The Orange Order vs Poles...again

The subject which came up not so long time ago disappeared from the polish forums!!!
As a Pole in NI I would appreciate any comments in this case... AGAIN

what is it , that you wish to know Del boy?

On the subject of religious beliefs this is a statement by Tottenham Hotspur FC to traveling fans going to Krakow on Thursday..

"Please note that Wisla Krakow do not allow flags bearing the Star of David to be displayed by home or visiting fans as these fall within the category of religious/political banners/symbols."

Care to shed any light on why this is not allowed?

yeah we talk about normal world..... but somewhere ( NI ) people have specific conduct of rules.They play in super extra religious way, symbolic... too much for me :)

When I lived in NI, things were a lot worse than at present. The best way to lead a normal life there is to, keep one's religious beliefs to ones self, don't try to ram them down someone else's throat and carry on with your life. There has got to be more important things to worry about than religion.

no way, they bulid everyting on that, no science, no secular society. they based everything on ridiculous believes

Look around you Del boy, there are people there, carrying on with their lives and not letting other people dictate to them. 95% are just good people like you and I.

You are quite mistaken. The current and immediate past situation in Northern Ireland has little to do with religion, it is more related to the political aspirations of Unionists and Nationalists (google each term - there's a vast amount of info available on them) and to previous discriminations of Unionists against Nationalists.

Everyone's at peace now, so there should certainly be no problems for a Polish person in Northern Ireland, regardless of religion.

Of course there's always the looney fringe who want trouble, but you get those in every country - they're all the same, but with different excuxes.

not sure what the question is ....its NEARLY completely nonreligious though, in a nutshell the orange order(also called Unionists) are a a group of people in the north who remain loyal to the queen and the ideals of william of orange i.e oppression, pillaging, murdering, removal of human rights and the attempt the keep the north of ireland under british rule. although things have simmered down EVERYONE still has under lying opinions which are strong and near the surface. this is as unbiased and to-the-point as i can get around this subject.....

These people are desended from Scots presbytarians, that's why they have Scottish names, the Orange order is also present in parts of Scotland....If Scotland does gain it's independence, I'd like to see who they choose to be loyal to then, I doubt anyone wants them.

A few UDA members are living in exile in Scotland.

the british dont want any thing to do with the unionists in the north either, unionist tend to be very staunched and conservative with regard to the queen and ensuring that the north remain apart of britain.

its not a question of who stays loyal to who, its a question of letting go of the past, realizing that people have to live their lives and try to make it as easy for everyone as possible...

are you sure about that?
I don't want divide people just need understand this conflict.

its like living with a divorced partner if you know what i mean, you recognize that things have happened which may never be forgiven, you both think your in the right etc....

but you still have to live together so you have to be practical to maintain a level of cohesion in living together...

That's probably the best analogy of the situation in Ire I've heard.

Era, it must all seem strange to Del Boy to understand having not grown up with it and I suppose people pick out the most extreme aspects, hence focusing in on the Orange Men.

hmmmmmmmmmm wel i think its better i dont disscus this issues :D haha

I tried in the past and I found out that most Irish people don't want to talk about it, so perhaps people who are not Irish would finally respect that and move on.

What do you think Del Boy?

Bring me a glass of freshly squeezed juice.

So is this mean that the subject is highly provocative and should be closed and forgotten.

del boy as you are so interested in the orange order, and if I remember you are in Derry, why don't you just go to one of the pubs in the Bogside or Creggan and ask some of the kind folk there to answer all of your questions?

its simple, I am looking for answers from scientific point of view not from some drunk folks from Bogside or Fountain

But all the answers are on your doorstep del boy! Maybe you should try asking joepilsudski :)

Very balanced.....you are learning:-)

You quoted Stalin once.

The problem is that there are two paradigms and each has their own "Engineers of the human soul".

Is this a good description of 'Good Friday Agreement'?
'The agreement represents a new consensus for Ireland, that the island is
populated by two tribes of irrational savages who must forever be monitored
lest one side gain advantage over the other. Under the deal the wisest
representatives of these tribes, supervised by the British and US governments,
will gather on a regular basis to fight for the scraps that are provided'

sean, that's not my words, just cited somebody to make the subject more lively :)

Provoker?
And i always fall for it.

If you cite someone, you give some information about who they are. A name, for example.

When you have two people living in the same space there will always be conflict.

Look at the Ukranian people in Poland since 1945. Our Canadian lady has typed about problems her family encountered. Others have talked about West Ukraine and the clash of cultures (to put it mildly).

You are an educated man you should understand this dynamic. If the great locomotive of history has taught us anything it’s that we will repeat the mistakes of the past.

People in Ireland don’t want to go back to the past.

Barney, like Ali G said, respect ...but I still dont know the answer.

There is no answer.

I dont think that the Orange Order have any policy towards Polish people other than they don't like Catholics.

that is right.


I got that feeling some time ago so I just left it alone.

fair point, Barney
but they divide people (employers) on simple scale: protestant-catholic. Many times we the Poles goes in that scale directly to the catholic branch, I am talking about access to the work places, without religious backgrounds.

Do you know any Lutheran Poles? What about other eastern Europeans? Any Russians from the Baltic states over there?