Do you think that Polish catholics resent the new German Pope?

If you are Polish then you think that you have the right to speak in the name of Poles?


Some say that JPII was too conservative. The church from its nature is a conservative organization. Benedict XVI actually made step towards Traditional Catholics basically restoring possibility of organizing traditional masses. This is step towards unification and what is more de-nationalization of the church, this is a pathology that for example caused that this thread exist. But please give some examples of "too" conservative policy of current Pope if you can?


All German children were forcibly drafted to this organization. Pope came from anti-nazi family and never supported Nazi politics. If for example your child would be raped then of course you would despise the child right?

I can't speak for Julie, lesser, but what I think of when she says "throw back policies" is something like Benedict coming out against the Harry Potter books after John Paul had approved of them. This is a small issue, I understand, but it's indicative of a larger issue. Doesn't the Catholic Church have better things to do than come out against children's books? I hear what you're saying when you say Benedict is unifying the church but John Paul was unifying the world. He reached beyond creeds and religions to all people. I'm sorry lesser, because you make good points, but for Poles like myself and apparently Julie, we're too stubbornly blinded by JPII to see anybody else.

First of all I need to write that I did not read this books, so I haven't first hand opinion. (How about you?) However some things seems to be strange to me. Every each book get exordinary attention in media outlets. To be honest I don't remember any book ever got as much attention in media, especially book for children. These free adverts are worth millions only in Poland and it seems that in other countries situation is the same. If media manipulate adults practically everyday then what would be so strange if this time children would be on target. Children easier accept prepared thesis.

Second strange event that I have heard about is author announcing that some hero from this book is a homosexual. Since when children cares about sexual preferences of book's heroes? So why the hell she suddenly decided to announce such information? Something stinks here...

According to Lifesite News this is not true that JPII approved this book.


From what I understand this was not church initiative. However it depends what one call "children's book", a message is important. A Catholic should have some trust to the Pope, especially if issue is so trivial. A Catholic should not buy this book "just in case", many others are available on the market . If you cannot trust him about stupid book then how about more important problems? Who has more authority in your eyes, Pope or talking heads in TV?


I'm not big fan of ecumenism, Catholics should have good relations with people of other religions but finally should be aware that faiths are not really equal. Otherwise they are rather heretics. Benedict XVI is a leader of the Catholic Church and not the leader of the world.


I'm more than sure that JPII would not glad if he knew that some people practice his personal cult. It has nothing to do with Catholicism.

Good points all, lesser. It's not as if I felt that JPII was above Catholicism, just that as the leader of Catholics I've put him on a unrealistically high pedestal. As far as John Paul being a world leader, I see nothing wrong in recognizing that Catholics are different than others and yet still realizing that as humans we are all the same. John Paul never forsake Catholicism while he was traveling around uniting people, he simply embraced the fact that despite differences in faith people should get along.

I had read somewhere (I'll look for the link) that if John Paul didn't approve of Harry Potter, he certainly didn't disapprove, stating more or less that imagination is good for children.

On that subject, I've only read one Harry Potter book and enjoyed it, I suppose. They certainly aren't outwardly anti-Catholic, but they are about magic and supernatural powers, some of which flies in the face of what Catholics think of God. But, I feel that kids know the difference between fiction and faith.

I have to agree with Ebony and Bathory. He's hit the nail on the head. Dumbledor was implied homosexual, but you NEVER saw him have a relationship, so it was more of teaching tolerance in her last book.

All my Christian friends understand that the books are ALL imaginary, and not to be taken literally. God gave us all imaginations - some of us utilize that for the enjoyment of all.

As for Hitler's youths - did this pope ever say he was forced into it? Is it true, you joined or died? I don't have that answer, I wasn't alive back then.

Lesser - evidently 'Talking Heads' has much more publicity than the pope. THAT is why I felt keeping in step with JP2 would've been much, much more beneficial for the Church! JP2 did many inroads, and healed much. This pope isn't going to free Poland...so tell me, other than make us lose followers, what good is he going to do?

Like I have wrote yesterday, children are not interested in sexual preferences of book's heroes. Those people who want to educate small children about these issues have sexual problems themselves. I don't buy any "tolerance" excuses.


