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Should Polish immigrants learn English to work in the UK?


tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #31
Because that would be a violation of very basic EU rules...

what??? what rules are these, are you going to throw the human rights book at me, are you another softly softly approach guy?? pat everybody on the head and let them through, no matter what :)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
9 Sep 2007 /  #32
There doesn't seem to be much availability of English courses, even for those who want it.
Especially for people working shifts at odd hours or having one job in the daytime, another in the evening.

human rights

Not human rights - EU rights.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105  
9 Sep 2007 /  #33
so why should a foreigner feel the need to have an interest.

don't really see the harm in this.

Well I do. There's a real harm in people who have no interest in even learning the language. Why shouldn't you learn the language if you have every intention of staying here in the long term. Imagine yourself in Poland long term, without knowing much Polish.

at least the thread title is not? Just

I reckon Admin edited the title...
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #34
Imagine yourself in Poland long term, without knowing much Polish.

Who could this affect but yourself though?

i.e I don't see who, other than the people in quesiton who are not wishing to learn, it affects

I reckon Admin edited the title...

I see! lol
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105  
9 Sep 2007 /  #35
Who could this affect but yourself though?

Anyone you were trying to communicate with?
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #36
There doesn't seem to be much availability of English courses, even for those who want it.
Especially for people working shifts at odd hours or having one job in the daytime, another in the evening.

thats a fair point but how about learning some before you get here :)
then you can learn the rest by speaking with english people, thats what some of my Polish friends did and others took the courses that you mentioned.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
9 Sep 2007 /  #37
what??? what rules are these, are you going to throw the human rights book at me, are you another softly softly approach guy??

Torny, really... Didn't they tell you to wear a helmet when you were a kid ?
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #38
Admin

not my flavour of the month :)

Who could this affect but yourself though?

if you were working in poland it could affect the people you are working for, with and serving :)

Well I do. There's a real harm in people who have no interest in even learning the language.

i totally agree dolly you've got my backing even though you don't need it :)

Not human rights - EU rights.

what ever they are they are nonsense :(
osiol 55 | 3,922  
9 Sep 2007 /  #39
Tornado1066, you can work in any EU country.

You don't legally need to learn the language.
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #40
Anyone you were trying to communicate with?

it's not really a problem to that person though - is it? It won't matter if you can't understand what the person was trying to say, it would only matter to them for they won't get what they want/need. If that was the case, they would maybe be encouraged to learn. Otherwise, if they are living happily without knowing the language...?
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #41
You don't legally need to learn the language.

to me its not a matter of legal or non legal its principal, it just makes things more difficult for the individual themselves and everybody else around them who dosen't happen to speak the obscure language of a former soviet state for example :)
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105  
9 Sep 2007 /  #42
Quoting: PolskaDoll
Imagine yourself in Poland long term, without knowing much Polish.

Who could this affect but yourself though?

i.e I don't see who, other than the people in quesiton who are not wishing to learn, it affects

Yes good late edit. Still my original answer remains. If you don't know the native language of the country you are living in then communication, even at the very basic, affects those who you wish to communicate with.
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #43
if you were working in poland it could affect the people you are working for, with and serving :)

Ah -well I don't know about over there, but in my job you must pass a basic literacy and numeracy test (and supposedly have certain grades) to be accepted into the job. If it is the same case there- the employer would not have to hire me! That would be incentive for me to learn - but really does not affect the employer if they need not hire me. I don't know if this is the case here, but I say it in point of the case where I am, in reverse situation. It would still only be the perosn unwilling to learn it would affect for the boss would just not hire them.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #44
thats half of my point, if you can't understand anybody how are you going to get a job, on the other side of the coin you may be very skilled but cannot be employed due to lack of language skills :)
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #45
Yes good late edit

yeah the edit wasn't placed to change my meaning, only to add to it so I did not make a new post which would have meant waiting longer

affects those who you wish to communicate with.

only if they wish to communicate with you - I only see it as those (who won't learn) who are losing out
osiol 55 | 3,922  
9 Sep 2007 /  #46
I agree with the principle that you should learn the language of the country you live in to a certain degree.

I couldn't live in another country without having some knowledge of the language spoken there.
I would expect to need it.

Many Poles in the UK only work with other Poles and find that learning English is not essential for earning money.
You can't force them to learn English.
There can't be legislation made to that effect.
The UK does, however, put too many resources into providing translations for just about everything - for non-English speakers, including those not from the EU; and not enough into providing English language courses.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105  
9 Sep 2007 /  #47
it's not really a problem to that person though - is it? It won't matter if you can't understand what the person was trying to say, it would only matter to them for they won't get what they want/need. If that was the case, they would maybe be encouraged to learn. Otherwise, if they are living happily without knowing the language...?

Alright, let me bring up something I vowed I wouldn't , my profession. Lets just say I decide to go to Poland at the end of the year and work in my field of palliative care - ok. I know fine well my command of the Polish language is poor, very poor actually. But I'll go in December or January. My first week in a terminal ward and I meet a seventy-odd year old Polish lady who is suffering like hell from a disease. She's trying to tell me, in Polish, what is wrong with her and how much pain she is in...but I can't understand her (she doesn't speak English because she's never been out of Poland and this is her country). How is this acceptable that I can't understand her because I haven't bothered to learn Polish well enough?

