What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

Please stop with the lies.

303 squadron was in no way under the control of communists and representatives of that squadron (along with representatives of other Polish squadrons) were invited to the London parade.

Just give up on this point: your Plastic Pole myth has been exposed as a lie. End of story.

We are talking about facts that Britain is aware of, if you get a chance you should read this as it gives back ground.


polishsquadronsremembered.com/Victory_parade.html

Even when having fought alongside a country you still manage to wind them up to such an extent that all they want to do is turn their back on you

Sad

But undeniably true

Such a lie!!! Another fallacy. HOW, exactly, did Poland "wind" up Britain?
It's just a lame excuse certain Britons use to justify themselves.

Thats not what I said. Read carefully before you jump to the defence of your parents' people

Second thoughts lead to an edit, huh

Thats what happens when you speak without thinking

Be carefull because you only dig a deeper hole

You are either amazingly stupid or the worst liar in the world.

The very source which you hold up as proof of your stance clearly states that free Poles were invited to the London parade!

Look:


If you can not understand those words, I am very sorry for your children.

Journalism isnt history ffs!

How can I make you understand, only the pilots is not,


Just the pilots of 303, they refused to march without their comrades of the army and navy.

How can I make you understand: some free Poles were invited to the London parade?! The fact that they refused to go just proves they were invited.

At no time have I claimed that all free Poles were invited. However, many times Poles (and Plastic Poles) have claimed that no free Poles were invited, or even that no Poles at all were invited.

Well. whatever the reason Poles must have felt slighted or they wouldn't complain.

Poles need a reason to complain? Since when?!

A more likely explanation would be that Poles saw an opportunity to complain about 'western betrayal' and the story about not being invited to the parade became accepted as truth in certain Polish circles. Even now they can not face up to the actual truth and so cling to straws about not everybody being invited or about how the invitation was given in a way in which it had to be refused. See this thread for evidence of that.

I cannot believe how cold. You can't be serious!!! I will never understand you Europeans.

The way I see it the Polish have been silenced by "communist" control for far to long. The worst part is that now that they are free, many have already passed away. This is why today the number of ones speaking out are the children of the actual victims. We also lived with our families past due to how it affected them.

After my research in our history my heart sunk learning the way my loved ones were treated. My first thought was, "no one can treat my Dad/family like that". Well yes they can, in fact they did and it's a crime that they (Soviet military)were never held accountable for.

Do I blame Britain for not doing enough? Not the Britain of today, no I do not. I do place blame on the false promises, lies and the fact we were betrayed. Not just on Britain but US, Russia, Germany, Ukraine amonst others. I firmly believe in order to have peace in the future, the "full true history" must be in the books. Not just the pretty versions that makes everyone feel good about the actions they are responsible for.

Face it Harry Britain was scared shitless of what Stalin might think of Poles participating in the victory parade. Britain could not act otherwise because of the agreements made between the big 3 at Yalta conference settling the final division of Europe. The 303 squadron was the only Polish unit invited despite your claim. It was a token of appreciation extended to the Poles by the British government feeling confident enough that this action will not antagonize Soviets. The free Polish Armed Forces in the West served in all branches of armed forces. Men of 303 showed respect to the rest of their countryman by declining this invitation if you can even call it that (note neither did the men of 303 nor most of the people today perceive this as an invitation). Britain could not afford to piss Stalin off and inviting the free Poles could be misinterpreted by the Soviets as an official support of the Polish Government in exile despite the agreements signed and commitments made.

Keeping this in mind; I extend my invitation to you Harry for New Year party which will be held at my house and celebrated by all of my friends who for the most part are Polish. As you have said since most of the Plastic Poles that will attend this party misunderstand your action back then they would be deeply offended by your presents there. To keep the peace I can't seat you over at the main table with the rest of the guests, but there will be a place set for you at the kitchen table. You will still be served the same dishes as my other guests and enjoy same drinks so you can celebrate the arrival of the New Year in a proper manner as the rest of us. BTW this invitation is only given to you and you alone, the rest of your family can't come (this might further offend my other guests). I'm looking forward seeing you there, I'm sure you will have a great time, Please join us.