I have wrote that it was obligatory. Beside of that if you don't know then why you spread false informations about somebody? What would you say if somebody did it to you? Julie a secret communist agent in the US spied fellow Poles?


And this is very sad news for humanity.


I would wish that he free us from this damned European Union. This is your concern as well? Still don't confuse political activity with religious leadership.


Cardinal Ratzinger was chosen to become a Pope and not Julie Potocka. So why don't you leave to him what is up to Pope to solve? Pope should do his job and you yours which does not means undermining his authority.

lesser, you just crossed the line.


THIS is a discussion about why we resent the new German Pope - I'm answering you HONESTLY, so BACK OFF!

I have every RIGHT to question the Pope's Authority, and WILL, and if QUESTIONING his AUTHORITY in your book means I'm not a good Catholic - think I personally really care? You are not my husband, brother, father, grandfather, nor great-great-grandfather. My father always liked the fact that I questioned everything.

Stay on topic, and stop attacking others.

The Catholic church must EVOLVE, not DEVOLVE - THAT IS MY POINT. And that goes down to why our JP2 was so beloved - he was Evolutionary in what he did.

If you don't like the EU, then vote against it, lobby against it - do whatever you can. But as far as I can see, Politics and Religion always are intertwined, throughout history.

Or, did you forget the past? The Christian Crusades?

I'm answering honestly as well, in my opinion you are incompetent to lecture a Pope. This is not any personal attack, I don't consider myself to be much more competent than you.


Asked what is wrong with BXVI policies you are unable provided any details just such empty slogans like above. Thus I think that you simply don't know. You have write slander against BXVI showing lack of historic knowledge, I'm afraid that you don't know more about mentioned crusades... This is just wrong to be JPII cultist. Don't you know that JPII had very god opinion about BXVI, he nominated him to be Prefect of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.


If not the EU, so from what the Pope is supposed to rescue Poland? Less religion is politics is better, this is not up to Pope to rescue any countries, he have not such competences.

Did Pope ever confirmed personaly, that he is German?

I mean, if Pope isn`t German, this topic does not have sense.

If Pope could be German, he maybe won`t be popular in Poland, at least not as JPII. But if he originates from Racowie, he could be more popular. Well, even so, maybe Tusk won`t like him then but definitely, among Poles he would have more chances.

So, did Pope Benedict ever confirmed his nationality?

For a Catholics nationality of Pope is not important, this subject doesn't stir any controversies in Poland. Sure you will always find group of idiots but they are meaningless.

I respect you brate Les and i respect all others here- my Slavic brothers and brothers in Christ

but, you must understand that i speak as St. Sava`s Orthodox.

Pope John Paul II who was Polish, had far batter chances to re-unite Catholic and Orthodox Churches then current Pope- who is maybe German or even more, who possible originates from germanized Slavs. How could i (speaking about muself) trust to him? If nationality isn`t important why is Benedict a German?

OW NO its religion popping its ugly head up again, get down, get down, the sex, love, welcoming, random chat topics are all so much better than this sort of tripe

So, you are an atheist? hedonist?

Atheist, i have no religious beliefs at all, i used to think, 'let them get on with it' but after historical/recent events i'm starting to wonder if there is any good with the continuation of religious beliefs at all.

Philosopher?

lol maybe when i'm about 85 i'll be old enough and wise enough, however i have put a little thought into it and i wouldn't just say it off hand. I suppose that if there was not religion people would still find something to fight over

Blame those who established democracy based on ethnic origin. Previously monarchies were often multi-ethnic and neither king or people cared about each other ethnic origin. We had many foreign kings and it was common practice in Europe. Please note that Vatican is NOT democratic, it has monarchical structure. Vatican don't empathize German origin of the current Pope because this is irrevelant. This fact is raised by journalists thinking in categories established on democracy based on nationality.


If you are not interested then don't read, very simple.

lesser, obviously YOU don't belong in this debate, since you are so eager to toss all of us out, who don't fit into your little cookie cutter world.

Crow said it best, I thought it was obvious, but you need it spelled out to you:


REUNITING the Catholic Church, back to its former self, from the two splintered groups it became.

