Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / News  % width 32

What Poland has with USA global schemes?


Crow 139 | 8,312  
14 Sep 2008 /  #1
i would like to ask- Where is Polish interest in global USA schemes?

Following logic that USA/EU represent best solution for Poland, official Poland was even ready: to send polish troops to died far from Poland- on foreign soil, to violate international low, to take part in `missile shield`, etc, etc.

I would like to ask- Is there any reason why Poland so blindely follow USA/EU policy? any reason deeper then just money?

See this comment...

Barely two weeks after joining NATO, Poland found the alliance at war. Seen from Warsaw, this was not only a threatening development but also an ironic one. NATO membership was an achievement long sought. Membership was seen as ensuring Poland' stability and security, both symbolically and in actual fact, confirming that it had rejoined the West. The new concern, however, made Poland look not west but south, and instead of basking in the comfort of security guarantees, the country was asked to do some guaranteeing of its own.

Source: Eastern Europe After Kosovo
Splintered Unity: Polish Politics and the Crisis
Konstanty Gebert


now, one of `newest` USA scheme...

He presented his credentials before President Evo Morales on October 13, 2006; but three months before his arrival in Bolivia, when he was still in Pristina fulfilling his role as head of the US mission in Kosovo, it was already being said that the new US ambassador designated by George Bush for this Andean country, Philip Goldberg, would come to take part in the separatist process that was being cultivated in the background to pierce the Bolivian regime.

Source:
From Pristina to La Paz: Expelled US Ambassador to Bolivia had been in charge of Kosovo Secession
The Balkanisation of Bolivia
by Wilson GarcĂ­a Mérida
plk123 8 | 4,150  
14 Sep 2008 /  #2
NATO and USA are not 100% synonymous.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #3
Very good question Crow. The power of manipulation is quite high. The USA is very convincing in persuading others to follow their tack. Poland has dropped itself in it by incurring the wrath of Putin&Co. Noises were made b4 the missile shield deal was done and threats were left unheeded. Poland will now have to hope that Putin is bluffing. OK, the US will jump to Poland's rescue in the event of a Russian attack, but the damage will already have been done. I don't think it will come to that.
dcchris 8 | 432  
15 Sep 2008 /  #4
the US will jump to Poland's rescue in the event of a Russian attack

hmm thats what they thought about france and england before the start of the invasion by the nazis... theres no oil in poland as well although I do agree I dont think it will come to that but things are becoming more and more interesting in ukraine with the snap election coming up
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #5
Well, u r right. I was just interpreting a NATO provision of international law, which makes it prime pickings for being violated for being just that.

The Americans and others have an obligation to help out
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,436  
15 Sep 2008 /  #6
OK, the US will jump to Poland's rescue in the event of a Russian attack,

Well...the NATO isn't only the US and in case of an attack on Poland the US will be not the first coming to aid...think logistically...it will be Germany! :):):)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #7
And what form do you see that aid taking BB?
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,436  
15 Sep 2008 /  #8
Erm...Bundeswehr??? Stop laughing! They are not that bad...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #9
How BB? Russia hits Poland with a massive barrage of rockets. What would Germany DO? Organise a summit? Slap Russia on the wrist? LOL
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,436  
15 Sep 2008 /  #10
I think when rockets fly the time for summits is over...
On the other hand what do you expect the US to do?
(I think we can safely assume that the missile shield will not be really helpful)
dcchris 8 | 432  
15 Sep 2008 /  #11
well the way it was explained to me is that the polish dont want the missles as much as some us soldiers along with the missles than they believe that if poland is attacked the us will have to protect its soldiers... which may consist of nothing more than airlifting them to a safer place
celinski 31 | 1,258  
15 Sep 2008 /  #12
I was just interpreting a NATO provision of international law,

Don't forget US/Poland have a deal along with missile shield that states they will aid one another if attacked.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,436  
15 Sep 2008 /  #13
Well...back to the beginning!
The US isn't at hand from the start...actually it's a crap deal. Neither can Poland somehow "save" the US (nor is it expected from her) nor will the US be the only NATO member in the near should an attack at Poland happen.

