What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

There has to be some reason that almost every nation which deals with Poland ends up deciding to either invade Poland or stab it in the back. Could the reason be that Poles get what they deserve?

Based on this thread the answer would have to be 'most certainly possible'.

If Britian marched through Germany to get to Poland, there would have been more casualities on German soil, not Polish.

Well, Poland can see itself as lucky to get itself out of communism. It was under the elusive spell of it for decades. Thanks to £ech Wałęsa and others, it freed itself from its clutches.

Poland's response? To criticise Wałęsa and level unsubstantiated allegations against him. Nice, not!! :(

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can justify an entire nation ending up in a gulag. That's insane.

Well then, its just like being british then!!!!!!!!
Enough. You have taught me nothing that I already dont know, you cant even prove that the lame statements you make about WW2 british troops are true; its time to stop feeding the troll. Go hide in your hole.

... then Germany would have won, quite simply. Then Western Europe would have been finished.

Did France not declare war on Germany on the same day as Britain? Did France not save Poland? So where does this double standard come from?

lol... please Seanus, spare us this garbage. Do you even know the facts behind this?
Wałęsa has his feet deep in shit with undisputable evidence that he was wrapped up with former Commies. There are dozens of others just like him that are just as worthy to be the symbol of Solidarnosc and a Nobel Peace Prize, which in my mind isn't much anyway, and who kept themselves honest while doing so.


I don't know, and I don't care for it, either. Could someone just close this fucking topic before my head explodes?

Refused to fight altogether. That's an option as well

Britian, France, and the rest of western Europe could have fought Germany. Britian has always been the most influential but didn't show much leadership.

australianwargraves.org/countries/poland.php

I've got a bottle you can break and use.

Garbage? What garbage? Enlighten me. Wałęsa was exonerated in numerous defences. Snotty little brats like Divvy Duck tried to implicate him in scandal after scandal. Spare me Filios, this I've covered and there has been no proof beyond reasonable doubt that he was involved in dodgy affairs.

[/quote]

They declared war on Germany after it invaded


Poland survives that's the main thing. What's more it looks like we're allowed to say fucking on here as well. Right on.. free speech.

France has had times of greater power. Look at what Napoleon did. He thrived on luck to a great extent, and so did Britain in its dealings with him. As for British leadership, at the start of the war, a certain Neville Chamberlain was prime minister of Britain, and not Winston Churchill who was a very different kind of person.

So, if Britain did, yet France did not betray Poland at the start of the war, how can this discrepancy be explained?

At the end of the war in Europe - that is another story, however, most of this argument recently has been about 1939.

Is it too early to ask what is the answer for the present day?


Hear hear! Or should I say: hear fackin hear!
Damn accent!

CONCLUSION

Poland should not have counted on direct aid from France or England, and should have instead concentrated on a Soviet defensive pact in the mid 30's.

England obviously was in no position to provide assistance in Septmber 1939, and any military assistance which was given, was understandably negligeable.

France surrendered and the Vimy government collaborated with the Nazi's. Why isn't anyone angry with France, if they are angry with England?

Polish armies fled after putting up a good fight, to avoid sure imprisonment and death, to go fight in almost every other WW2 theatre, and were key contributors in many battles and operations. What were they fighting for? Obviously, a free Poland, which is undeniably linked to a free England, free France etc...

Moral of the story: EVERYONE ALWAYS LOOKS AFTER THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS FIRST

Now, can we just shut this topic now? The longer it goes on, the more I am embarassed for all of your behaviour.

Read what you copy and paste... And use that bottle on your empty, stubborn melon.
No British died on Polish soil in combat during WW2... It lists some british prisoners of war that were relocated from Germany.

It may look like that in Quebec or New Orleans, but since I don't live in either place I turn to Britian because they have a greater influence in Europe and a better military than France. Britian could have talked France into joining an offensive with other European allies if they wanted to.

Soviet defence pact, LOL. What utter garbage!! Merely buying time.

Yeah, this coming from a guy who thinks Wałęsa is innocent of all charges... amusing.

Show me the proof, I'll be glad to refute it. Pass it to Lech, he'll laugh you off

lol... ok, Seanus. Just tell me one thing, because I really don't want to argue with a ill-informed person right now.

Can you give me one good reason as to why Wałęsa hired former communists from the SB as bodyguards after he came to power? The same men that had just been his guards while he was imprisoned?

Are you serious? You honestly think that would have been possible? Poland didn't want to be invaded by the Soviets and dreaded that worst of all. They weren't in any position to make a defense pact with them.

No. I am very practical in my outlook. The Soviets would have invaded Poland regardless. My point is that if the Poles were allied to Soviet Russia in 39, the end result would have been milder treatment for Polish prisoners on the Eastern Front. Perhaps it would not have changed the result in 1945, but Poles would have suffered sufficiently less. Give up the territory, and let Russian troops occupy the area to deter Hitler. Ride the Soviet bear out as long as you can.

- Churchill promised to fight for Polish independence if Polish troops would unite and help fighting against Germans. Thats ONE
- French did not try to mask Katyn massacre like Churchill did - that would entirely change the face of enemy for Polish troops. TWO
- French did not kill Sikorski. THREE
- French did not sell us out in Yalta.

Lesson learned.

I agree with HatefulBunch. Pure lunacy. Ill-informed, coming from the guy who proposed a Soviet pact. Why, was this Slavic brotherhood? LOL

Maybe he needed protection from whoever could offer it?! It was a system of dubious loyalty. Everything was not as it seemed.

Again, where's your proof?

So tell me, you think that with full Russian occupation, Poland would have lost the millions of lives it did by fighting both the Nazi's and Russian's, and having to suffer barbaric occupation from both?

I think you fail to take into account how early certain agendas were formed. The sinister deeds were gonna happen anyway. The fight had to happen and a meaningless pact with Russia wouldn't have changed it. Russia's plans for Poland were deeply entrenched, sad but true!!

Can you answer my question? I am a practical person.

My question, would Poland have lost as many lives in a full Soviet occupation?
Strictly numbers.

Would the Soviets still agree on sharing Poland with Germany if they were ceded this territory in early 1939?

Do you have any idea what the Soviet plan was for Poland? Maybe it was like the Nazis? Maybe it was a conspiracy? Soviets might have done the same, regardless. They weren't exactly "nice", either.

I don't enter into conjectural speculation. The answer, probably not.

Maybe a novus actus interveniens could have changed everything. We just don't know.

I see where you are coming from though. I just don't quite share your enthusiasm.

You see, this is the difference. Russian plans for Poland did not include a mass extermination as in Hitler's agenda.
Polish intelligentsia was to go, of course. A must purge in Stalin's plans, even in Russia. It would surely not have been pretty, but a lot less harsh than Hitler nonetheless.

I would take my chances with the psychotic Stalin, anyday, before Hitler.