English tossers give Brits a bad name in Poland

yes.
You're really getting boring.

Rubbish, it's just as prevelant in the Scottish culture.

Isnt that what this thread is all about?


150,000 is hardly a bunch now is it?


How about the ones that were pi$$ing up the side of M&S at 5pm when I was leaving work, were they all old firm fans?

Cardno, I have no issues with the Scots, but its a bit of a cheek to call the English names when the Scots do exactly the same.


guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jan/28/local-newspapers-newspapers

All they were trying to do was sell papers sweetie...They even went against the wishes of the police authories in Manchester.

Bingo! Well said Shelley.

Well, it's hard to say either way. It's not the kind of thing that you compile stats on, it's more about hearsay.

I've just heard many more tales about English folk doing it but it's another question if they are true or not. Football fans more so. Normal folk? Hard to say.

Maybe there's a shortage of good public toilets in Manchester ;0 ;)

More probable English speaking folk. I have seen this myself in the Guinness bar in the plac solny in Wroclaw, A group of people singing and dancing, not causing any damage or trouble it was said to me " pah the English" when i pointed out that they were in fact Irish i received the answer "ah yes" with a smile as if to say that's ok then.


Have you been to an England match or English league match recently?

Yes, the Old Firm is Rangers and Celtic. I can't see why anyone who was not a Rangers fan would have been in Manchester.


I haven't called the English any names here, I was purely stating that the vast majority of people in Manchester were Rangers fans, who are only a portion of Scottish football fans. As Seanus has mentioned, these people are bigots and Unionists and I welcome them in football as much as I would welcome a serial child rapist to Sunday dinner.

I gather that they have really toned it down and are calm at English football matches, time means. I just have bad recollections of English fans abroad, ripping stuff apart and needing the big water tanks to disperse them. There were more organised gangs, the firms. Nowadays it's a more mellow scene right enough.

I have heard a couple of stories about Scots in Kraków and I can imagine them being as rowdy as people said. My Scottish friend (from this city) was there at that time and he was ashamed. There are plenty of Scottish wan*ers too. In fact, a lot!! Mostly Rangers fans I might add!

I dont believe it is.


Its about the English culture and their behaviour abroad.




Repetative, I would agree with.


And why do you think that is, what informs their opinion ?

You wouldn't


No it's about two cruel idiots. Since when has pigeon tossing abroad been part of English culture.


Same actions one percieved bad the other as good, ignorance, bigotry, racist, small mindedness.....

My views are based on my observations.
I haven't heard a coherant argument to change my viewpoint, ergo, my views are reinforced.

Unless you think there another reason ?


Based on the fact that the English have a worse reputation abroad, based on their behaviour, than say, the Scots or the Welsh.
However, these idiots are consistently being reported as being British - hence the title of the thread.

That's because they are British and travelled on a British passport.


The title of the thread is a dig by you, it's what you do.

Maybe it's because England's population out numbers the other home countries by 10 to 1 thus more English travel abroad and more trouble reported. There are good and bad in every country.

“Reputation is an idle and most false imposition; oft got without merit, and lost without deserving.”

William Shakespeare

Aberdeen fans are pretty rough when they go abroad, Szkotja. There are enough instances of mindless stupidity to give US a reputation. However, as Vincent said, the media tends to cover English fans more.

Although I tend to find that Scots are more cultured when travelling, there is evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps for the general population that may be true. But without robust statistics how can we tell ?
If we wanted evidence your statement we would need a control group.
One example we could take as a control group would be football fans.

For example we would expect the same arrests at a game containing 50 000 English footie fans as we would 50 000 French , German, Norwegian fans ?

Retrospection informs us that this is not the case.


I have made that point in several posts in this thread.

What I am saying is that


.

Or are you saying that all countries cultures are the same ?

I'll polarise the issue to make a point -

South Korea vs Spain - could be Policed by babcias.

England vs Spain ?


Of course Scotland has idiots abroad, its just that by comparison..............

Edit - re Aberdeen fans - they can be rough at times in Scotland too - they roasted a sheep on the train after a game.

To me, English louts are the same as Scottish, Welsh, Irish or any other Country abroad louts.
I don't think a couple of thugs throwing pigeons around should condemn a whole nation. How many peaceful citizens go abroad, enjoy their holiday and don't cause any trouble? This is not reported because it's not news, but I would not mind betting that it is a high percentage.