And the US public will ask why should we, let the europeans handle that...
dcchris 8 | 432  
15 Sep 2008 /  #14
Don't forget US/Poland have a deal along with missile shield that states they will aid one another if attacked.

so what happens if poland gets attacked and the us does nothing? does poland sue them or something? that deal means absolutey nothing
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,436  
15 Sep 2008 /  #15
That deal is "crap", sorry...as crap as the shield is!
dcchris 8 | 432  
15 Sep 2008 /  #16
anyway there is a good chance this missle thing wont even happen with the new administration coming in. look at the nuclear deal with india and all the hoopla about that...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #17
Now we are getting there, exactly what I was driving at from the outset. Deals can be struck but u have to look at history. Sorry Celinski, I don't want to attack America, but it has a poor track record of abiding by international law. I could cite numerous examples but I won't. We all know them.

BB and dcchris are right on the money here.

Oh, I don't recall getting my referendum papers to decide on this issue. Nobody has. An issue of this magnitude demands one, at the very least a national poll to ascertain public opinion.

To think that the signatures of a couple of buffoons decides our fate is mindblowing for me. Russia say they will attack, USA promise to defend, don't you see a picture emerging? Maybe we should change the paint a little? Or will black and white suffice?
Franek 8 | 271  
15 Sep 2008 /  #18
Well...back to the beginning!
The US isn't at hand from the start...actually it's a crap deal. Neither can Poland somehow "save" the US (nor is it expected from her) nor will the US be the only NATO member in the near should an attack at Poland happen.
And the US public will ask why should we, let the europeans handle that...

As a loyal patriotic American, I can only agree with the above view..Every point made in there makes sense..

By time America reacted it would be all over for Poland
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #19
Exactly Franek, as I said above, the damage will already have been done. The decisions of the few jeopardise the safety of the many. It's a tragic irony that this issue is about safety.
OP Crow 139 | 8,312  
15 Sep 2008 /  #20
The Americans and others have an obligation to help out

USA to help Poland? let us speak serious... From long time ago is obvilous that USA does not have mission to save world but to exploit it to the maximum

also, i can imagine how some Obama looking USA president or representatives such is Condolezza trying to `motivate` Poles against Russians. i telling to you man, it would be mission impossible. Poles aren`t that stupid, no matter all Russian idiotism presented on Slavic West throughout history. So, NATO would collapse faster then you can imagine

you don`t believe me?

he, go send Obama to convince Poles that Russians are ugly black Buzantines who deserve to be nuked... hahah ahahah ahahah ha mamaha mahaha
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #21
It doesn't detract from the fact they still have an obligation to come to Poland's aid, Crow.

They are out to exploit, I agree in part. I meant intervention, as agreed in the missile shield deal.

Obama has no such agenda. Poles are not under the misapprehension that they could harm Russia.
southern 75 | 7,096  
15 Sep 2008 /  #22
USA tries to throw against Russia whatever it has.Are they former disapointed allies,are they mujas,are they Albos etc,or georgian madmen,everyone can be used to hit Russia.
OP Crow 139 | 8,312  
15 Sep 2008 /  #23
It doesn't detract from the fact they still have an obligation to come to Poland's aid, Crow.

what about Serbian obligation to aid Poles?

what about Polish obligation to aid Serbians?

if you don`t know answers, you don`t understand how functioning Slavic world from the beggining of time... When you become aware of that, you would found that NATO does not have future in Poland and that non-visible bonds which exist in Slavic world can do much more for Polish security then NATO (foreigners) ever can do. It`s simple as that
southern 75 | 7,096  
15 Sep 2008 /  #24
The US will not strike back in Poland.The US does not give a sh1t about Poland.They will attack Caucasus and the regions of Russia rich in oil using Poland as the sacrificed sheep.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #25
Cite me treaty provisions showing such obligations Crow.

