What is good about being in the UK?

Yikes! That's the same thing that the 'history teacher', Coach Murray, told me in an Alabama high school when he wanted to invite me to a party... :'(

I get you now - you thing that shouting 'rape' at any critique is standing up for your country! Good, good to meet a patriot. But... take a lesson from BB.

Never heard of that. So much to learn, so much to learn;).


I will be nice and just.

Good. I will be proud of you, I think :)

>^..^<

M-G (does aphro have an afro?)

You don't have better roads because the Germans did not want the Russians to move their tanks on them.

Maybe they still do?

Funny how Czech has roads, Croatia has roads, Slovakia has roads, Madeira has roads, but we - never.

Fine by me, I would plant more trees to create more forests.

One thing I love about Poland is the large number of forested areas apparent when flying over Poland on clear days.

It makes me very jealous!

England was once like this but unfortunately fell victim to large deforestation by the year 1350 and then more of England's remaining forests were chopped down during the 18th and 19th centuries.

We now have very little forest left in England.

A sad fact.

:(

You will soon. The Chinese are building them.

I'm with you on that :)

until we will follow drink and eat at night culture there is no way we will see them in large numbers in Poland

Never say never.

There are various reasons for what Poles stay outside their own country. A large number of Poles plan to remain for life and will decide to settle in the UK. Living abroad, they are not always happy to socialise with British. The language barrier and cultural differences are not the only reasons. Poles tend to move abroad in little communities and they rather want to stay in them, quite strongly seperating themselves from the rest of society. They often don't even socialise with other Poles they meet (being Polish myself I have been in the situation when I tried to get closer with a group of Polish people I met in the UK and sadly, I was rejected). They rarely have contacts with people outside their communities, which doesn't always depend on these people's nationality. This is not racism, this is their personal preference. The UK didn't put any restrictions after Poland has joined the EU so this is how the immigration problem occured. As much as I understand why Lefty is upset, I must say that this is NOT Polish people's fault and they do NOT have to socialise with British at all. Poles often move abroad to work and save up the money, there is no need for them to practice or even try British traditions or customs or stay friends with their British naighbours. If you don't like it, then please blame your government... As for Ksysia, I think she clearly presented a real list of goods about the UK and that doesn't make her a moaner in my opinion.

Nah she's a moaner!

To be honest she made a longer list of the good things about the UK than I could think of myself...

Perhaps you have not looked well enough :-)

Kysia was buying skimmed milk then moaning saying all the milk was watery as well as buying cheap and then complaining it wasn't very good.

Oh, this is not all bad at all!


I agree although I have posted in this particular thread and I don't have to posses the knowledge of what else she's been saying on the forums.

What is good about being in the UK?
great clubs
great museums
great cities
great wages
London Baby

I have 2 collegues at work, they just moved here from London and Manchester, they were amazed on how peacefull it is here. They reported that the violence is the Uk is big, and the surprise for me was that they both said, this violence was done by its majority not by inmgrants in its totality but white locals. It throws down all the moaning theories of some posters here who claim from the top of their lungs that the foreigners make little britain dangerous.

huh!

I don't know if you have been up where lefty lives but it's worth the trip.


We all moan from time to time :-)

Heh, funnily enough I have been there together with Lefty himself and I've totally loved it :)

There are some great places up there, especially when the weather is nice.


I did read something about you two but that was to Krakow.

I was in London for three months while I was at University. I went through the Erasmus program and followed a course "Film and the First World War" at the University of London and had a place in the Crescent near Regent's Park. I loved London - especially the museums, I loved the pub-culture (which was back then something completely different than what I was used to in Amsterdam or elsewhere in NL!) , I loved the many monuments and the fact that they took such good care of the city. I compared it to Amsterdam and in A'dam they didn't spend as much attention to details as they did in London. I spend a few weekends with friends in the country and I loved it too. Ppl were friendly (and as usual they all love the Dutch) and I liked the women back there. They spreaded a bit more than just welcoming warmth :)))

In all I do like London and the country side of England. Later on I've been to other towns and I must say that I do not like Birmingham. It's supposed to be the 2nd city in England and there is absolutely nothing to do, at least not the times that I was there.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

We're all rooting for him. We'll even do a re-write on his CV if you like.

MareGaea
do you mean the first non white city in UK
how was that, any impressions?

Manchester's the real 2nd city to be honest, but there's still plenty to do in Birmingham, it's just not as obvious as in London.

I prepare my response m'lady...

;)

I find Ksysia's comments on the previous page very positive and complimentary, how about you focus on one topic at a time Lefty and stick to this thread and what's been said on it so far instead of dwelling on some old posts? It's a bit childish of you. Do you expect praise and glory for Britain all the time? Aren't we allowed to dislike certain things about UK as well as loving others? For example i like English people and how polite and approachable they are but i don't like the fact everything's being said behind people's backs and your lack of directness. I don't like chavs, small talk, people who live off my tax money, the lack of family values and no respect for the elders. I hate marmite, i don't like pies, mushy peas, pickled eggs, ale and the pub culture. Does it mean i hate Britain and the British? Do i have to pack my bags and leave immediately? If i don't like something or someone i will simply avoid it. Do you love everything about your country? No? Then why don't you leave? You don't own the place, we have the right to stay here as well as you do so stop moaning and throwing a tantrum when you don't like what some people say.

