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The Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, refused to sign the Treaty of Lisbon


espana 17 | 910  
1 Jul 2008 /  #1
The prime minister of Poland, the liberal Donald Tusk, has assured that his country is interested in signing the Treaty despite the rejection of Ireland, while hours before the Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, had assured statements in the Dziennik daily that Poland will not sign the text because it makes no sense.

We are convinced that the ratification of the Treaty is what most interests us.
It is difficult to accept a situation where Poland could be problematic in the same position of Ireland .The Polish president said that previously rejected signing the agreement on the grounds that the current situation is very different from a few months ago.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7482660.stm
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Jul 2008 /  #2
It's a bit late in the day to be stalling. If Kaczyński had got off his fat a*s a bit sooner, proceedings would be at a more advanced and decided stage.

And the situation may well change again, what then? One foot in, one foot out sitting on the fence is against the spirit of the treaty.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
1 Jul 2008 /  #3
There is nothing left to sign becasue Lisbon is dead. The Lisbon Treaty was nullified by the Irish referendum outcome. According to the EU's own rules, unanimous acceptance was required for teh Treaty to go into force. In the same way, French and Dutch voters killed the EU Constituion a few years ago. Of course Brussels may try to use some legal ruse and follow Hitler's and Stalin's precedents of changing the law to suit its own political aims--the preservation of lucrative, fat-cat jobs for a growing army of eurocrats..
Jukrek - | 58  
1 Jul 2008 /  #4
With the coming in force of the Lisbon Treaty, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will be forced to indirectly finance the controversial Northern European gas pipeline that is possibly going to be built under the Baltic Sea, LETA writes.

balticbusinessnews.com/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=2d56dc0d-396b-475e-9630-b26bc4594307
Crow 146 | 9,105  
1 Jul 2008 /  #5
Poland should secure its flank and rear in case that things with EU becomes ugly.

Poles, you know what that mean?

It means that official Poland should immidiately annul recognition of separation of Kosovo from Serbia.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
1 Jul 2008 /  #6
I always have said that Poland is our ultimate and faithful ally in partition of EU.
Crow 146 | 9,105  
1 Jul 2008 /  #7
your comments does not helping.

Poles, listen to me. Listen to Racowie!

Press your politicians to annul recognition of Kosovo separation from Serbia and annul it with maximum (!!!) echoes in Serbian public media. Serbian people won`t fail you. Your rear (Russia) is our problem then and also we would succesfully deal with rising German presentse in the region and with German satelites here.

Just play on Racowie! Remember that

Sarmatia!
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
1 Jul 2008 /  #8
Insted, let's divide something else, Belgia, Spain, GB, Ukraine, Italy...BTW, Poland too has taisty pieces.
noimmigration  
1 Jul 2008 /  #9
Viva le Lech Kaczynski
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
1 Jul 2008 /  #10
Lisbon Treaty

Die bi*tch...
Crow 146 | 9,105  
1 Jul 2008 /  #11
Insted, let's divide something else, Belgia, Spain, GB, Ukraine, Italy...

screw them.

BTW, Poland too has taisty pieces.

Poland isn`t on `menu`

We can`t speak about prosperious Slavic Alliance or Union having dissoluted Poland. Strong and united Poland is important to Poles and, to Serbs. Ruski brate, zapamti to. (Руски брате, запамти то!)
plk123 8 | 4,149  
1 Jul 2008 /  #12
this has nothing to do with anything neither would it be a good move. poland supports others' right to self determination.
pawian 177 | 14,533  
1 Jul 2008 /  #13
It turns out again what inconsequent fool Kaczynski is. He negotiated the Lisbon Treaty last year with other EU countries` leaders and when the negotiations finished with a compomise, he put his signature on the treaty.

Today he is threatening to reject it. Surely such inconsequence won`t help him win more suport from Poles, which is already quite low.

I know he is playing a game with his political rival PM Tusk. Tusk`s government are a bit reluctant to the project of the rocket shield installation, they prolong their negotiations with Americans, while Kaczynski and his party are wholeheartedly for it. I suppose that soon we will witness an attempt at negotiations between Tusk and Kaczynski - Lisbon Treaty for the shield.
WooPee 1 | 124  
1 Jul 2008 /  #14
It's not that sure. He didn't say anything like "I won't sign it". It's just how the newspapers has interprated his words.
Crow 146 | 9,105  
1 Jul 2008 /  #15
politika je velika kurva. Somebody already said it
ski 7 | 140  
1 Jul 2008 /  #16
It's not that sure. He didn't say anything like "I won't sign it". It's just how the newspapers has interprated his words

He said that he is not going to make preasure on Irealnd. when Ireland will sign it he will do it as well.
Crow 146 | 9,105  
2 Jul 2008 /  #17
when Ireland will sign it he will do it as well.

its nice that you think about me but, i didn`t say above quotation
ski 7 | 140  
2 Jul 2008 /  #18
it was mistake
Puzzy 1 | 150  
2 Jul 2008 /  #19
The Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, refused to sign the Treaty of Lisbo

- But so did the German President Koehler and the Czech President Klaus. And yet the media psychopaths and racists - also in Germany! - have been slamming only the Polish President. The German media nazis are depicting Poland as the chief hampering influence to the unification of Europe. Also, the French President Sarkozy has had some very harsh words only for the Polish President for not signing the Treaty (he suggested Kaczynski was an immoral liar). Therefore it seems Kaczynski is right not to sign the Treaty. Maybe we Poles should pull out altogether from this club of Polonophobes that the EU seems to be?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jul 2008 /  #20
Not really Puzzy, he lambasted him because he was sitting on the fence, perhaps anticipating a negative outcome for Poland. This is why the Brits are not happy with u too. U've gotta accept the bad with the good.

