to the DNA of the Middle Eastern populations as both come from the same origin, therefore, it is no wonder that today's Jews share their DNA with Middle Easterners, the Jewish Khazars converted to judaism as ethnic Turks and then became ethnic Jews (ethnicity is not only biologically determined) hence the genetic similarities between European Jews (and not only European) Turkish and the Middle Eastern people. Even the genotypes match; many Turks have red hair as did most Khazars and as do most Serafidic Jews occupying Middle Eastern region, a trait very common among Polish Jews for instance; the skin tones, body build (muscle and skeleton, in particular the skull) as well as height also match.


I meant to write "there aremore misconceptions about the origins of Hebrews and Jews than about the origins of Jewish Khazars"


Again, here I meant to write: "Even thephenotypes match"


Easter is a great time of the year, actually it is the best Polish holyday and I like it enormously, even as a pagan I still go to Catholic Church at Easter it is great! I think Easter is a time to do, among other things, some forgiving but also some apologising and I think this is the opportunity that Jews should take to apologise publicly to Polish people so the Polish people, other Slavic people and the world would see that barbaric deeds and mass devastation of human life will not go unnoticed, even if it has befallen on the Slavic people who do not matter much on the world stage but are people just the same as everyone else and deserve the apology. Those Slavic people who suffered at the hands of Jews could, perhaps, then rest in peace.


I concentrated on the apology to Polish people because the themes in this forum are meant to be Poland related but I think all Slavic people deserve this apology from the Jews.

Jon 357: "here in Poland where so many of the country's brightest and best have their roots elsewhere".

It depends on whom you are considering to be the best and the brightest.
By the way, it was Polish culture, scince and education system that attracted the brightest or their ancestors, not vice versa.
Keep that in mind , please.

Let's not forget the Radhanites who without any doubt were from Middle East and who were the Jewish merchants, they acted as a middle men between Khazars and Muslim Arabs and also between Christians and Muslims. It is them who carried out castrations of Slavic men and boys since Muslims were prohibited by law from doing this. Jews were also prohibited from doing this but only in relation to fellow Jews, judaism prohibited castrations against others: goys/gentiles.

Pagan :
"Jews should take to apologise publicly to Polish people so the Polish people, other Slavic people and the world"

Apology is not enough . What about an offer of compensation ? To me the idea is as good as their
jewish Project HEART (The Holocaust Era Asset Restitution Taskforce )