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Poland and her geo-strategic enviroment


Crow 146 | 9,106  
17 Aug 2007 /  #1
What first coming to your mind when you see this title- Poland and her geo-strategic enviroment ... maybe?... key political questions of modern world which affect (or could affect) Poland and Polish immigration, dirrection of Polish society (past, modern time, future), mega trends, echoes of Polish political moves, economic questions, security, alliances, global market, neigberhood, etc, etc, etc.

Somebody can say- Why all those questions in one thread? It`s simply. You can`t analize one political event separately from another (causal relation). You can`t analize future mega trends without taking in consideration history. After all, Poland isn`t isolate island on political map of world.

I believe that this thread potentialy can motivate people on interesting debate.

So, what people hire say?

All right, I would offer you one article, which can be anlized from many different angles.

The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
By Samuel P. Huntington

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/clashofcivilizations.htm

Clash of Civilizations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations

List of civilizations...
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385  
17 Aug 2007 /  #2
It's all too deep for me. Too much thinking involved.
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
17 Aug 2007 /  #3
and too much reading during my lunch break on a Friday ! I'm going back to internet games
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
17 Aug 2007 /  #4
A brief response now: Poland is/has been caught in a vice in the last centuries between
the power of Russia & the power of Germany...it has also been victim to the combustibility of the Jews, who, for the most part, felt they were seperate from the Polish people & had their own agenda...the Western Powers, UK, France & the US always paid lip service to the Polish people, but when push came to shove, sold them off

like you would a used car...Poland must look inward for it's strength and revitalization,
and make careful, tactical agreements with other European countries that can be useful
to it...I feel some kind of understanding should be reached with Putin, because the Russian people have been used in many of the same ways that the Poles have...be careful with the US; say no to the missile bases, but maintain a cordial relation...Kaczynski has done as well as he could with the EU up to now, but he is a bit

deceived if he trusts George W. Bush...in real terms, Kaczynski could also use some better PR, since he seems to alienate Polish youth, and they are the key to the future.
magda09 1 | 54  
17 Aug 2007 /  #5
why think so negative about world and life? :s ... think something better, that can also be truth of the future...
PeterCpt 2 | 37  
13 Sep 2007 /  #6
Poland must look inward for it's strength and revitalization, and make careful, tactical

I don't believe anyone sold Poland out. In WW2 Poland managed one key victory. That was to get the Western Allies into the war. Poland held out long enough to get France and Britain to declare war on Germany as per the pact Beck had setup among those 3 nations. German plans were really to expand eastwards and not westward, Germany was not a threat to Western Europe (Britain and France). Hitler did not want a war with Britain and France. On the other hand Stalin wanted Germany to weaken herself on Poland so that he could move in and crush Germany and have both Poland and Germany for himself - then the rest of Europe. Suffice to say Germany did not wear herself out (too much) on Poland as the Polish armies were ordered to retreat strategically in most cases (ultimately to the West), or to disband and form the AK. You could also say that Hitler was also in an unwinnable situation. He could only attack the USSR as Stalin was building up his armies to take on Hitler. Hitler's only chance was a swift defeat of the Russians ASAP hopefully on two fronts, hence he declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor to get the Japanese to attack the SU, but they weren't stupid.

However after WW2 no-one expected the West to fight the USSR over Poland.
The West was too scared of Stalin, as the Red Army at that stage (1944 onwards) was
unstopabble and had they tried, Western Europe would be speaking Russian now.

So yes Poland has to be careful and needs to make alliences with more distant countries
as I wouldn't trust either the Germans or the Sov.... ahem Russians.
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
20 Dec 2007 /  #7
Crow wrote:
Slobodan Milošević

You burn them my friend.

brothers need it. They need us even more then we need them.

It is indicative to me that Poles are so bad informed about events on Balkan (take it just for example). I would remind you on Huntington`s- Clash of civilizations. Huntington categorized Poland completely inside of borders of Western world/civilization (by his words) and he mentioned that parallely should exist Slavic civilization. So, why Huntington insisted that Poland can`t be part of Slavic civilization.

