How many stupid jokes for instance about Poles stealing cars?
This is what you base your argument on? Jokes?
Old Poles remember how much they suffered during the war and seeing (arrogant) Germans in Poland often make them sick
In Poland, I saw 3 situations in which Poles insulted Germans for just being Germans
I do not know where in Warsaw you take the bus, but my own experience here in Poland is completely different. The opinion of Poles being welcoming towards Germans is shared by a lot of Germans who work in Poland or visit the country as tourists.
I for one never had any issues for being German and I do not keep it as a secret. Following your bus example, I too have one. At my first Widzew Lodz game I went to the bar in front of the stadium because i had 3 hours to wait until kick off. It was late August, extremely hot and the bar quickly filled with supporters looking for a cold pint. Not the crowd I would join for a beer when going out with my girlfriend but for a few beer before the game, to discuss football, the crowd was ideal. It didn't take them long to realize that I am a foreigner and when asked where I am from I did not make a secret out of the fact that I am German. Usually, the football crowd are the ones you would expect to react in a unpleasant manner when meeting Germans, it actually turned out to be a pleasant afternoon. Even when, what appeared to be, their more senior hooligans and ultras appeared there were absolutely no issues.
You may have witnessed something happening on a bus but you can also see drunk people on busses. That does not mean that all Poles are drunks.
Although I do wonder how these Poles on the bus would have known that the guys they supposedly insulted were German. Surely, we do not have our citizenship tattowed to our forehead. They could also been Austrian or Swiss.
No one in my family likes Russians thats why we left not because of Germans. I have been to Germany 14 times. I would not even enter Russia. So whatever, speak for yourself.
You should. Russia is a beautiful country and a lot of Russian don't actually support their president and his politics. Of course, not too many would say it it out loud in public. Russia has a lot more to offer than Putin, self-written history and raging wars with it's neighbours.
I for one would love to go back to see more of the country.
See, on the other side, Russians aren`t that what are Germans.
They are more a like then you know, both got raven like symbols during their Imperial days, while Serbia has a two-headed white eagle, white like Poland. What is wrong with Serbia? Their a bit crazy that's all :)
We all have a little Serbian side of ourselves one can say, our inner demons we are afraid of.
Keep to the topic please, we are not discussing Serbia.
Although I met a Russian American who had some Anti-Polish prejudices that he learned from the element of the "American" media that is Anti-Polish.....I have met more Russians in America who were basically decent people who appreciated Polish people because of our common Slavic roots. For all of those Russians out there who want to be Slavic brothers of Polish people...I say thank you.
My feeling is still that deep down where they live, Germans on the whole have a healthier respect for the Russians than for the Poles. Germans are an achievement oriented people, a little small on "soul" (dusza), but big on material accomplishments! In this regard, the Russians, with the largest single continent/country on earth, a long history of military tactical supremacy, plus the folks who "beat" Germany in WWII, have earned the begrudging praise of the Germans. Furthermore, their artists, composers, top-flight ballerinas, cinema, scientists, physicists, cosmonauts etc.... have won them a place in the world.
The Poles and Poland continue to remain a backwater society for Germany at large, unfair (as well as plain UNTRUE!!!) as this assertion may be:-)
Yeah the Germans only have a "healthy respect" for Russia as long as Poland is in between Germany and Russia. LOL Could you imagine what would be going on today if Germany was located where Belarus is? The Germans and Russians would be perpetually killing each other and have LITTLE respect for each other ;-)
I disagree that Germans and Russians have done more than Poles on a per capita basis. Any kind of advantage or "superiority" that Germany or Russia has on Poles is because the populations of these two nations are much larger than Poland. So by law of averages they are bound to have more people to create and do things. In WWII, Germany had 80 million people, Russia had 140 million and Poland had only 32 million. Yet both of these "superior" nations NEEDED EACH OTHERS HELP in invading Poland. Germany and Russia on there own have always FAILED to successfully invade Poland WITHOUT each others help despite each nation have much larger populations than Poland.