I don't claim to understand the functioning of the Slavic world, Crow. It doesn't matter, I know that Tusk signed a deal which raised more than eyebrows and has pledged to cooperate with the US on certain matters.

All power 2 ya for advancing ur Pan-Slavic Alliance. So, Serbia would beef up the security of Poland? They'd divert Russia off course?

Come on man, some concrete proposals rather than slogans and verbiage.
OP Crow 139 | 8,312  
15 Sep 2008 /  #26
The US will not strike back in Poland.The US does not give a sh1t about Poland.They will attack Caucasus and the regions of Russia rich in oil using Poland as the sacrificed sheep.

but, don`t underestimate effects of `Russian nuclear respond on the targets on Slavic ground` which would USA/EU seek to provoke

this way or another, it would be end of Slavic world. That would destroy Slavic solidarity on the long run

and as always, hostile non-Slavs would be only winners and Slavs only loosers

Cite me treaty provisions showing such obligations Crow.

I don't claim to understand the functioning of the Slavic world, Crow.

enough said
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2008 /  #27
I see what u r saying Crow. Slavic solidarity has already been dealt several blows tho. Nobody in power has a Slav eradication regime, relax
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
15 Sep 2008 /  #28
OK, the US will jump to Poland's rescue in the event of a Russian attack, but the damage will already have been done. I don't think it will come to that.

I don't think that the possibility of a real open attack is even being taken under consideration. Not in today’s day and age. Russia may use it's force with impunity against Georgia or other countries from Caucasus, but Poland has rooted itself too much in consciousness of the western world in the last 20 years to be attacked without any consequences for Russia on the international scene.

Signing the anti-missile deal is just a logical prolongation of Polish foreign politics after regaining independence in 1989. All the people who say that Russia of today is a totally different country that it used to be prior to 89' forget that the dismantling of the USSR wasn't an outcome of some mental revolution among the soviet political elites but rather a pragmatic step to rescue what was left from that giant on clay feet CCCP was. It was a necessity.

Polish political elites were perfectly aware of that it doesn't have to be the end and that once Russia gets back on it's feet it may want to get back at former status quo. Thus it's primary objective in this new situation was to establish as closed knit relationship with another major player on the international stage as it is possible. Putting elements of anti-missile shield on polish soil is just that. The anti missile base won't be able to protect Poland from Russian missiles per see. Nor is it it's purpose to do so. It will just serve as a deterrent.

Russia attacking such a close American ally would force usa to react, as doing nothing would be a major blow for Americas international prestige, which loosing they cant risk. Just like Russia can't risk engaging an open conflict with USA. From that conflict none of them would benefit and the real winner would be China.

Ohh to make a long story short. Although the cold war ended America never stopped to try to permantly strip Russia of it’s “spheres of influence”, whether it was in Yugoslavia or helping former soviet satellites in central and eastern Europe to join NATO. Georgia and Poland seems to be another episodes of that story. The final punch would be taking Ukraine once and for all from Russia’s influence. Russia without Ukraine could never dream of reestablishing it’s position of a major player on an international political arena and a primary thread to the interests of US of A.

Putin openly admitted that the collapse of CCCP was in his eyes the most tragic event in the XXth century and he will continue to try to reestablish Russia’s influence in the regions that once were “closely linked” with CCCP obviously with a vocal disapproval of the countries concerned. ;)
randompal 7 | 306  
15 Sep 2008 /  #29
i would like to ask- Where is Polish interest in global USA schemes?

probably the parasite principle
OP Crow 139 | 8,312  
16 Sep 2008 /  #30
Nobody in power has a Slav eradication regime, relax

is this joke?

Archives - 2005-2009 / News / What Poland has with USA global schemes?Archived