Things i like about the UK, in no particular order:

*The opportunities, wages, working conditions
*Customer service
*Helpful, positive and approachable people
*Variety of accents, colloquialisms and idioms
*Some really beautiful places all around the country
*The weather when it's not raining (i don't like cold)
*Amazing choice of foods from all around the globe and the British cuisine itself
*Affordable prices, sales, reduced stuff ;)
*Fashion and cosmetics (although there's more choice in Poland imo)
*Nightlife (but not pubbing)
*The feeling of freedom and independence
*No pressure to fit in with the crowd
*Men :D

Ok so it's clearly time to step my game up.


I agree but I also question your logic because then by this standard nobody 'has' to try to integrate either, or, for that matter even attempt to and therefore; now we have an example of how the seeds of hatred are sown and this ends up causing real problems in the future socio-economic climate of the country in question. Please, let's not have double standards as this isn't really fair to one side of the argument or the other.

In my opinion, I think this probably happens to a much worse effect with ex-pats in Spain where Brits refuse to do anything except eat English food in English styled pubs and there is quite the 'mini-Britain' culture over there. This sickens me that we are trying to make a part of another country ours alas this is apparently progress. I don't understand why people can't see how this damages the national identity of the country in question(Especially in Britain with what little of this is left!).


I've covered this above but I honestly think for you to have a fully shaped well-rounded opinion on this topic you would need to experience the negative effects of mass immigration in your country and then sit and listen to them have a good whine about the many 'flaws' of Poland and how they have extremely 'sad' lives ala Ksysia and see how you feel then. You are correct when you say that they do not have to be friends with their neighbours but I think this is preferable to having neighbours who are complete strangers! (Maybe I am an idealist but I should not be punished for thinking this!)

Reading all those threads it's all a little upsetting to say the least because let me tell you it hurts to hear that you as a citizen are being branded as a racist.


We do (and I agree it's not Poles fault in any way) but that's not exactly a cohesive argument and/or nice thing to hear... of the few things I have ever read on pf about problems in Poland I certainly never staunchly replied "blame it on your government" because this 'government' is a 'representative' of the 'majority' of the people and therefore the fundamental mindset of 'the people' and to this end I might as well blame everything on the government, for example isn't the topic in question based around the mindset of people/individual/person? By this logic; the government has great influence on the minds of the people and therefore this helps to shape the opinions of the people.

This is the problem with democracy, government and even mass media but I'm not going to go into this here!


I STRONGLY disagree that she is not a moaner.

She is simply attention seeking with these threads and titling them "The sad life of a Polish migrant" is just looking to be negative and in my opinion frankly stupid.

The only reason she wrote a list of good things is because I made this thread in counter to hers (immature as it may have been however she did not even attempt to present a cohesive argument when I challenged her on her points in her threads in fact she wrote something so stupid the mods removed this) and without it she would have said nothing.

This was a knee jerk reaction to try and claw back some popularity from people on her part and I think that this much is obvious!


No Justysia you know this is not so, I am not being childish about this and I rather think it's rather ignorant of you to even write such without giving it the proper forethought from both perspectives and this is a real lack of producing a cohesive and coherent argument on your part in that I am most certainly not "dwelling on some old posts"! Surely you have realised that this thread was in response to what Ksysia had posted and her negativity towards the UK? This is all 'interrelated' regardless of if you did or not. Now let me show you exactly how I am not "dwelling on old threads" by giving you a lesson in my logic, my example is as follows:

noimmigration is back and he has suddenly decided that he likes Bigos (he accidently tried this ;D) and has now told the forum about it.

Now should we because of this ignore all of his old threads? Ignore everything he has said in the past because he actually said he likes something? I realise that this is a slightly extreme example but nonetheless a usable one, besides the whole reason I created this thread was to counter the other and if you think this is childish I suggest you think about this a little harder because I am almost certain that you would do the same should someone write six threads describing how awful Poland is... but wait! If they then made a list of positive things in another thread then this would make it all ok?

No.


Not in any way would I even suggest such a thing in the same way that I'm sure you don't expect the same for Poland, the difference is I don't go around making negative comments about things unless I have considered all the factors involved!

Let me give you another example:

When I was in £ódź I was taking the tram to Manafaktura when I witnessed 3 young men racially attacking a Chinese woman, now I will not go into details of exactly what happened but I did not feel the need to create a thread about it on pf even though I could have done quite easily.

The reasons for this in my mind are clear I simply did not feel the need to talk about this in a negative way because I knew that: Yes, some Poles are racist but this is a minority not a majority.

I did not do this:

Thread title:

'The sad tale of an Englishmans observations in Poland - Racism in the streets of £ódź"

Body:

"I observed Polish people spitting on a Chinese woman and I think this is wrong so now I generally think that maybe Poles are racists and this is a real problem in Poland... etc etc (More mindless generalisation)"

I think you get the idea.