And come on.....If Germany and Russia each only had a small population of 20 or 25 million people.....does anyone really think anybody would have heard anything about these nations more than other countries today that have 20 to 25 million people? I doubt it.
The Poles and Poland continue to remain a backwater society for Germany at large, unfair (as well as plain UNTRUE!!!) as this assertion may be:-)
Spot on. The two countries have very long standing links, are massive trading partners, have achieved an understanding after centuries of intermittent problems and just don't need to consider Poland in the same way.
I live at the border of Germany Zgorzelec/Görlitz and i have seen the hate against Germans growing after the problems with immigrants. When i first moved here i lived in Germany and they where afraid to cross the border at night (offcourse not all). At that time 8 years ago there was always tension. This al depends on regions because i live at the border i think the hate will be bigger than other regions
No time to hate. From his position, one Pole, i would dare to suggests, just needs to say: ``i forgive you but, i won`t forget and, now is time for me to go.`` That ``go`` means that Poland finally have to restore its independence and sovereign power, what Poland was, which care on the first place for its own interests and not to serve its former Germanic masters, who are exactly that - former.
Been working with germans all my life, I like them and enjoy their company. Never met a ruski who wasn't deluded. Frankly I want trump to build a wall to the east so we never have to meet a russian again.
There already was one, Marsupial, for nearly fourty years known as the Berlin Wall! Ever heard of it? :-)
I reiterate that in my experience a great many Poles can deal with the Germans much more easily than the Russians. For example when lots of Poles choose a foreign language in school (other than English, of course, which is required!!), the majority will choose German, not Russian.
For example when lots of Poles choose a foreign language in school (other than English, of course, which is required!!), the majority will choose German, not Russian.
They don't have much of a choice. Russian teachers were mostly fired post-1989 and replaced with others, and only a handful of schools even offer Russian as a subject.
I can come up with several reasons. One is the Germans were our traditional enemy but they had respecr. Ruskis were supposed to be slavs but betrayed all other slavs multiple times usually by stealth and usually while we were already busy. So they were never respected just seen as oportunitist back stabbers.
Another obvious reason is germans make something of themselves, economically and otherwise. No matter how many countries and land the ruskis grab their country is always trash, inefficient and backward just like now. All their sports people are cheats and always were, their media a deluded propaganda machine, their management crap. Poland has made more progress in 20 years than the hapless ruskis in 200 years.
I don't know about all people or even lots but for me and my small tribe its simple. We consider them utterly useless in all things. Opposite to germans. The only way they can ever change this is to prove otherwise over a sustained period of time. So another words never.
@Marsu: if Poland has "made progress" over the 20 years, it is only because of western money whereas Russia needs to get by with their own money and also Russia is hundreds of times bigger than Poland so normal that not much progress over the last 20 years or so ;). Don't compare apples and bananas.
Useless comnent. Uk germany all western countries made progress after the war with western money which we did not get. So we are getting it now 60 years later, about time. Russia is only on their own because they are rubbish. If they received western money they would waste it like everything they ever got. Rotten tomato. Don't know why you bother writing that, been dealing with dummies?
@Marsu: YOU started to compare Poland and Russia ;). Yes, there is a big difference since Poland has received and keeps receiving billions of euros/dollars from western companies and from EU whereas Russia has and does NOT. Russia is entirely on its own to develop country and developing a country as large as Russia of course cannot be done as quickly as developing a tiny country of Poland's size.
Yes, completely senseless to compare Poland's and Russia's situations.
And as to giving money to other countries, you must be most naive if you believe there is nothing to gain ;).