I know many might find this extreme but it's an example. It can be swapped to someone from Poland who speaks no English coming to Britain and ending up in hospital. How can they explain how they feel?
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #48
You can't force them to learn English.

no you can't but you should be in control whether they enter the country or not :)

There can't be legislation made to that effect.

there could be its just that the people in brussels are soft a you know what :)

The UK does, however, put too many resources into providing translations for just about everything - for non-English speakers, including those not from the EU; and not enough into providing English language courses.

spot on, sod the translations and spend the money on language schools and classes for people to learn the queens english
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #49
thats half of my point, if you can't understand anybody how are you going to get a job, on the other side of the coin you may be very skilled but cannot be employed due to lack of language skills :)

then that may act as your incentive - I've expressed that I think it would benefit the person to learn it, for it is they who will suffer if not. Or perhaps they don't need to if they have the luxury of not needing a job where they have to know english (i.e no need for a job at all [[lucky, and I don't see it, or perhaps they have someone who pays their way]], or some job which would not require knwoing - don't ask me what, but a lot of people in my job, who must have passed that test, seem to have learned the job through being shown instead of knowing what the word for things are)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
9 Sep 2007 /  #50
no you can't but you should be in control whether they enter the country or not :)

I know that you'd rather not be in the EU, but we are in.

the queens english

One has come from Poland.
So what to you do?
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #51
How is this acceptable that I can't understand her because I haven't bothered to learn Polish well enough?

That is different - you know that to do your job you have to have a command over the language to do it properly if you live there. That is more to do with job-requirements for another country rather than entry requirements.

I know the title of the thread before it is pointed out, but people here are speaking in terms of entry so...
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #52
Or perhaps they don't need to if they have the luxury of not needing a job where they have to know english

i don't really care about the individual, i care about those who have to suffer when they need something done, like in hospital, shopping centres, everyday situations where they need to communicate, my goodness even on a bus.

who must have passed that test, seem to have learned the job through being shown instead of knowing what the word for things are)

thats all well and good them learning a job through watching and learning, having a job is not my point, my point is being able to communicate and live with those around them.

One has come from Poland.
So what to you do?

what under EU law or under my revised immigration laws?? :)
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105  
9 Sep 2007 /  #53
That is different - you know that to do your job you have to have a command over the language to do it properly if you live there. That is more to do with job-requirements for another country rather than entry requirements.

Somewhat.

What I also know is that to live in another country, regardless of career, I must have a command of that language.

Do you seriously think it's acceptable to begin a life in another country (a country in which you would presume to make your life and living) without having a basic grasp of the language?
osiol 55 | 3,922  
9 Sep 2007 /  #54
Tornado(number), have you worked with monolingual Polish speakers?

It is possible.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't learn English,
but their not speaking English does not make it impossible.

But you know that many of them could do better for themselves if they could.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #55
I'm not saying that they shouldn't learn English,
but their not speaking English does not make it impossible.

your right to work you don't have to speak english but to be part of britain you should :)

But you know that many of them could do better for themselves if they could.

exactly
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #56
my point is being able to communicate and live with those around them.

maybe they do - with other people who speak their language. Not all Brits speak to those around them, you get poeple who don't speak to others at all and they do speak the same language!

i care about those who have to suffer when they need something done, like in hospital, shopping centres, everyday situations where they need to communicate, my goodness even on a bus.

and that is why they should learn the language - but that is on their own heads, they must know the risk if they do not learn it, it is still they who it will affect. I feel it would be better, and I like Osiol's point where more money should be put into classes for it

Do you seriously think it's acceptable to begin a life in another country (a country in which you would presume to make your life and living) without having a basic grasp of the language?

I don't find it sensible - but acceptable yes. As it seems does the EU
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
9 Sep 2007 /  #57
maybe they do - with other people who speak their language.

yes exactly, this creates gaps in society, groups of people packing together so you get 'litle poland' or 'little india' etc etc.

they must know the risk if they do not learn it

yeah they don't come in :) its so simple isn't it but no no no no were under EU law now so lets follow the brussels example :)
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105  
9 Sep 2007 /  #58
As it seems does the EU

Yes and this needs to change. All ways.

You think it's fine but imagine moving over to Poland next week with your limited command of the language. You'd be expecting everyone in Poland to communicate with you in English? Or do you think you could muddle by?
_Sofi_  
9 Sep 2007 /  #59
You think it's fine but imagine moving over to Poland next week with your limited command of the language.

I wouldn't and I don't think those coming here would expect us to speak their language either. But I would have to learn for my own happiness and for me, under my cicumstances, to feel that I could get by in a country which speaks another language first. But that is my personal choice
jnowiski 2 | 121  
9 Sep 2007 /  #60
the only non-english speaking country i'd be willing to move to is Russia...and i'm not sure i want to move there :)

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