Maybe it would serve a useful purpose comparing what u signed to in May 2004 with what currently exists now and see if the Lisbon Treaty is really so fraught/laden with pitfalls.

Trzeba trochę zaufania. The EU was borne out of comity principles, not a collective kitty smash and grab approach.
ski 7 | 140  
2 Jul 2008 /  #21
Puzzy do you live in Poland ?
pawian 177 | 14,533  
2 Jul 2008 /  #22
- But so did the German President Koehler and the Czech President Klaus.

Your info is not correct. Koehler hasn`t refused anything, he is still waiting for the decree of the German Court, trying to establish if the Treaty is in accordance with the German Constitution. But signing it will be a formality.

And yet the media psychopaths and racists - also in Germany! - have been slamming only the Polish President.

The Czech Republic doesn`t matter, while Poland is a heavyweight player among newly acepted countries. If Poland rejects the treaty, it will be a major setback.

Also, the French President Sarkozy has had some very harsh words only for the Polish President for not signing the Treaty (he suggested Kaczynski was an immoral liar).

Was Sarkozy wrong? Kaczynski is a liar who last yeart negotiated the treaty and today rejects it.... If immoral or just stupid, it is still to decide.... :):)

Maybe we Poles should pull out altogether from this club of Polonophobes that the EU seems to be?

Good. You may pull out. I am staying and other Poles too....:):):)
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
2 Jul 2008 /  #23
Well well done to Mr Lech Kaczynski, probably the first thing he's done right in a while, we don't want to be controlled by Brussels thank you very much, that goes for the WHOLE of Europe.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jul 2008 /  #24
Britain hasn't lost all sovereignty. Has the EU negatively impacted on ur life so directly tornado?
Puzzy 1 | 150  
2 Jul 2008 /  #25
Your info is not correct. Koehler hasn`t refused anything

- Oh yes, he has refused to sign the Treaty. If Kaczynski is required to sign the Treaty despite the fact the Irish have rejected it in a referendum, then Koehler should be required to sign the Treaty despite its being taken to court by the German left-wingers.

The Czech Republic doesn`t matter

- Why not? Are the Czechs less equal than others?

while Poland is a heavyweight player among newly acepted countries

- How 'heavy' a player is Poland, according to you?

If Poland rejects the treaty, it will be a major setback

- What do you specifically mean by 'a major setback'? So you mean the fact the Irish have rejected the Treaty isn't a major setback? Why not? And do you mean that if Poles rejected the Treaty it would be a major setback? Why is that?

Was Sarkozy wrong? Kaczynski is a liar who last yeart negotiated the treaty and today rejects it.... If immoral or just stupid, it is still to decide.... :):)

- Facts show that Kaczynski only suggested that since the Irish have rejected the Treaty then the Treaty does not matter any longer, and so doesn't Kaczynski's signing or not signing the Treaty. Isn't it absurd - and possibly dangerous - to sign an invalid document? Signing an invalid document is lying that the document is valid. Kaczynski's words seem to me rational and truthful. Now how about the folks such as Sarkozy who demand that Kaczynski sign the invalid document? Aren't they up to some big lie?

Good. You may pull out. I am staying and other Poles too....:):):)

- Save us God from 'Poles' like yourself. An advocate of liars, slanderer of Polish President - that's who you appear to be. You're actually a Polonophobe. You say you're a history teacher in Krakow? I can imagine what 'history' you 'teach' the kids.

probably the first thing he's done right in a while

- Really? What wrong things did he do before?
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
2 Jul 2008 /  #26
Britain hasn't lost all sovereignty. Has the EU negatively impacted on ur life so directly tornado?

has it effected me??? yes, too right, finding a good place to live in exeter for a start. The more immigrants that come here the more housing is taken up so they can work, study, commit crime or whatever they want to do.

Secondly, getting part time jobs that pay well, since the influx of immigrants it seems the wages have been slightly lowered while inflation rockets!!!

My lectures turning into three hour sessions instead of two because some of the EU students can't speak english properly, hence we have 2 hours on subject and one hour on translation, lol.

My girlfriends are not always english nowadays, i mean i've been with a few girls who are from outside of the UK. Damb that had effected my life for sure :):).

There are countless laws, human rights, working time directive etc etc and the list goes on.