Oh yes, I'm sure that the British government looked out at the Red Army lined up on the cliffs outside Calais, took one look at the might of the Soviet Navy and airforce, and shat themselves. Oh, sorry, the Red Army was where? And how many countries were between there and the UK? And the Soviet navy consisted of how many invasion craft? And the Americans (with millions of men in the UK) would have done what in the face of invasion? And the Soviets had how many nukes?

Yes, I am sure that the UK put 'what Stalin will think' right at the top of the priority list. That is why they proposed forcing the use of Soviet bases for resupplying the Warsaw uprising, right?


Please quote the part of the Yalta treaty related to inviting people to parades. Oh, sorry, you can't, because you are just making shit up yet again.


Source? We've had Poles and Plastic Poles claim repeatedly that no Poles or no free Poles were invited. Unfortunately the sources show that Polish airmen who took part in the BoB were invited. And do note that these are not my 'claims', they are the statements of people who were there at the time and are critical of the British government.


Isn't this the same government that was “ scared shitless of what Stalin might think of Poles participating in the victory parade”? So they were really scared but they still invited free Poles. Nice of you to admit to the real facts.


You really want to discuss the contribution of the Polish navy after they conducted Operation Run Away before a shot was fired? Sorry, I mean “the Peking Plan”.


Of course they couldn't actually show any respect to the people who had fed, clothed and housed them, as well as paying for every plane they flew and every bullet they fired from November 1939 to 1942. Oh no.


So that would explain why no free Poles were invited, yes? Because inviting them might be seen as support and Britain couldn't risk pissing Stalin off. So that is why no free Poles were invited. What's that? Free Poles were invited and even you admit (now) that they were? Well, doesn't that prove your case to be what is technically referred to as 'bullshit'?


That is very kind of you. I do have other plans that evening and have accepted other invitations for then, but if you can give me the details of where and when, I'll try my best to look in at your celebration.

Alternatively, I can tell you to shove your invite and then bitch and lie for the next 63 years about how I wasn't invited. You tell me: what would be the honourable thing to do? What would a true Pole do?

Actually, it's logical that Poles would be given the cold shoulder. (although I don't agree with it) At the time, being warmer and friendlier to anti communists would have sent a clear message to Stalin. Perhaps Britain was concerned how this would look? This was before the start of the cold war, after all. No one knew things would chill the way they did later. Maybe Britain's hope was having an ally in the Soviets? Why not be honest? Soviets were powerful, what interest would Britain have in alienating them? Although it did happened, eventually. Just be honest about Britain's role. They were as political as anyone else at the time.

Strange irony is, by giving Poland the cold shoulder, Britain, inadvertently, might have been swaying more in Poland toward Soviet control, thinking they had no ally in the British. Considering how Britain, France and US failed Poland and other eastern European countries during WWII, maybe they had a reason to believe this?

It might have been logical, it might not. Unfortunately the discussion is utterly pointless because Poles (both free and official govt) were invited to the London parade.


Probably not, seeing as Poles (both free and official govt) were invited to the London parade.


That would be a masterly point were it not for one tiny little fact: Poles (both free and official govt) were invited to the London parade.

If that's the case, why do so many Poles say otherwise? There must be a descrepancy somewhere or Poles would not complain. Why would Poles make it up and complain without any reason? There must be some validity to it.

Poland, Yugoslavia, and the U.S.S.R. were not represented among the allies at the parade. That is a fact. Why was that? What message did that send?

In my earlier post I included France in my lists of countries who failed but I question this. I don't think France failed. France made an effort.

Who know? Or cares? I certainly don't.


You don't know much about Poles, do you?


Most of them don’t know that the myth is a myth: they think it is true. It forms one of their cornerstones in their theory of western betrayal. The theory goes like this: The fact that Poland was over-run in a few weeks by a neighbour is not the Poles’ fault. They shouldn’t have tried to avoid war by letting the Germans have a Germany city and land access between the two parts of Germany. They should have fought and did fight. The reason they lost is that the British betrayed them! And when asked for an example of this a good Pole talks of the London parade.


The message that the USSR did not want them there? The only reason that Poland was not represented was that both sets of Poles who were invited didn’t bother to show up.

Harry you are just posting to be anti polish. Your objective is to bash Poles. Poland had no obligation to hand over Gdańsk to das deutsches. Besides, I don't think it would matter much if they did. I don't think das Deutsches wanted to fight a war for Gdańsk and Gdańsk alone.

