Poland boycotts German goods?

They did not so long ago at Ukraine and Czech republic, that ought to give you a massive "WTF are we doing ?" apparently you did not.


I would gladly shoot these frackers but i am a lowly citizen, if we were smart we'd strike a deal with Norway before Nord-Stream, now its water under the bridge.

Russia already used energy as a weapon twice, in Ukraine and Czech, what makes you think you'll get any other treatment if you say "no" to some untenable russian demand in the future.

Because it was rather a case of Ukraine not paying their due and keeping the gas what was meant for western Europe (Germany too) if I remember correctly...

(And remembering the screeching twins of that times in Poland the idea not to be dependent on you did sound good somehow)


As I said, Russians were always smart enough NEVER to use their gas as a weapon, not even at the height of the Cold war as even nukes were considered!

And they won't do it now neither.
Without the money from their clients in the west and the following isolation folllowing a break of the treaties they would be dead meat and they KNOW that!

We would somehow survive as economies - they would not!

Actually no, it was a case of Ukraine not receiving the gas they already paid for and thus using up the stuff meant for us.


They. Just. Did. Also Europe apparently lacks imagination to project a common policy of isolation so Russia can safely **** on any single or several european countries without fear of being ostracised.

No...it was a matter of not paying...the prices had gone up and Ukraine didn't want to pay...

*goes looking to confirm brain*

Let's see what Wiki has to say:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia-Ukraine_gas_dispute


Huh?

Czechs were cuted last time... our rafinery in Lithuania has problems with supplies and we must buy it from Arabs.

Anny way, we need serious discussion about Nord Stream. It is our national seciurity. We have send several proposals and they were rejected.

Thats another thing, Russia bumped the prices as a means of political reprisal, seriously if Russia was a stable and responsible business partner i'd kill for us to have a part in their gas line.

False! You GOT several possibilites offered to take part, YOU rejected!

The way it sounds from the polish site you like to use the pipeline as a kind of hostage against the Russians AND the Germans!


Nope...


And Ukraine didn't wanted to pay market prices...because:


Of course Ukraine wanted to pay further only the heavily subsidized prices and not the market prices, understandable.
But also understandable that Russia said "Njet!"
Either you are an independent country or not...

Now imagine that:


Gas was cheaper in Ukraine which has to import it but in Russia who exports it???
Don't sell me the "pooor abused Ukrainians"...

But Russia isn't dependable/responsible in that respect, so Poland (like the rest of us) must become independent from oil/natural gas. Then they (the energy merchants) can't use oil/gas or lack of it for leverage!

I don't know if after discussion about paganism we should go into details. I think that Germany and Poland should start to think in common eu interests because it will be good for both. If you build this pipe line as it is planed. Poland will be in russian hands and it is not in long term german interest. However Tusk has done a lot to find solution and there was no answers. we will se what is going to happen now because russia officialy has changed. and czechs had problems with gas (shortly but it is fact that russians used it as political tool of persfasion)

anny way we will see!!!

Of course!

But it will take us another 20/50 years and till then energy suckers like China and India are on the march and grow and the resources will get scarce

...the next years will be tough!


There is no discussion with you about Paganism, there never was!
You have no idea about this topic...


Remember?

They sold gas and oil to other eastern block countries in subsidized prices.

And we all need energy to run our countries, produce goods, distribute them....I don't know how we solve this problem so quickly.

They delivered to the West too...they never cut the west off...they could have!


WE DO ALREADY in securing another pipeline for gas for Europe (it's not only Germany getting their gas from the future NordStream)

Yessir, in fact domestic gas is more expensive in Russia than abroad because of the agressive export policy, russian economy is not diverse, it depends on exporting natural resources, take those away and russian economy collapses, therefore they export these natural resources at the expense of domestic needs.

As for Ukraine there was a deal concerning the market prices, it was supposed to begin either now or in 2009, Russia hastened this as a means of political leverage thus using energy as a weapon.

As for cold war, Russia cut Berlin off from food, energy, water and all other basics for an entire year hence the massive airlift effort by the allies.

Just a reminder about something ski, don't forget that the Bible (New Test.) forbids you to study or read astrology too. Naughty Aquarius!
Go home and say your prayers before it is too late! :)

That had nothing to do with Pipelines...


Actually supports my belief that the treaties and the gas coming through the NordStream will be delivered, regardless the political problems!

Yes it does, Russia in the past readily used all available resources as weapons, and today's goverment comes directly from these people, Putin for example was a KGB officer in eastern Berlin.


It would if Russia followed a rational path in international affairs, it does not. Russian diplomacy and politics are ruled by deeply unhealthy ambitions making them quite unpredictable and dangerous.

No it does not, the matter of West-Berlin was a power struggle between the once-allies and future-enemies of the cold war. It started here...and stilll Russia later delivered gas to the west for decades without any problems!


I do think so....but we won't find an agreement here. Agree to disagree?

Bratwurs how to say it Poland in Russian hands isn't in your business ... simple as sun I do believe that our gov should do whatever it can to change this project.


Okyou have catched me with this aquarius but I don't study astrology but I have some basic knowledge from TV programe (in some way you have catched me, point for you). With this New Test you have made enourmous mistake !!! (no points).

How is Poland in "russian hands"?
And why ask you your arch enemy, a darn German about it???
You boycott german goods, a german is most likely an SS-Satanist and whatever...and now you imply we should care for you??? Get lost man!

Yessir, time will tell though hopefully you're right and i'm wrong because i could kinda get used to peace and prosperity thing.

I totally agree with you here...a cigar? A beer?

Why europe fear Russia, it is not about their still hopeless army (I don't know if they could beat Ukraine) but they have already used gas to make preasure on Czechs and sugested that sanctions on them can cause problems for whole europe. Russia is problem and our politicians should discusse it again ! I strongly believe that this project should be discussed once again. Our PM is opened on discussion and has made several positive gestures ... and what ? .

We central european citizens should secure our interests and but products from honest EU countries

GET LOST !

This pipe line is not in BUSINESS OF ANNY CENTRAL EUROPEAN COUNTRY.

THAT IS WHY EVEN YOUR CITIZENS SUGGEST TO STOP BUYING IMPERIAL PRODUCTS.

Honestly, the Catholic Church is not really better than SS-Satanists, but I don't think to be able t declare that to You. Annother point is that those whom You call pagan-Nazis are using every chance to drive this thread away from it's subject, but You do not recognise.

Sobotka what is politcal climate in germany ? what do people talk about Poland, Russia, what they think gov should do.

How did I lose points? You want me to point to a verse for you?
*makes really big eyes*

Please don't make me do that!