I don't trust this Pope; but no fears; he will die out soon enough, replaced by another!

Third day I try to find out what is your point but you don't want to provide any details except empty slogans. You don't answer the questions at all, when I point it out you pretend to be offended victim and find it as another excuse to avoid explaining your point. You have no courage even to admit that your allegation about BXVI childhood was false. If by debate you understand avoiding answers and writing empty slogans then indeed I don't belong to such debate...

In other thread you appear to be Clinton fan, here claim to be Catholic. What is the reason of this inconsistence? You don't know Clinton political agenda or teaching of the Catholic church? Because these two things don't go along...

As far as reunion is concentrated, it is completely unrealistic to expect that a Pope (no matter who) would succeed here. If this is possible at all then this is issue of future centuries. JPII as well known anti-communist had no chance in talks with AlexyII from Russia who was an KGB agent and actually is Putin's right hand. This is not in political interest of Kremlin to extend influence of the Vatican to Russia, they already have their fully controlled religious leader.


You will be drunk from the happiness if this happen? This is kinda statement that one could not expect from a Catholic.

You are ignoring what I say, and putting words in my mouth. Typical from someone who puts words in others mouths all the time.

I expect the Pope to reunite the fractured CHURCH, duh.

Fortunately, everyone can see what you are doing, and you are shallow.

You are a fool, to say I can't support Hillary, and be a Catholic, lol. I also never said I'd be drunk with happiness over anyone's demise. The Pope is an an old man, not young.

GROW UP, and learn to listen to others with an open mind, not a closed heart.

Indeed, you have high expectation! What would you figure our if Crow would not mention this issue? :) Pope has the same chance to reunite this almost 1000 years division during his lifetime like modern pan-Slavists to create Slavdrom during their lifetimes. First of all, all sides must to be willing to reunite (in Russia they don't have even political blessing!) and what is more to overcome some important theological differences. This is highly difficult and delicate problem and not any trivial case to solve in near future. BXVI made step towards Traditional Catholics as I mentioned earlier and this mission is indeed possible to accomplish in near future.


You can be a Catholic by name only or just politically immature person. JPII who you are supposed to admire so much, called a certain element openly represented on her political platform "civilization of death". Thus you make contradictory claims, don't you see this inconsistence?


No fear Julie, no fear...

Your "polish" Pope couldn't do it either...

First Poles don't resent the German Pope, he recieved a huge audience when he visited Poland.....


The Polish pope was one of the best Popes we ever had... He improved Catholic-Jewish relations, Catholic-Muslim relations and he did accomplish a lot with Catholic-Orthodox relations.

He maybe didn't reunite the two churches but he did more than any other Pope has done to breach the differances between us.


Sure let's just follow the social downfall that's happening in western EU, not to mention it is our religion that destroyed communism. Poles are religous but they are not extreme. They love the church but also respect and love science. I think Poland has managed to find the right balance. Not saying the church is not irrational sometimes but that doesn't mean that we should throw out all the church's teachings. I am not very religous either but I can find the beauty of Polish devotion to the church.

It's not a blind devotion either... Poles question the church just as many others in western EU, but just because we don't agree with all teachings doesn't mean we disregard all else.

zenit.org/article-16955?l=english

Speech where the German Pope so called offended Islam....... He didn't lie, Islam believes in the spreading of its religion by the sword if need be. He has a right to critize such ideology. It was not expected and didn't help with Catholic-Muslim relations but it's not like he wasn't right.

Also you can't critize the Pope for serving in Hitler's youth.... These were children who did not understand the full grasp of there choices(if they even had a choice). If he served in the army than that would be another story.

Almost forgot, if you think what the Pope said about Islam(which is true) is even remotely comparable to what the immans say in there medressa's against Christians(which is 90% BS) than your ____________(adj). I'll leave that blank........mad libs anyone........

Well put, matthias. I wouldn't dream of disregarding Pope Benedict simply because he's German. But Poles, who in an inconsistent political landscape have always been consistently Catholic, had so much pride in John Paul II. Let us not forget that Solidarity might not have happened if it weren't for the elation and national pride that swelled with the Pope's election and visit in the late '70's. Polish Catholicism have survived three partitions, Nazism, and Soviet Communism, all that were out to destroy it. The Vatican, itself, abandoned Poland a few times, and yet it survived. It's not that we RESENT the German Pope, its just that John Paul II meant so much to us.