If I am part of Polish intelligentsia I would take this statement (of one `eminent` geo-strategic expert) as serious warning on even possible preparation for possible destruction/new division/split of Poland. That`s why Poles are bad informed. They are directed. It maybe already started

But that won`t pass, Racowie are here, again
lesser 4 | 1,311  
20 Dec 2007 /  #8
It is indicative to me that Poles are so bad informed about events on Balkan (take it just for example). I would remind you on Huntington`s- Clash of civilizations. Huntington categorized Poland completely inside of borders of Western world/civilization (by his words) and he mentioned that parallely should exist Slavic civilization. So, why Huntington insisted that Poland can`t be part of Slavic civilization.

If you read Huntington, I'm sure that you will find interesting professor Feliks Koneczny views on civilizational subject. Whether Slavs belong to one civilization or not! :)

sci.pam.szczecin.pl/~fasting/files/download/Koneczny/strona.htm
southern 75 | 7,096  
20 Dec 2007 /  #9
This is a map based on religions,not tribes.For example all orthodox countries get the same colour regradless if they are slavic or not.

All muslim countres the same.
Countries with hinduism as a religion.
Countries with buddhism as religion.
Countries with sindhoism as religion.
Catholic America vs multi-religious America.
Catholic and protestant countries in Europe together.

I would prefer a division into germanic,slavic,mediteranean civilization in Europe.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
20 Dec 2007 /  #10
germanic,slavic,mediteranean civilization

Hey, what about Celtic, Basque, Finno-Ugric amongst that list?

There are so many variables that every country is somehow different.
Where A may be similar to B, A might share things with C that A doesn't.
Then D comes along.
Keep throwing more into the mix until you've got about 200 of them,
then look at how A is not always the same as A.
Hmmmm.
southern 75 | 7,096  
20 Dec 2007 /  #11
Hey, what about Celtic, Basque, Finno-Ugric amongst that list?

If you add them,you will cause confusion because they represent minorities and were influenced by the others.It takes away the big picture.Do you agree with the concept of Mitteleuropa or do you prefer panslavism?Or do you accpet the differentiation West-East refusing panslavism and Mitteleuropa?
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
20 Dec 2007 /  #12
Thank you for link.

very interesting thinking by Koneczny ...

This has made Koneczny generous-minded towards Protestants. He sees in them, not dissenters from the Catholic fold but Western Christians who, in ceasing to be Catholics, have continued to be Western, fortunately for the West and for themselves. The same standpoint has made it difficult for Koneczny to appreciate Eastern Orthodox, Monophysite, and Nestorian Christianity and the non-Christian higher religions. He appreciates Ancient Rome perhaps excessively, to the detriment of Ancient Greece. And he is hard on both the Byzantine and the Turanian (i.e. the Eurasian nomad) civilization. He classifies the civilization of Muscovite Russia as being Turanian; but, if Russia had been classified by him as being Byzantine, she probably would not have fared much better.

Good to know that Polish intelligentsia does not sleep. Ideas which goes in direction of Christian re-union are in trend. Opposition to Huntington views strengthen
lesser 4 | 1,311  
21 Dec 2007 /  #13
And he is hard on both the Byzantine and the Turanian (i.e. the Eurasian nomad) civilization.

Ideas which goes in direction of Christian re-union are in trend.

Among others his major problem with Byzantine civilization is lack of separation of the church and the state. He claims that in this civilization the state control the church and use to its particular interests.
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
21 Dec 2007 /  #14
Imagine this in geo-strategic environment...

Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > U.S.
Thursday, December 20, 2007
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

WASHINGTON — The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

There is no any debt, history accelerates
southern 75 | 7,096  
21 Dec 2007 /  #15
There is no any debt, history accelerates

Did they smoke the pipe of war?

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