I am so confused is there anyway someone can prove tartar ancenstry without a DNA test. My dad is full Polish-American(second generation) he has olive skin and often gets mistaken for an Arab or Latino. My little brother has dark skin too and many people think he is cuban. However on my dad's side its all Polish. For me well I got most of my mom's genes she's mostly of German heritage. I have light skin, brown hair, and look like a typical European.
But what is this mysterious birth symbol everyone is talking about? I have a form of lines resembling a lightning strike on my high thigh.
Can anyone describe more specifically what this birth mark is? Is it hypopigmented (white)...what does it look like?
Can anyone here post pictures of their tatar features or the birth marks, since visuals through verbal descriptions are hard to make out.
My son is Asiatic in his eyes, so much so that his doctor says it looks like a down syndrome kid (Mongoloid features). But he is not down syndrome. His dad is Polish and has the same eyes as do both his daughters--it's called the epicanthal fold or "Asian eyes". One tested her DNA and it comes back Asian and both her parents are Polish descended.
Relatively lots of Far East influence in Polish population.
Some direct from Asian tribes (going as far back as 13th century), others indirectly via Russians who were under Mongolian boot for about 300 years, some through Ukrainians who were also geographically closer to peoples of Asian ethnicity on one side and neighbors of Poles on the other.
I can tall you about the genetics of it all because I don;t know enough. If you're iterested in exploring the subject I'd point you to two research areas:
- history of Poland since 1240 and then with emphasis on Poland's wars in the East. - [genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html] - The Genographic Project
My late father was Polish, and I have recently had the results of my Y DNA Halogroup given to me and it appears I am in the Q Halogroup which is most commonly found in parts of Siberia. The most common way that group arrived in the Polish bloodline appears to modern theory be through the Tartar invasions of Poland in the 13th century. The Tartars rode their way through Southern Poland destroying the Old Polish capital of Krakow and the surrounding region, and according to historical records pillaging and raping the local population. My late father and his family are from the area just 25 miles or so, south west of Krakow.
Q Halogroup is also found in the Kets and Selkups people of Northern Siberia and is the main grouping for most of the native population of North and south America, before the Europeans found the New World.
MORE INFO ........ Haplogroup Q is defined by the P36 marker on the Y Chromosome. Haplogroup Q is of Asian origin and occurs at a low but appreciable frequency (0%-17%; Turkmen 10%, Uzbeks 5-14%, Kazaks 6%; average about 5%) in Central Asian, Indian and many Siberian populations. Largely found within a huge triangle defined by Norway in the west, the Iranian Plateau in the south and northern china in the east. Haplogroup Q was in 18.8% on average of Siberian Y chromosomes according to a survey carried out by Hammer and Zegura in 2002. However, the vast majority of haplogroup Q chromosomes occurred in only two Siberain populations- 94% of Kets and 66% of Selkups belong to hg Q, in other Siberian populations the frequency is much lower (27% in Eskimos (Inuits), 17% in Altais, 10% in Evenks, 2% in Nensti etc).
Haplogroup Q carriers are found in some European populationstoo, although with extremely low frequencies and their presence is probably indicating the influence of Asians over long period of time via the Huns, Avars, Mogols / Tatars, other assorted Central Asian Warriors, and traders over and along the "Silk Road"
Many Poles have Asian ancestry, probably from Tartar invaders. Some males from Poland share this haplogroup
This thread is fascinating! My wife is 100% Polish. She gave birth to our first child in August. Sometimes when the light is right and his eyes are relaxed he has an asian appearance. He has a very slight mongoloid slant to his lower eyelid. When his eyes are wide open everything seems to round out and look more "European." He doesn't have any Down's characteristics, but my wife and I have been understandably concerned. (Losing sleep actually) Our pediatrician even scared us with the suggestion of a blood test for D.S. based on the appearance of his eyes during a visit-- but I'm positive he's not a Down's baby.