The Russians have received Trillions of dollars for oil/gas and have blown it. Russia is far less deserving that Poland, they got the wealth due to the random wandering of their ancestors and Western technology (which increased their production 10x since the fall of the SU)
Russia, my friend, was also FAR LESS WESTERNIZED than most of her satelite "members", including Poland!! When capitalism more or less "hit" the forver Soviet Union around about '89-93 or so like a ton of bricks, she was totally unprepared for it, without the necessary warming up period allowed her Western European neighbors:-)
An analogy might indeed be Weimar Germany prior to the rise of Hitler. Germany was a nation essentially beaten down socially through centuries of authoritarianism, unfamiliar with the ways of democracies, to which England, the US and France along with Scandinavia, for instance, had basically long since grown well accustomed. Hitler became therefore the more familiar model of harsh dictatorial despotism vs. acquiescent, "give-and-take" leadership, misinterpreted as weakness by the Nazis.
After the War, Germany once more had to get used to an Anglo-Saxon-style of Western government, all but expunged between '33-45.
And then there was former East Germany; Communist since around '49 up through the Berlin Wall and only "democratized" around the early 90's before being absorbed by the Federal Republic.
Russia knew ONLY shifty, black-market business under Communism and the ideas of honest deal making a la the English or even the US remained strange and almost frightening for them as it meant INDIVIDUAL rather than merely collective responsibilty.
Small wonder therefore the excesses of capitalism under the oligarchs Chubais and others!
I'll answer with sincerity, Poles tend to 'lean' towards Germans. There're some areas where Russians can relate to with Poles but in daily life it's different. When Russian was enforced onto students most didn't want to learn it. If you ask students nowadays, they still prefer learning German to Russian. When your brother back-stabs you it hurts more, that's why I used the term 'lean towards'. You can therefore imagine on what scale it affects you when the strike comes from someone close to you.
Pay attention to what people say and what they actually do since actions speak louder than words. Take a look at marriage statistics and you'll see what I mean. It's said that there's mutual hate between the countries but then every year about half the population of Poland is married to Germany and ranks number one in international marriages. There're many Germans looking to move to Poland by purchasing a piece of land and then the fact that Poles have German names and vice versa. Why would a mother name their child after a German soldier if there's still hatred? If you watch Polish films whenever there's a foreigner who doesn't speak Polish, Poles (the actors) try to communicate in German by actually speaking it. If there was really so much hate then Poles wouldn't even want to pronounce a single word let alone show it on tv.
I'll be honest, Russians are on the black list. Poland and Russia have a dark past and so is with Germany but it's also different in many ways, like the fact that they're not Slavic, so it hurt somewhat less. Poles haven't forgotten what Russians did and that's the actual truth. It's Russians that we haven't gotten over not Germans.
As mentioned before, Germans would offer children chocolate and my grey-grandmother had told me they were kinder than Russians. She'd told me quite a few stories like one of a German who approached a little girl, took off his coat and gave it to her and then he was secretly saving up his meals and bringing two spoons. Another shocking one of an orphan and a German who actually adopted the child and took it with him back home. She'd also told me Germans would actually offer flowers to little girls and even pick them up and sing to them. Russians were violent and brutal for 'brothers' like with the kitchen scenario. They were cruel enough to rape girls of any age and wound them terribly something that is still happening in Russia today. Media cover that up but the violence Russian women receive from men is unbelievable. With Germans it was somewhat different, the girl had to be willing unless the man was drunk.
I'm writing based on life facts and my grey-grandmother's experience while trying hard to ignore the fact that my closest childhood friend is actually German. Hoped I cleared things up a bit for you.
I don't even think Poles ever hated ordinary Russian People.Even when she was in a Siberian Labour Camp during the war my aunt told me ordinary Russians were good and often kind people.
It is The Russian state that we Poles hate and are fearful of and nothing has changed there. As for Germans,it's the other way round. The German state is not too dangerous but some ordinary German people can be very arrogant and condescending.
Germans have the reputation for being arrogant and condescending to nearly EVERYBODY, not only the Poles! To a certain degree, this stereotype is not unfounded. Germans are known, even amongst their own, to be "geltungsbeduerftig", in need of constant reassurance that they're always being proper, serious, and above all, credible....to the extreme:-)