They/You certainly are and more than likely I will agree on the same points as you may list but then again I will use my common sense and judgement in my opinions about other countries and their foods and behavioural types. Surely (again) this is common sense, no?


I think you are being pedantic, melodramatic and overly defensive. Did I even say anything like that? Do you hear me saying "If you don't like pickled eggs pack your bags and get out!"? No I didn't and no I don't. Please don't treat me like some uneducated chav idiot with no sense at all. I am in fact glad you like lots of things about the UK and I'm glad that you can also talk about the things you don't like in a normal adult manner instead of making things up and moaning about how sad your life is. I didn't sense one bit of negativity in your list of things you like/dislike about Britain other than the mention of the actual things you don't like and this is fine by me! Just please don't turn it into a six thread whine-a-thon because no English person wants to read it! (and I believe we make up the majority on pf! ;D)


No I don't. There is a lot of things I don't like about my country and I may well leave in the future, still, again, I'm not moaning about it.


I'm sorry but you don't own my freedom of speech either do you? So as long as there is freedom of speech in this world if I read something I don't like you damn well better expect I will write about it! I think you are much the same as me in this respect! Be careful here as if you think about it you very closely approaching on the borders being hypocritical!

This was not the case until the recent mass immigration since 2004. Poles have been in the UK for at least 70 years (the first Polish paper was printed in 1940, for example), but earlier generations came over mostly for political, not solely economic, reasons.

For most (at least before 1989) return wasn't an option, not something to brag about -"when we've made enough money we will go home". Whereas for my parent's generation, it was all about escaping oppression under the PRL and nothing to with "making enough money to buy a large house back home" (earned while moaning about how bad the host country is, of course).

And that, alongside the fact that we did not come over by the hundred thousand, meant that we were more likely to be accepted by British people.

Apart from Ealing in London, there are few well-known "Polish areas" - outside of London, "Polish areas" do not exist; Poles tend to spread out, not ghettoise themselves, even if they don't know English too well. I've lived in four major cities outside London which had significant Polish populations before 2004, and not one could claim to have a "Polish area". As an immigrant group, we've had a long, peaceful, and almost crime-free history, and few other groups of immigrants have integrated as well as we have. All this has changed since 2004.

Before 2004, there was virtually no resentment or aggression towards Poles, now it is common. Why? To put it as simply as possible, too many came over too quickly, and too many of these have bad attitudes. Even if only 10% of the new immigrant population are "bad" ones, the entire community is now tarred with the "dumb drunken Pole/Polish wh*res.. taking our jobs, housing, etc" image. And you may even have been a victim of that resentment, as have I. 10 years ago, it would have been virtually unthinkable to be racially abused for being a British-born Pole - but this has happened to me several times during the past few years. And this is, in my opinion, due to the fact that ethnic Britons are fed up of mass Polish immigration, and anyone speaking Polish in public, or who has a Polish surname, is fair game.

It's all very well for Poles to exercise their "right" to move to the UK and work, but smugly proclaiming that they are just here to make money to give themselves a better life back home, while spending all their spare time moaning about how bad the UK is, is guaranteed to annoy the locals, don't you think? Especially as those locals are struggling on those wages. And sorry, but "maybe they should live more like Poles" is not an acceptable reply. I know that you (or others) may reply "well, I don't care what they think" - well, that's your choice too - but if that's how someone thinks, they can't really expect to be well-received by the nation they have moved to.

And while they are exercising that right to move around the EU to find work, ordinary people in the host country are seeing rocketing rents, lower wages, higher council tax due to the money being spent on the new arrivals, and increased anti-social behaviour and crime - so are you really surprised that British are fed up and don't receive Poles as well as they used to? Especially as they know that if the roles were reversed, they would be treated FAR WORSE!


Don't worry, we do!

But after the above statement, would you really be surprised to encounter resentment? What makes YOUR generation think that you are so much better than my parents and grandparents generation, as they felt it was essential to integrate in their new country, but your generation doesn't?

OsiedleRuda
thats probably explanation why a British born Pole could not stand that pressure to be a Pole and British in one time and punched Leona Levis right in the face to show how not happy he is.

The best of it is we have a wave of polish sociologists in UK and IRL who are trying to sort the problem out and no any of them seem to even put a simple sentence on these forums.

and.....there are virtually no Poles from UK/IRL here
any clues why?

Osiedla, you are right to say that Brits will naturally not take kindly to Poles barking on about money all the time. Like Britain is a cash cow at the moment, LOL. If they don't like it, they can always leave and the same applies in reverse.

My Polish friends here are ashamed that so many numbskulls went across, the dregs if you will. They don't do Poland proud but there are those from here that would be great ambassadors, of that I am sure.

The thread has boiled down to is integration and lack of it and I'd like to point out the fact that it's not just with Poles but with all foreign nations in the UK.

I had the recent 'pleasure' of having to go to Bradford on a business trip and I walked through the city feeling the most uncomfortable I have ever felt in the UK ever ever.

Not one single face was ethnic British or ethnic Polish for that matter!