Hi all, I'm half tatar and have also been interested in finding out more about my ancestors. The tatars are a mixed turkic people who are a mix of turkic (kipchak) and finno-ugric peoples, (and to a smaller extent slavic peoples) with a long history in eastern and central europe. Turkic peoples were originally asiatic and share a common ancestry with the mongols (the two groups branched apart early, establishing differences in language but mostly keeping a common nomadic cultural tradition-yurts, horses etc)sharing the altai mountains as their origin. Since times immemorial , through conquest and migrations, the turkic peoples gave rise to many ethnic groups (modern day kazakhs, tatars, uzbeks, kyrgyz, turkish etc) by settling in different lands and mixing with the native population to give a new nation. The reason for the huge variety in appearance of many turkic peoples today is because political confederations of nomadic tribes often placed less importance in ethnic unity and more on warrior prowess and mutual agreements allowing nomadic peoples of different ethnic origins (turkic, mongol, iranian, hunnic etc) to merge into confederations ie hordes, khanates and give rise to peoples with a unified cultural identity but varied genetic ancestry. As far as i am aware, many people of eastern europe have this central asian ancestry thanks to the migrations and conquests of nomatic asiatic peoples like the huns, mongols and later tatars.
Crimean Tatars in fact aren't very Mongoloid. Historically there has been a huge mixture with Slavs, Greeks, Italians who had their colonies in Crimea and even Goths who were assimilated into Tatars. A really "Mongoloid looking" group of Tatars is Siberian Tatars but they live thousands of miles away from Crimea and Eastern Europe.
chezę aslamaleykum my polskie tartar i just found out in 2002 i was polish tartar i live in georgia now and just like you i am tring to find out info on are people and to make polish tartar and polish friends and also trying to find a wife as well so my naame is micha£ brendon koczur now konopka cause i got adopted in 1989 you can reach me at youtube.com at my page polskitartarking or my email at assyrianorthodox74@yahoo
The mark you are talking about is probably the "Mongol stain" that normally appears on a Tatar baby's buttocks right at the time of birth. It normally disappears completely when the baby matures.
It is also common among the Koreans and Japanese.
A Mongolian blue spot is a benign flat congenital birthmark with wavy borders and irregular shape, most common among East Asians and Turks, and named after Mongolians. Authentic Mongolian blue spots do not disappear before puberty, and last well into adulthood. The most common color is blue, although they can be blue-gray, blue-black or even deep brown.
The Mongolian spot is a congenital developmental condition exclusively involving the skin. The blue colour is caused by melanocytes, melanin-containing cells, that are deep under the skin.Usually, as multiple spots or one large patch, it covers one or more of the lumbosacral area (lower back), the buttocks, flanks, and shoulders.It results from the entrapment of melanocytes in the dermis during their migration from the neural crest to the epidermis during embryonic development.
Among those who are not aware of the background of the Mongolian spots, it may sometimes be mistaken for a bruise indicative of child abuse.
I had one, too, till I reached teenage. I am very proud of our heritage.
If you are a tatar, your heritage covers from Lithuania, Poland, Mongolia, Manchuria to Korea. All through the Eurasian continent. That's pretty wide, isn't it?
Poland's tiny Muslim Tatar community taps deep roots
Found this very interesting...
Poland's tiny Muslim Tatar community taps deep roots
By Maja Czarnecka (AFP) - 2 days ago KRUSZYNIANY, Poland - Tucked in a tiny village, the small wooden building looks just like any other house of worship dotted across the Polish countryside.
But three crescents mark it out as a mosque, and a rare footprint of Islam in this overwhelmingly Catholic nation of 38.5 million people. Kruszyniany is home to the descendants of Muslim Tatars who came here three centuries ago. The village of 160 people on the Belarussian border played host Tuesday to Britain's Prince Charles, on an official visit to Poland....