Okay, I will give on my initial prejudism against Pope Benedict being German, and in Hitler's youth, for lack of FULL information. It does appear that he just was in it, and not in the army. I was thinking of the youths near the end of the war, who fought while Hitler committed suicide. There's 100 years of Governments murdering people last century, that I called this one prematurely.

Poland was bolstered into tossing off the yoke of Communism by Pope John Paul 2, and by those working within Poland, THAT you can't deny. JP2 had a special way with saying, hey all Religions, lets accept we are different, and celebrate we can be together under the name of God. THAT touched me deeply...because Jesus did that! I'm not worshipping JP2, but he did what was right with that, and helped to heal much difficulty in the world.

Yes; the Vatican DID abandon Poland, especially during the Holocaust!! THAT was a despicable act, and I'm glad I wasn't alive to live through that, nor the Christian Crusades where they murdered innocent people. JP2 welcomed people that believed differently, not killed them!

As for Pope Benedict: No, I do not feel in my heart that he said anything wrong, in that speech that infuriated Islam, except for one important point: HE is the leader of the Catholic Church, and needs to make sure as a WORLD LEADER, that he works towards healing the world, bringing it together. JP2 got that part down pat.

What PB did AFTER that incident was apologize for bringing it up. There, I have to say, if he were still a Cardinal, he could have stood his ground. But, he's the Pope, and not longer allowed to be the Rottweiler of the Church; he must be beyond that.

So, yes; you all won me over from my initial knee-jerk reaction.

I will read his speeches, then give you my feedback on them. I do wish the Pope WAS younger - and not so old. Hopefully, he can keep his health up. Many have lived long and productive lives.

Bravo, Julie. I don't think there's anything wrong with Poles having a special place for JPII that no other man or Pope can replace. He meant so much to Poland, for us there is John Paul II and then there is every other Pope. No disrespect, but JPII is on a different level.

Also nicely put.........


To be honest I also had that initial reaction, but when I sat down and thought about it I realized the complicated reality of the day...


Agreed, Benedict should have focused on the positives not negatives between Catholics and Muslims as JP did, but it was not as such a big deal as everybody made it seem. Also it was the Pope's first year, he's no JP and probably will never be, but I think we should give him some time to learn the ropes. Filling JP's shoes is not easy....


Cult, what cult..... If you consider love for the Pope and what he has done a cult, than I guess all I have to say is sign me up


because he was born in Germany.... why in Germany, that you will have to ask God....


What inconsistency.... You can be a Catholic and vote Clinton..... what are you saying a Catholic can only vote for a Catholic. Good explanation is, she doesn't agree with all of Clinton's views or she doesn't agree with all of the churches views. Doesn't mean she can't support both.

I support Obama and he's muslim ...... Good people can be found in all faiths.

Sign me up too, woohoo!


And I'm looking forward to either the Obama/Hillary, or Hillary/Obama ticket, either of which I feel will be a clear cut winner. Hillary has already offered the olive branch, all Obama need do is take it.

This might be odd and impossible, but I would support a Obama/McCain ticket... Nothing better would be for this country than a President and a Vice President from two differant parties... Would go a long way to heal the divisions in Politics.

Parties should be in competition but a healthy competition and not the dirt you see now... they should realize when it's time for the competition to be over and when it's time to work together for the common good. IMO

Now Im not naive and realize this could backfire.... If the parties can't agree there could be a stalemate... However I have enough faith that with so much at stake, parties will have no choice but to find common ground....

Worst case scenerio the President can override the VP if they can't agree....

Now since this is impossible my next choice would be what Juilie said.........

So, you want to say that God was behind germanization? Christian God?

well, i can accept that way of thinking only if germanization was temptation for Slavs, imposed on us by God

by anology, those Slavs who were germanized live in sin.

Now, you maybe want to say that Pope Benedict live in sin (if he has Slavic origin)?