You are neglecting to address:

In August, 1939, an agreement of mutual assistance was signed between Great Britain and Poland. It also involved Northern Ireland.
U.K. and Northern Ireland pledged to help Poland if Poland were attacked.

This was the real reason. Das Deutsches felt threatened by this alliance.

You haven't a leg to stand on now, Harry. That agreement explains Britain's obligation to Poland. No denying it!!!

Link to info on french/british betrayal of Poland:

worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/history/polandbetrayal.htm

"all the support and assistance in its power."

No declaration of war required but we did it anyway cus we're such nice guys.

Apart from the fact that
a) Danzig was not a Polish city;
b) 98% of the people in Danzig were German;
c) the people of Danzig wanted to be in Germany.


We've already discussed this agreement. The question of precisely what support and assistance Britain could have offered to Poland but failed to offer to Poland is one which Poles and Plastic Poles have been avoiding for the entire 27 pages of this thread!

Britain should have invaded Germany!!!! That is the assistance. Anything short of ground invasion was inadequate. Being home to the government in exile simply wasn't enough.

As far as Gdańsk goes, it doesn't matter. Germans and Poles share land around the borders of the two countries. This is an example of past European confusion. Let's look at a place in the US, Texas. Let's say El Paso Texas is 95% Mexican. I don't know if it is but that's really close. It is so close to Mexico but it's in the US. Lots of Mexicans live there. Does that mean the US should give El Paso to Mexico??? Does the US owe Mexico El Paso just because lots of Mexicans chose to and choose to live there?

It's absurd!!! It's the same thing!!! EXACTLY THE SAME PRINCIPLE.

Okay, let's go a step further. Lots of Mexicans living in El Paso, Texas. Suddenly Mexico decides they want El Paso. The Mexican authority suddenly demands El Paso from the US on the basis that most who live there are Mexican. They might not even be citizens of Mexico, they just have their roots in Mexico. Their heritage is Mexican, and their language, culture...you get the idea. Do you really think the US is going to hand over El Paso to Mexico on such demands????

It's completely absurd.
Using the same argument Germany used in favor of aquiring Gdańsk, do you think Mexico would gain El Paso from the US with the same argument? Okay, let's say by some outrageous fluke it works and Mexico gets El Paso because it's mostly Mexican. They get Austin to listen, and Washington DC. Representatives listen to both sides and decide El Pasons wants to be Mexican and they can belong to Mexico.

Suddenly Mexico realizes all it has to do is make a big enough demand and they can aquire towns from the US. They decide to try for Del Rio, Langtry, etc. They get those using the same argument, mostly Mexican.

Where does it end? What if the US decided to move a bunch of Americans to London and then demand London belong to the US. Why not, it's mostly American. Does the US get London because of that??? It's lame. It's not a valid reason.

Invaded how exactly? An amphibious attack on Hamburg perhaps?


No. It is not the same principle. In 1939 Danzig was not in Poland. Danzig had not been a part of Poland for some 600 years. It was a German city which had been in Germany for the vast majority of its existence and was inhabited by Germans. It was not Polish.

Britain should have invaded Germany, LOL. That's one of the most historically naive comments I've ever heard.

Britain needed rowing boats and rubber dinghys to get its forces out of Dunkirk but a full scale invasion into the heart of Germany should have been its next step?

Brilliant.

By March of 1939 Britain was equipped to go to war and promised to defend Poland. In January 1939, the navy had been strengthened and production of planes had been increased; in February, defence spending was increased to £580 million. If Britain could do all that, why couldn't they invade Germany???? They could have if they really wanted to. No excuses!!

I've had enough of your ignorance! Please take your idiotic comments elsewhere, and stop giving real Poles a bad name!

She is Polish? I don't think so! I thought you said you weren't a real Pole too, Filios.

Aha, so we have to invest our vast resources so quickly? Gutrot, ever heard of strategic timing? Go and read Bob Woodward's book on American military planning. It takes a long time to put things in place.

Another moaning Polka, why didn't Poland look for a Slavic pact? LOL

American Pole I believe...


Half, but born and raised in Poland... I can call myself a Pole.