But speaking of this Charles' visit I'm intrigued: why he choose to meet this small minority? Not that there is something inherently wrong with going there per se. Was he going for "lets find the most exotic minority in Poland and pay them a visit"? I remember when Hilary Clinton many years ago visited Poland as a wife of US president and she went to see a Jewish school in Warsaw while she didn't bother to visit any Polish school. Not that, again, that there is anything wrong with that but I remember reading about it in Canadian newspaper and being somewhat surprised. Does that mean that she is going to visit Polish school while visiting Israel? I'm just curious how those decisions are made
During his visit, Prince Charles was amazed that Polish Tatars served in the Polish armies. He was also surprised that there is a mosque in Gdańsk. The Tatars were pleased anyway.
Do you think it means that the royals will try to help with the situation in the UK? Not that they can order something, but they can influence. Is he getting ideas on how to live with Muslims in a way they and we like?
im 25 yrs old and my mother's side of the family carries the last name of Tatar. i have all ways wanted to know more about what that last name carries if ne one can help please do
But you mean I made a mistake or I mix it?If you thought I had made a mistake,you are wrong. Tatar is Tatar,while if you read the mogolian history book,you will find Tartar is Turks and Mogolian.(not the turks today,i mean the turks hundred years ago).For them,which is the proud and arrogant Mogolian,Tartar is much more formal.
Tartar influenced our culture extremely deeply,one of the north tribes lingering on Siberia and their development last hundreds of years.From more than 2000years before, we began to defend ourselves against Hun(Somebody said that hun fled to Europe and became some tribes in nowadays Hungary).500 years ago due to the attack from Tartar and Turk,we rebuilt and joined all walls together formed the Great Wall.
So I don't know which one you are coming from,I mean how many years ago your grand grand father went to Russia(at that time that is not Russia).Nowadays Tatar public in Russia is the nation left by Mogolian.They are not russian,i mean the nation,not the citizen.Some tribes expanded to Europe when Mogolian conquered Asia and Europe.
Of course nowadays everybody who alive has been created millions years ago,so nation and history.we are the survivors.
P.S don't regard Tatar and Turks,or you can say Turkic is united.Tatar this tribe name first appeared in the recorded book in Turkic,Tatar was slaved by Turks.
Tatar first known and recored by Chinese is 840,which connected with others tribes. After Tatar replaced turks became the main residents in Mogolia,Tartar,this word began to refer to all tribes except Mogolian who lives in north of china.
Later after Mogolian replaced Han(which is Chinese)in China,Tatar became some part of Mogolian,while they are different
I really need to know if these Mongolian Blue Spots remain on the lower back forever, for my mother has one. And it`s clearly visible, even in old age.
On top of that, she has typically Central Asian body proprotions ie. short legs, flatter but, a bit wider hips, and very dark and extremely thick hair. Now, her face is a cross between a Chinese and Swedish Barbie. She has these very violet eyes, yet her eyes are very slanted, and her face is very round. Sometimes she reminds me of Leonid Brezhnev, the former president of Russia. Both my nieces have high cheekbones and slanted eyes.
My son also has a very round head, and thick dark very straight hair. (his dad is a White Mulatto.....yet his head shape screams ``Asia``. It`s as round as a pumpkin)
When my son was little, he would ask ``why does nana look Chinese``. Her eyes are a dead give-away. My sister gets mistaken for a Native American. I have high cheekbones, but I`m extremely fair and freckled. My son was born with a purple stain on his neck, and I am wondering if that`s also my mothers Asian genes at work.
The Polish Tatars are Mongol in orgin, Native Americans also are Mongol in orgin. Native Americans and people of Mongol descent are often born with the Blue spot on their butt. During Genghis Khans invasions of of the present day Stan countires of what use to be the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe the Mongol seed or DNA was spresd far and wide.
Am a tatar. and living in Siberia.And it was realy shock for me how you hate us. History is gone. Turks live in Turkey. We are muslims.and during centeres russion empire tried to russificate us.But its our land.religion and language.And we a still alive. And now some polen try to kick us.Please hate and kick russians for you Katyn -olnerźz i mr. president. Be peas upon him. I saw in some polski calendar how lucky lives tatars in PR.They foget mother language, but pray.Will you construct ghetto for them.Pleas stop.
