Poland-Turkey Relations, a youtube comment

Greece has 30000$ GDP per capita.For sure it is not in your category.

You are basing your judgement on Feliks Koneczny theory of civilization. I dare to say that Koneczny would be great opponent of Polish membership in the EU. He would say that the EU doesn't share values of Latin civilization. They consist bunch of de-civilized people and according to his theory such status quo cannot stand for long. Such societies will be hijacked by the most active civilization around, currently this is Arabic one. Am I correct? :)

In Brussels, they wear neither burqas nor togas. It's not a Viking thing either - I see no horned helmets around the EU mindermasts.

So let me get this straight, Lithuania which for most of its history was either in the
union with Poland, having basically the same culture, and then a part of Russia and
Soviet Union is Western and Poland is a Slavic civilization country?

You say Romania is Balkan and you divide Mediterranean into Italian, Spanish
and Balkan, so is Bulgaria Balkan or Slavic? Or would you want to make more
sub-divisions into Meditterraean/Balkan and Balkan/Slavic etc. etc.

How about using Ockham's razor and reducing it all to Latin/Western
and Byzantine/Turan ;-)

For sure it is not :))

I said that I don't agree with everything Koneczny said but to say that he would
be a great opponent of Polish membership in the EU is a bit far fetched in my opinion
(especially considering the alternatives to EU that Poland had).


Koneczny would say that EU consists of de-civilized people? That's debatable...
to say the least.


Most fertile and noisy doesn't necessarily mean most active :)

Lithuania is probably slavic.


Yes.With german infrastructure.Basically the history mixed the trends.Let's say if a civilization was superior or led to any military or cultural superiority,it tended to advance to areas where other civilizations were.That is why there are some centers and some mixed places.Of course english is not the same with german or scandinavian civilization although they both belong to western sharing certain common features.


Balkan.Slavic took three forms.One eastern slavic influenced by Tatars etc,one western slavic influenced by Germans and one south slavic influenced by Turks.So in Bulgaria there is probably slavic civilization of the balkan kind.


It does not make sense to me.For me genes,languages,areas and civilizations are connected.Certain genes produce certain civilizations and languages in certain areas.

Well, that's certainly an interesting point of view. Personally, I don't think that
civilizations are that much determined by genes, so I guess we'll have to agree
to disagree on that one.

so, even if it was self serving then that is all that matters?

The concept of Latin civilization was based on Christian values, less and less popular in Europe. While those EU bureaucrats push for rejection of these values by their actions.

Koneczny was all for economic liberalism, while the EU is disgustingly socialist. Characteristic for Latin civilization balance between public and private law is flawed in favour of public law. Koneczny attributed such features to Byzantine civilization. While you seems to use this as an excuse to divide Slavs. Don't you think that this is not an issue any more?

Also protagonists of the EU (I mean ideology behind it) would hardly admit that they share the same values that Feliks Koneczny did. This is because they do not.


Many people who researched civilization science agree that more mobile civilization despite being more primitive can "win" a clash with more advanced, however passive and demoralized civilization.


This would be purely biological explanation. You cannot deny that they are people of exotic ethnicity that with time got absorbed by western civilization. This is more a question of one's intellectual capabilities and influence of society that surround such person.

That's true to some extent when it comes to bureaucrats and a part of ruling "elites"
but when it comes to societies at large, then I believe that Western Europe is still
based on Christian values in their approach to social life, politics and morality.


So, let me get this straight - you really believe that Poland and Russia, for example,
belong to the very same universal Slavic civilization? I'm not trying to "divide" Slavs.
I'm just making a distinction, based not only on Koneczny's works, but also on modern
experience of people who lived in both Poland and Russia. I'm not saying that
Byzantine/Turan civilization is worse than ours, it's simply different.


I never said that I share the same values that Feliks Koneczny did. I simply
consider the distiction between civilizations that he made quite appropriate.

In many part of Europe this is very questionable.


No, pan-Slavism is just romantic delusion. Koneczny considered Russia (including eastern Ukraine and Belarus) to be part of Turan civilization, unlike other Christian Orthodox countries which he included to Byzantine civilization. I (as well as Koneczny ) do see superiority of Latin civilization, at least in its glory days. The same about superiority of Byzantine over Turan. One could just wonder whether values on these territories changed for better.