A higher percentage of 'rude' people as i don't think the 'p's' and 'q's' are the biggest part of many eastern european languages, JUST GIVE ME A SMILE WHEN YOU SERVE ME THATS NOT ASKING A LOT IS IT!!!!!!.

ok so some of these points are trivial i know that however in there are some serious issues and i'm sure if i sat and thought about it properly i could come up with a lot more, ow and did i mention the road deaths caused by drunk or drivers that are falling a sleep, was that a polish license plate on the truck :):)):)
Puzzy 1 | 150  
2 Jul 2008 /  #27
Not really Puzzy, he lambasted him because he was sitting on the fence, perhaps anticipating a negative outcome for Poland

- In the above phrase, you're saying something metaphorically. State it, please, in a matter-of-fact manner. What do you mean by 'sitting on the fence, perhaps anticipating a negative outcome for Poland'? Can you give any pertinent facts in this respect?

U've gotta accept the bad with the good

- And what specifically do you mean by this?

The EU was borne out of comity principles, not a collective kitty smash and grab approach.

- Do you mean we Poles have 'a collective kitty smash and grab approach' to EU? Any evidence to support your claim? Oh, and thank you so much for your full-of-superiority yet unsolicited preaching to us on what the EU is and isn't.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jul 2008 /  #28
Matter-of-factly, ok, while I concede that everyone can be afforded a change of heart, this is a little different. Kaczyński proceeded along a certain road during the preliminary negotiations and also came with some degree of compromise in him. However, latterly he has been recalcitrant, perhaps due to some Europhobe whispering nonsense in his ear. U must be decisive and stick 2 ur guns in politics. He has been wavering more than a schizophrenic kite ;)

I meant, from that 2nd point, that there will be a rock or 2 somewhere along the smooth path. Kaczyński must accept some degree of setback or sacrifice in order to encapsulate the spirit of the treaty. The Poles have prospered immeasurably in some areas as a result of EU intervention. In simple terms, a bit of give and take would be appreciated.

I mean that we should not forget the fundamental essence of the EU, from its origins being the EEC (1957) or even the ECSC (1953). Comity in international affairs cannot be understated. I maybe implied that the Poles leech but, frankly speaking, I have little solid evidence to back it up. It wasn't my intention to say that, merely to issue a caveat that we shouldn't overstep the balance of thrusting national affairs into what is a supranational institution.
Puzzy 1 | 150  
2 Jul 2008 /  #29
this is a little different

- And why is that that when Kaczynski doesn't sign it's suddenly 'different'? Why can't it be the same and equal whether Kaczynski or Koehler or any one else signs or doesn't sign the Treaty?

Kaczyński proceeded along a certain road during the preliminary negotiations and also came with some degree of compromise in him

- This selfsame thing can perhaps be said about any of the folks who negotiated the Treaty, can't it?

However, latterly he has been recalcitrant, perhaps due to some Europhobe whispering nonsense in his ear.

- What do you specifically mean by Kaczynski's being 'recalcitrant'? Give facts, please.

U must be decisive and stick 2 ur guns in politics. He has been wavering more than a schizophrenic kite ;)

- You're again talking metaphorically. What do you specifically mean?

I meant, from that 2nd point, that there will be a rock or 2 somewhere along the smooth path

- I take it you mean:' there will be difficulties'? If yes, then what difficulties?

Kaczyński must accept some degree of setback or sacrifice in order to encapsulate the spirit of the treaty.

- Do you mean Kaczynski hasn't accepted some setback or sacrifice? What setback and sacrifice could that be? Hasn't he accepted the Irish 'no' as a setback? What do you mean by 'encapsulate the spirit of the treaty'?

The Poles have prospered immeasurably in some areas as a result of EU intervention.

- Specifically where have the Poles 'prospered immesurably' thanks to the EU? Do you mean the EU has been doing the Poles a favour, without taking anything back? Do you mean: 'EU has been feeding you, ungrateful beggars'?

I maybe implied that the Poles leech but, frankly speaking, I have little solid evidence to back it up.

- So you admit you cannot prove Poles have 'a collective kitty smash and grab approach' to EU?
:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jul 2008 /  #30
My point is that Kaczyński should have voiced his reservations at an earlier stage. Any concerns should have been aired then.

Kaczyński is playing political Russian roulette, playing with Tusk and being stubborn. One wonders how he would have behaved had his twin still been in office.

What do I mean? Clear as I can be, he lacks commitment

The greatest diffculty will be overcoming the intransigence that is taking hold.

The spirit of the treaty is one where nations come together to share and reach broad consensus on a range of issues. By opting out, this jeopardises the very fabric of it.

Don't try and push me into a corner, I've already told u that I don't have hard facts to support a claim that the Poles are draining resources from EU funds. What I do know is that the Polish govt has received numerous set-up grants which have been beneficial and efficacious. Look into the allegations of money mismanagement tho. Some accounting was a bit 'skewed' shall we say. Funds were allocated but the necessary work wasn't done, e.g road re-construction.

How can admit that which I'm not even trying to prove? It remains true that Poland has dipped into the coffers quite leisurely at times but if procedure allows it, then why not? U r picking the wrong guy to scrap with, I'm broadly pro-Poland and I merely go with what I know, or what I think I know, LOL

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