Absolutely, we have clarified that point and are in agreement.

The point is that English culture encourages this behaviour more so than others.

Again - I am not hearing anything to the contrary.

I don't doubt there are Scotland fans who cause some bother on away trips but Cardno is right, if there are Old Firm "fans" causing trouble anywhere while following those teams then it's likely they aren't even Scotland supporters. The majority of the Old Firm fans support England or Ireland.

Most fans of other teams are waiting for the Old Firm to be accepted into any league outside Scotland.

There are Old Firm fans who don't cause an ounce of bother though and are just as sickened by the disgusting behaviour of the others who allege to support their team.


I'll go with that, a lout is a lout regardless of nationality.

Still stands


Total shite.


The biggest problem was the racist chants and monkey noises by the Spanish fans.When was the last time you went to an England match? There is hardly any trouble at all

"English idiots convicted of tossing pigeons in Krakow are giving all visitors from Britain a bad name" - just isn't as snappy.


Thats an informative response - can you expand on it ?


Link?

The Spanish game wasn't the issue.

The issue is the same as in several posts before.


So South Koreas culture towards football is no different to Englands ?

I think we both know that England fans aint going to be picking up litter at Wemberley any time soon.

It's a total answer.


You have a personal beef with the English that is obvious, what it is only you know.


Like they do at Hampden?


So predictable.

The guys were not English and were not idiots ?


I am accepting that different cultures have different beliefs.
In comparison to South Korea I believe that Scotland can learn from them in their approach to public sporting events.
Can England not learn too ?


English idiots that throw pigeons about - yes.

If I was an English person addressing this question - would your attitude be different ?

Two guys and not the whole English nation, therefore not a cultural issue but two cruel twats who should have been battered by the police in my opinion.


You can never learn enough and to be honest the UK leads the world in running sporting events, the festival at Cheltenham, grand national, the derby, football ( is a safe as any country in the world now probably more so, just look at the amount of families who go) motor racing the list is huge.


No it wouldn't and technically speaking and by the standards i have used i am not English myself (as in birthright) To me where someone is from is a point of interest and not a point of conflict!

Do they pick up the litter in Sth Korea after the match?

Much ado about a few idiots, found anywhere, performing their drunken antics.

It's like the stories of the Jews that come here. So maybe it happens but let law enforcement do their job. We have to leave some things to trust these days.

As for Scotland Vs England, we can see that they are generally more laddish than Polish guys. Go to Nottingham or Glasgow for evidence of that. I feel safer here than there.

Pub wise i have not been to either. I did have a weekend in Paisley quite a few years ago though.

Again, I'm basing my knowledge of Nottingham on a couple of documentaries I have seen and word of mouth from Englishmen.

Glasgow is a cool place to drink but can get rough in parts towards the end of the night.

Dont mention the Jews !!!!


Its not about conflict - its about recognising that there are cultural differences anbd that there are different patterns of behaviour.


Thats one example.

I'm saying the English culture encourages this behaviour and needs to change.


How so ? There are plenty of people in the FA and in Westminster Palace that would say the same about the countrys ( Englands) culture towards boorish behaviour. Have they a personal beef with the English ? - please validate your statement with refs.

I think I already have mentioned them :)

Well, you have to poinpoint them. There is something to be said for Britishness but we do have a different interpretation of culture, I can agree there.

I think racism may have been reduced in England. Statements like 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk' are downright inflammatory. Those days are fizzling out though. We had it too in Scotland. Remember the monkey noises and throwing of bananas when Mark Walters made his debut for Rangers?

Ah, but Seanus - most of the Aberdeen trouble is directed at us, rather than perpetrated by us.

The gas attack on the pub full of Aberdeen fans in Olomouc in August this year? The petrol bombs being thrown at us in Madrid a couple of seasons back? In each case the Dons fans were the victims. While I'm not saying we're all innocent, and that there are no scumbags in our support, there is a hell of a lot less than in the Old Firm support - particularly Rangers. After all, being outnumbered and attacked is hardly the same as Rangers fans in 6-figure numbers demolishing a city, assaulting property and persons, the police force and bottling TV technicians who were trying to help.


You do realise that it was one of the Aberdeen fans who was set alight, not an opposition fan? And it wasn't done by one of hers, but by a hibbee being an idiot with a lighter...