Koneczny considered Germany to be part of Byzantine civilization , would you exclude them from possible 'alliances' as well?


Koneczny shared values of Latin civilization according his own theory that you raised here. While you write that you don't share the same values. Do you consider yourself to be part of some other civilization? :)

I never said that alliances between different civilizations are impossible. If Turkey
enters EU, which I hope will happen, then we will have a Turan civilization
country among us. Besides, you have to admit that Germany today are
quite different than Germany under Bismarck that Koneczny was talking about.


A quote from Wikipedia:

"Polish historian Janusz Tazbir describes Feliks Koneczny as a dedicated
antisemite, who looked for Jewish conspiracies wherever he could.
Koneczny was one of the chief proponents of a theory that Jewish civilization
threatened entire Latin-Christian world"

Anti-semitism (or any other kind or racism in fact) is in my view drastically against
Christian values of Latin civilization, which as a Roman-catholic I share.


As a Pole, I am from birth a member of Latin civilization.

Yes, and it was stopped at the Rhine


...if Germans didn't became latinized because they fighted it how come the Poles are?

And how is Germany "byzantine"???

Germanicus conquered the Germans, didn't he?

Not "is" but "was" in Bismark times according to Koneczny: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feliks_Koneczny

No, he didn't. Germans stopped mighty Rome! :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest

Germanicus later gathered banner from the lost legions banner to bring them (at least) back home...


Hmm....something doesn't add up here.

K. says:


But it was Bismarck for example who fighted to get the churchs out of the state, to separate church from education etc. (May laws!).
The catholic encyclopedia even coined it "Kulturkampf"...and the Poles in Prussia were dead set against it!

If latin civilization means a secular society, deeply catholic Poland is not the first country which springs to mind...much rather protestant Prussia where religion never was that important (invitations to settle and work to Jews, french Hugenottes etc.)

Don't forget Gaius Marius, BB :)

absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Gaius_Marius

Ach...that was long before...100BC and such...

Ohh ohh I know I know...



:)

You have wrote that you reject idea of eventual Slavic union because different Slavic states belong to different civilizations. While on other hand you support the EU despite that members and future members also belong to different civilizations.


Yeah, more and more German men are metrosexuals, I think Bismarck would be devastated... Should I recognize this development to be progress or not? :)


Janusz Tazbir is a person of Jewish origin who is 'very sensitive' on this subject, he wrote several books about fate of Jews. He actually think that people of Jewish origin are afraid to admit their heritage because this could affect their carrier. I disagree with this opinion.

While the biggest crime of Koneczny was that he also wrote a book about Jewish civilization. What is more he considered Latin civilization to be superior. In today's PC crazy world this is unforgettable crime. I'm sure that even leftists that always declare to be so much in favour of separation of the church and the state (btw, so was Koneczny) would cry loud that sacral Jewish civilization is at least equal to secular Latin civilization. Or the times changed and today they switched their blind love to "oppressed" Palestinians? While the Jews are the new National Socialists :)

Anyway, were did Koneczny wrote that anti-Semitism is one of the values of Latin civilization? One could disagree with his claims but to put a label just to exclude from public debate, this is pure Michnikowszczyzna.

Another issue is that I find it strange that you declare to be Roman Catholic and admit that Brussels leadership does not share your values, while you still support Polish membership. Perhaps you have some brilliant idea how to take control over the EU? :)

Here I have to agree!
He wouldn't recognize his Germany...


After Sokrates and co. took over Germany I don't see what should stop them?

I said that it is more beneficial for Poland to be in the EU with all other Latin
civilization countries (even if at some point in the future we'd have members
from different civilizations) than within some kind of enigmatic Slavic Union,
which anyway would most likely be dominated by Russia.


Well, we certainly won't have any chances of "taking control" (or at least trying
to make some changes and voicing our concerns) if we remain outside the EU.
So, if you look at it from this point of view, it makes more sense to be inside.

It would make sense if there would be some plan and enough influence to push it forward. However let not be naive, there is no such plan and our own supposed representatives think only about their high salaries in the EU institutions. There is transfer of competences from states to Brussels's unelected bureaucrats with quite pathetic ideological background.

The only hope is that greedy bureaucrats will choke by enlargements. So yes, let bring Turkey in and more. Better crush the EU by political deadlock than let them to ruin this continent by central planning.